Has anyone here purchased the new Darbee Darblet. It is getting a lot of play over at AVS. It is a video enhancement device that goes between the pj and the source or VP or whatever (last link before the pj). Jeff Meier said it makes a JVC LCOS almost look like a 3 - chip dlp.
umr wrote:
This product does not function like the current detail enhancement circuits or sharpness controls. It appears to alter the local gamma with a variable bandpass logic. It is effective at restoring image sharpness lost from excessive electronic filtering or less than perfect optical systems without the characteristic edge enhancement from older methods. It is also capable of further enhancing the object contrast when the level is action is increased.
With my JVC projector it makes the image look very close to a $50,000 three chip DLP by restoring most of the lost sharpness from a lower system MTF without a significant increase in artifacts. That is easily worth the price of admission with this product for me. I have purchased no other external video processor in the past so I am no huge fan in general of these products, but this is an exception in my opinion.
I looked at it pretty extensively and have significant capability in that area as well. I have been in major post production houses like Sony and Todd-AO and also work for professionals at their home and work who produce films for Delux, Sony, ILM, IMAX.... I have about $40,000 of test gear and custom engineered tools as well that deliver the best results possible.
There are negatives to this product. That is why it is an enhancement I would not use on my Pioneer Elite. The tradeoffs are worth it to me on my JVC projector.
Anything that alters the image going to the display is not providing the source as it was sent to you. What this can do with some projectors is restore some of the lost edge sharpness with little negative impact. Using this with other products with high MTF or using high levels of enhancement will alter the image sent to you. This can be a negative or a positive depending on your desire.
It does not add halos as found with other sharpening tools, but it does alter the image around regions where edges are found to various degrees. The higher the setting chosen the area affected around each edge is increased and the greater the change in signal levels used to increase the contrast. This can dramatically alter the image or more subtly depending on the level chosen. It can also increase the appearance of compression artifacts to various degrees depending on the level of enhancement chosen. From what I saw a low level of enhancement made the image on a JVC projector look about as sharp as a 3 chip DLP without any more increase in image artifacts than that sharper machine would have at showing them in the first place.
Judging from these and other comments, it looks like this could be a nice addition to CRT pjs. The cost is only $250 and AVS has money back guarantee. Any takers? I am looking in your direction Haydn
Link Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 8:15 pm Post subject:
Thanks, Spanky. I hadn't seen this quote from Jeff. IMO, the best-case scenario was:
Quote:
From what I saw a low level of enhancement made the image on a JVC projector look about as sharp as a 3 chip DLP without any more increase in image artifacts than that sharper machine would have at showing them in the first place.
Assuming that what you have is a display device that is film-like (like an LCOS PJ), and you want the enhanced sharpness of a DLP, then that could be a very good thing. Of course, not everyone is looking for that.
The remainder confirmed my expectations, that it's not a panacea and does have it's downsides and limitations. I expect that aspect will be mostly ignored. _________________ - Tim
Link Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 12:26 pm Post subject:
Yes, I received mine about a week ago, but have not installed it yet. Just to make sure that it actually worked I took it over to my daughters and put it on my grandson's LCD that is used almost exclusively for Xbox. I can say that for these games, it really enhances the effective dynamics and he doesn't want me to remove it. Still don't know what it will do to my blend yet with a BD. It is amazing what can be done with a video signal. Whoda thunk it!
Link Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 1:03 pm Post subject:
Boilermaker wrote:
Yes, I received mine about a week ago, but have not installed it yet. Just to make sure that it actually worked I took it over to my daughters and put it on my grandson's LCD that is used almost exclusively for Xbox. I can say that for these games, it really enhances the effective dynamics and he doesn't want me to remove it. Still don't know what it will do to my blend yet with a BD. It is amazing what can be done with a video signal. Whoda thunk it!
Bob
Can't wait to hear your impressions after you manage to cajole your son to give it back !!!
Link Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 2:24 pm Post subject:
Boilermaker wrote:
I received mine about a week ago, but have not installed it yet. ... Still don't know what it will do to my blend yet with a BD.
I'll be very interested in hearing your evaluation, Bob, in the context of a CRT setup. There are some losses in MTF inherent in CRT-based systems, and this may be effective in compensating for those, when used in moderation.
Just a note that most commenting on it in the A-forum are using it in the range of 40-80% (out of 120% max setting). OTOH, when Jeff made note of the improvement he was able to get on his JVC, his settings were in the 5-15% range. I would suspect the usefulness of the Darblet for CRT (without introducing negative side-effects) would be in the same neighborhood. Dependent of course on your particular CRT configuration. [This would be in an adjust-it-once-and-leave-it mode. Rather than dinking around with it on a source-dependent basis, as many are doing.] _________________ - Tim
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 3910 Location: Comedy Central
Link Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 2:34 pm Post subject:
I didn't see where Jeff had mentioned what settings he used. Honestly with the low MTF of CRTs, I would think a lot of people would crank up the setting.
Link Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 2:46 pm Post subject:
Spanky Ham wrote:
I didn't see where Jeff had mentioned what settings he used.
I don't remember or have the link handy to where I saw it, but his comment was that he found it best "at 5/10/15% settings".
Quote:
Honestly with the low MTF of CRTs, I would think a lot of people would crank up the setting.
I was going to suggest that too, but I think its dependent on your CRT. E.g. those running blends don't need nearly as much bandwidth per machine, so the MTF limits wouldn't be as severe as on lower BW or single CRTs. Thus making a 10% setting perhaps adequate. While others may need something closer to 20% or even 30%.
The second factor is that the Darbee enhancement also makes any artifacting in the source more visible. One thing that CRTers enjoy is the fact that they smooth out some of those unnatural elements from our digital source material. At some point, the Darblet will make those artifacts visible enough on CRTs that you'd want to back off. Even Jeff admitted it was a compromise, but one he was willing to make on his JVC (but not his other devices). And he's using it at the very bottom end of its range, even there. _________________ - Tim
Link Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:19 am Post subject:
Boilermaker wrote:
I received mine about a week ago, but have not installed it yet. ...I took it over to my daughters and put it on my grandson's LCD that is used almost exclusively for Xbox. ...he doesn't want me to remove it. Still don't know what it will do to my blend yet with a BD.
So, Bob, any luck getting it back from your grandson, and giving it a spin on your CRTs?
Since Blu-ray has the lowest noise level and inherent artifacting of any source material, that will give you the best shot at recovering the sharpness lost in the scaling process, and the MTF losses inherent in CRTs. And LCOS PJs and CRTs would seem to be the best candidates for this, because of their smooth images (and DLP and plasma the worst, because they're already very sharp). _________________ - Tim
Link Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:08 pm Post subject:
Rich Harkness on the A-forum got a Darblet recently, and commented extensively on his experiences using it with an RS55 PJ, like Kal is considering. Especially interesting to me was his comparison to the 4K-eshift + MPC processing on the JVC. Some highlights of his commentary were:
~~
"...the effect is to sharpen up the image and along with that increase the sense of dimensionality in doing so, but pushing the settings too high can start to make the image look obviously enhanced... I stuck with the HiDef mode, mostly around 35 to 50. Even at a setting of 30, when I A/B the image it looks like, as others have said, a scrim of softness is removed from the image with the Darblet engaged. Clearer detail, like putting a better lens on the image.
I own the JVC RS55 projector, which does an optical/processing trick of increasing pixel count to 4K, and then offers it's own level of processing to further increase sharpness and dimensionality. The processing seems to do something similar to the Darblet: some sort of playing with gamma or contrast at fine levels, to bring out visible detail, sharpness etc. Putting the MPC levels at +3 really does subtly but distinctly make the image look more dimensional and sharper, like you can see all the way into the background for fine detail.
As I turned up the Darblet and the contrast increased... it started looking pushed, processed, unnatural and more video-like vs film like or real. (In a) worst-case scenario type shot... the Darblet dialed to around 30 or 35 visibly increased image clarity, while not looking too video like. But if I were to take the movie as a whole, I could leave it dialed up higher, say 45 to 60, and in most instances it made the image more detailed and clear without screaming "processing."
[Tim, editorializing: the fallacy here, IMO, is seeing how much processing he could get away with, rather than how little. If "most of the time" it's not screaming processing, then sometimes it is. Sometimes would be too much, for me. But I suspect, as time goes on, both Rich and others will adapt, and tend to back off a bit on their settings.]
In comparison, the JVC RS55 projector's MPC processing was, to my eye, more natural and subtle. Dialing it up increased the perception of image detail, dimensionality etc, but looking directly at details like those nose high-lights, they did not start "burning up" in intensity in any obvious way and didn't seem to alter the integrity of the image as much.
...the real "aha" moment was when I finally tried the JVC's MPC processing in combination with the Darblet. I saw the clarity and detail further increase but WITHOUT the Darblet's cost of the high-lights getting too artificial looking. It was like putting on that final lens when getting my eyes tested that snaps everything into perfect focus. For me this is when the image on my screen really took off. It was just astoundingly clear and sharp, but generally there was very little additional image noise... Movies like Alien still looked quite cinematic, but with a Holy Cow new level of solidity, clarity and dimensionality.
The larger you make any image in relation to a given seated viewing distance, generally image snap and sharpness tends to decline. What is particularly wonderful about introducing the Darblet (along with the MPC processing) is how it allows me to increase the perception of image sharpness/clarity to compensate as the image gets bigger. It was just amazing to re-view scenes from Start Trek (2009), Casino Royal, King Kong, Transformers etc. and see a pin-sharp image of incredible detail at that size. It looks like the clarity I'm used to of smaller image sizes, but retained at any size.
But the enhancement from the Darblet doesn't simply seem to be just "sharper and clearer." The way it seems to achieve it by altering contrast also seems to increase the general sense of, for lack of better words, ANSI "pop" and MTF. It can be pretty dazzling, but again, can walk the line between "real" and "film" depending on one's goal.
I'm extremely happy I purchased one. It adds a wonderful tool to the kit for dialing in my system, and increasing apparent image clarity and quality. Like getting new, better lenses, or somewhat upgrading the projector, but for a ridiculously lower cost. And for someone like me looking to preserve the integrity of the film image while increasing dimensionality and clarity, the combination of the Darblet and the projector's MPC settings is the magic bullet."
~~
It's important to note that while the Darblet doesn't seem to suffer from significant artifacting (when used in moderation) unlike most other enhancers, it does currently have it's own unique set of problems (hopefully correctable). Folks have had serious difficulties with HDCP handshaking, as well as HDMI color-space reporting, that have made installations in a number of configurations problematic.
I could (potentially) see using this at low-levels, to restore some of the lost MTF in a display system like CRT or LCOS. But not using it for its "effect" capabilities, or on displays that are already sharp and detailed. Also, it would have to be something that would work at one setting for all content, and not require constant fiddling based on source material. Otherwise, I'd wind up just turning it off.
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