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Kal's basement Home Theatre/Bar/Brewery build 2.0
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15856
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Phoenixed wrote:
Is your urinal a flush free one? Pops installed one in his game room. Its pretty slick.

Flush free meaning it flushes itself or is waterless? I don't want a waterless one. I'm going for a manual one with a button in the wall.

Here's the one I like:



Link: Toto Wall Mount 0.5 GPF Urinal UT104EV#01 Cotton White

Only $118. It's got a back spud (the feeder pipe goes in the back) so you then put an in-wall flusher with only a button visible. You still need some sort of access panel for service so the button would be in the middle of a stainless plate with 4 screws:



Or it might be low enough to provide access from the crawl space under the steps (not sure - TBD).

Manual flush is fine. I originally thought that an automated system would be cool but they (a) cost a lot more, and (b) many are meant for commercial use only with lots of traffic (at least 30 flushes/day) to keep the battery in it charged as some charge by the action of water movement. 30 flushes/day is more beer than I'm willing to drink. You can get ones that take AA batteries too but now it seems to be getting a bit silly... "Gotta go change the batteries on the urinal!". Wink Keep it simple & mechanical. Less parts to break.

You could argue that a urinal is actually a money saving device. Our regular toilets are reasonably low flush (1.6 gallons per flush or GPH) while many urinals are only 0.5 GPH. Though I suppose we could have simply put in a toilet with dual flush capability too... (not as interesting).

Kal

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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15856
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curt Palme wrote:
Kal, superb work! I like the 'open space' look.

Thanks. Wife and I prefer the 'open space' concept even though I know it doesn't recreate a "perfect" HT environment for audio purposes. Good enough for me. Video will not be affected as the seating/line of sights will be good and everything will be dark. The entire screen wall will be a what's essentially a 30" deep black shadowbox.

Kal

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Curt Palme
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 23733
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, way off topic, but I'm heading to Seattle tomorrow to pick up a Zenith 1200 for $100. Smile Needs a quadrupler, no idea as to tube condition...
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15856
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. So that's what my projector is worth now? Oh well. It gave me MANY years of excellent trouble free service. I still love this thing.

Kal

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please Keep it kal and set it up somewhere, please!!! I hear it has a lot of Special parts in her.
or at least I think it was your PJ.

Nashou

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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15856
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Work on the sub-floor started today... They started laying the platon and the OSB:



All this plywood/OSB/lumber was also passed through a small 4' basement window (not shown is the 1400 lbs of concrete):



Our basement stairs are in two parts with a turn. It's pain getting ONE 8x4' sheet down the stairs without gouging the walls, not to mention 50. Just wait until drywall!

Radon mitigation (Radon is known to cause lung cancer and is most prevalent in basement areas as it seeps through the floor):

Last week I spent an hour or two sealing any hairline cracks in the concrete with cement polyurethane product. Today I filled the I-beam support pillars with expanding foam. $20 total to help (just in case). The cracks between the concrete floor and wall pour will get filled with the closed cell spray foam that will be used to replace the R12 fiberglass insulation in there now. It's shame to pull it out but a lot of it's going to have to come out anyway for electrical work. We had condensation problems up in the rim joist areas this last winter/spring so I really want to seal it all up well with sprayfoam insulation and be done with.

While (generally speaking) Radon in not a known issue around my neighborhood, every house is different. I feel it's better to be safe than sorry given the amount of time I spend in the basement. One $5 tube of concrete caulk and an $8 bottle of expanding foam plus 1 hour of work was all that was needed on my part. Helps me feel like I'm actually part of this construction as well. Wink

A few months ago I also purchased this Radon detector:

.

I've been running it in various floors of the house. It's been interesting to see how the levels vary. While for the most part the level seem to be fine, why not do things right... The lower the level, the more likely you are to avoid future issues with lung cancer. I spend enough time in the basement that I thought it was worth looking into/testing.

Kal

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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15856
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
Please Keep it kal and set it up somewhere, please!!! I hear it has a lot of Special parts in her.
or at least I think it was your PJ.

I do. A lot of the boards were specially modified by WTS (walter). They'll go back to him if he wants them.

Kal

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WTS



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1227
Location: Calgary


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose the urinal makes sense for your place, having a built in brewery and all.lol.

Thanks for the offer Kal on the boards but I'm still waiting for Curt to drop by my place and pick up my 1200, which I thought he was going to do in March-hint hint. And it only needs a quad, but if I remember correctly it only has about 3500hrs on it. Makes me wonder what he'll give me for it after reading his post, I think I paid about 6 G for it about the same time you got yours, what was that about 6 years ago now or longer. I agree it still has a great picture but I couldn't fit it into my present house which we moved into 8 months ago.

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WTS



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1227
Location: Calgary


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually I have a spare set of modded video boards and a few of the other boards as I planned on keeping this pj for a long time.

Speaking of radon, I've read both that it can cause cancer and also that a certain amount of it was actually good for you, don't recall were I read that, probably an article on Naturalnews.com.

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Curt Palme
CRT Tech


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 23733
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walter, I haven't forgotten about you and the set, I still have a Sony receiver here for you as well. I may do a run to Grand Forks in the next 2 weeks, I might tied that into a Calgary trip to come see you.

THe 1200 in Seattle was lower than I expected to pay, but yeah, that's typical of the emails that I get. I'm also getting an 1100 hour Runco 1100 for... never mind. Smile I'd expected to go to Seattle for the Runco, the Zenith email was really good timing.

That's the nature of the CRT business at this point though. I might put a quad and tubes into the one from Seattle, but chances are it will get parted out. At $350-400 to get Kal's shipped to me, and guessing that it has wear on the tubes, it's not even worth the shipping price. Kal, for you, if you want to throw yours in the buy'sell section, have at it!

I'd slowed down in stripping sets here for the last 2 weeks, but I'm back at it with a vengeance this weekend.

Sorry, this is way OT, back to Kal's cool renovations....
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15856
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone have any opinions/experiences on beverage centers? We're going to be installing one built in under the bar.
A beverage center is basically a fridge without a freezer that has a glass door, meant for storing beverages. Looks like this:



They run the gamut of pricing from about $300-400 to up over $3000.

Our needs:

- Built in, under counter (this means it has to vent out the bottom).
- Quiet.
- Standard size around ~5 cu foot of space like the one shown above.
- Looking for something with a reasonable amount of quality in the build. I don't want to buy junk.

Reviews are all over the place. The common complaints people seem to have is that with their various units is that (a) they're not cold enough and (b) they are too noisy.

I'm not overly concerned with the temperature thing. Anything 40F or lower is likely fine. We keep our kitchen fridge at the default 38F setting and it's fine. I think some people who complain set their regular fridges to just above freezing (32F) and want their cans of beer to be ice cold and are annoyed that their beverage center won't do the same. These are the bud lite drinkers who don't want to taste their beer. Wink The beverage center will mostly be for pop, white wine, and the occasional bottled beer.

I'm considering the GE Monogram ZDBC240NBS. Picture shown above.

The Monogram is GE's high end line. I'm not sure if it's smart buying the "best" that a somewhat regular company offers like GE, Danby, Frigidaire, MagicChef, etc. Or if it's better to buy the lowest end model from a specialty company (ie: Marvel, Perlick, Sub Zero, Uline, True, Dacor, Miele, etc). My gut feel is that you should buy the lowest end model from a high end company as they're used to building quality components, instead of buying the high end model of some regular company that's just trying to reach into a market segment they're not used to working in. Their units are probably just made to look nice but don't use quality components inside (all window dressing).

Suggestions? We're only putting in one. No need for a separate wine cooler.

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Fri May 04, 2012 1:15 am; edited 2 times in total
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WTS



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1227
Location: Calgary


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curt, no sweat it was just a little prod.

Kal, you sure you want one of those in the same room as you HT, if you could get one with a silent compressor then great but I don't think I've ever heard a new one that was quiet. Well except for the freezer I have in my basement(left by the former owner of the house) which has to be 30 years old. It's a Coop brand, who knows who made it but it works like a charm and is dead quiet, wish my fridge in the kitchen was that quiet. They all start out quiet then in a couple of years the compressor becomes anything but quiet.

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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15856
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's the "same room" but it's 30 feet away and recessed underneath a bar.
Our kitchen fridge is dead silent. I think if you buy something good it's a none-issue, but I want to make sure that we get something that is known to be quiet to begin with since it's basically impossible to get any information on noise levels.

I had a fridge in my old bar that wasn't anything special that I never heard either. It was at least 10 years old and considerably closer to the HT (only 10 feet away).

Kal

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WTS



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1227
Location: Calgary


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn I wish I could find a quiet fidge. Let's see, 12 years ago I bought a top line Kenmore side by side, after a few years anything but quiet. 6 years ago I bought a top line Whirlpool top freezer fridge, after 2 years anything but quiet. Now I have an older but top of the line Maytag side by side and it's not quiet either. It's like a real relief when these things finally shutoff their cooling cycle. Maybe it's just I'm too sensitive or I've had bad luck. I recall talking with a service guy once about these and he said theirs only 2 companies making compressors and they're both bad. ANother thing he said was it doesn't matter if you buy top of the line or not you get the same crap, great.
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15856
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WTS wrote:
...12 years ago I bought a top line Kenmore side by side ...6 years ago I bought a top line Whirlpool ... Now I have an older but top of the line Maytag...

FYI: These brands are all what I'd consider very similar quality level. You have have also inadvertently been buying almost the same thing on the inside and even possibly built using similar or same parts. Often the difference is just the sticker on the outside.

See: http://www.appliance411.com/purchase/make.shtml

Quote:
There are only a limited number a major appliance manufacturers left in the marketplace. Over the years, the big ones have bought up the smaller ones and merged those product designs into their own product lines. They now produce products under the various brand names they own.

Often there is only cosmetic differences in the appearance of the appliance, while the underlying mechanical workings are very similar, if not the same. The manufacturers warranty may also differ between brands and models.


For example, Kenmore is a brand sold by Sears but Sears does not make any of their own appliances. Depending on the model # it may have been made by Whirlpool, who also makes some Maytag items.

To get away from using what's likely a small handful of compressors that they all use (like you mentioned) you may have to go different and buy something from what I'd call a non-standard brand or specialized brand. (Miele, SubZero, Dacor, Thermador, Perlick, Marvel, Liebherr, Fisher & Paykel, etc). Unfortunately most are considerably more expensive as they are luxury brands.

Make sure to keep your coils clean too, a gentle vacuum twice a year or so. It helps keep the compressor from working too hard. Breathing room around the coils is also required if it's not designed as a built-in fridge. I see a lot of people that install fridges not meant to be built-ins as built-ins (especially little under-counter models). That'll kill the fridge faster than normal.

Kal

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WTS



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1227
Location: Calgary


PostLink    Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I'm well aware that most of them are all made under the same roof. The Maytag I have now was not built by Whirlpool at that time. Some of the names you mentioned haven't faired very well from what I've read in the past. Then of course Consumers isn't exactly the bible for appliances, although talking with service people via the internet forum sites over the years doesn't seem to get any better results/ratings either. Kenmore appliances are basically built by who ever wins the bidding war for the new contract.

Yeah I make it a yearly thing to vaccum/blow out the coils/fan etc using my compressor. Most firdges these days or even in the last 10 years or so exhaust the heat out the bottom. Now if I could find a compressor that as quiet as my old freezer that would be perfect.

SO what fridges have you had in the past or present that you consider quiet?

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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WTS wrote:
SO what fridges have you had in the past or present that you consider quiet?

I'm not sure what my old basement bar fridge was (came with the previous house) but it was a regular (non-built in) fridge that was made to look built into the wall but completely exposed at the back (in the furnace room) so any compressor noise wasn't noticed in the HT. Our kitchen fridge in the last house could be heard kicking on and off. It was a KitchenAid SuperBa side-by-side with venting on the bottom, not built-in. Our current kitchen fridge seems dead quiet. It's a built in SubZero with separate compressors for the fridge and freezer & venting on the top.

Kal

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WTS



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Subzero, damn what did that set you back. I recall reading that the Subzero weren't all that reliable and considering what they're worth, I know they aren't cheap, you'd think they would have a better rating.

KitcheAid is made by Whirlpool if I'm not mistaken, our other aplliances are Kitchenaid, so far so good.

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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was definitely not what most would consider an inexpensive fridge. Ratings are a funny thing, especially when it comes to higher priced items as people tend to be a lot fussier. Hard to get any concrete information.

They do seem to look after their customers however. We had a minor issue and support was phenominal. I had emailed them some pictures of the issue and they arranged to have someone come out. When this happened a few weeks later the tech said my pictures had been used in the most recent training course offered by the manufacturer. Wink Stuff happens. To me the most telling thing about a company is what they do when there are issues.

Kal

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WTS



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PostLink    Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh forsure, depends on the source of the ratings. If they have no quams about servicing the product without having to fight with them for every little thing then I agree. But alot of that depends of the company that you buy it from, some will just tell you oh that's not covered just to get out of fixing it, as some Head companies expect the selling company to pick up the tab for minor service problems. It's those type that can become problematic when it comes to getting warranty work done.

Actually I've never even thought to price out SubZero, probably because they are usually bigger than standard openings allow for. Although the next house I build(hopefully in 5 years when I retire) I'll look into that. SO what's the typical side by side SubZero cost - range?

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