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Kal's basement Home Theatre/Bar/Brewery build 2.0
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 1:42 pm    Post subject: Kal's basement Home Theatre/Bar/Brewery build 2.0 Reply with quote


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Hi everyone!

We moved in 2011 so a new basement/bar/brewery was required. After many months, the design has now been finalized and construction starts tomorrow and is expected to take approximately 3 months. We are using a local design/build firm called Just Basements that, as the name would imply, only does basements. Tell Norm that Kal sent you!

October 2013 update: The Just Basements team won first place in the "basement renovation/addition" category at the 2013 Ottawa Housing Design Awards with the work they did on our basement. Congratulations to Norm and his team!


We wanted our new basement to include:

- A brewery
- A front bar with 8 beers on tap and wine storage
- A seating / lounge area with fireplace
- A Home Theatre with seating for six (two rows of three)
- Storage for our movies
- A Bathroom with urinal, shower, toilet
- A Sauna

My wife and I spent considerable time prior to contacting Just Basements, trying to figure out how to how to fit this all this in and not overcrowd things or end up with an odd arrangement. This biggest issue is that our basement has a central staircase which leaves us with a giant "U" shaped area to work with. Try as we might, we weren't able to figure out how to make it all work. Fortunately Just Basements has experience doing this and they were able to make it all fit and work well ergonomically.

The new brewery will use identical equipment and layout as before as documented at TheElectricBrewery.com, but we will have considerably more room to work in and the brewery will be combined with fermentation, conditioning, and serving (my previous basement brewery was only used for wort creation (the sugary liquid that eventually becomes beer). Generally more space for everything, everything in one spot.

The new brewery will hold:

- One large serving keg freezer (keezer) for the 8 beers on tap
- A smaller freezer to hold yeast and hops that will also serve as a glycol chiller for the tap tower
- A conditioning/lagering fridge to store kegs that are waiting to go on tap
- Work tables including a work table to the left of the sink so that I can more easily clean the MLT while boiling (something I didn't have before)
- Grain storage, more storage in general
- Possibly room for future fermentation tanks or conicals

The bar area will be larger than before and include 8 beers on tap, storage for red wine, and a small fridge for white wine and other non-alcoholic drinks.

The Home Theater will be similar to our previous setup seen here). I'll be using mostly the same equipment (for now) other than the projector. It'll likely be a JVC RS46 or RS56 (digital) with a 17'9" throw to put it over the second row of seats. Still deciding between the two. We'll see how much money I have left at the end of all this. Wink

Seating will be the same 2 rows of 3 I used previously (Jaymar 56000 series) with the fronts of the seats at 9' and 16' from the screen. That puts the heads about 11' and 18' from the screen. A 12" high riser will be used for the second row. The screen will remain 96x54".

The sound will be 5.1 like before but I'll pre-wire to do 7.1 for an extra set of side surrounds - just in case. I won't be using conduit for the speaker wire but will be using it for the projector.

There will be a room behind the screen to allow for a possible future 2.35:1 accoustically transparent screen in order to do Constant Image Height (CIH) if I ever choose to go that route. For now the extra wall is nice as it'll help reduce mechanical noise from the furnace/hot water tank/HRV. It will also allow easy access for the wiring.

The Home Theatre equipment rack will be set in the wall behind the screen just outside the bathroom.

DVD/Blu-ray storage will be done by two rows of 7' wide, floor to ceiling shelves shown in the pictures below between the sauna and the mechnical room (unfinished area).

I'll post pictures as things progress.

DESIGN:











BEFORE:



AFTER:

The photos below not marked as copyright (c) TheElectricBrewery.com are copyright (c) doublespace photography and may not be reproduced or reused without their consent.





































For complete construction details on how we got there, read on!


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Last edited by kal on Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:49 pm; edited 19 times in total
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kal
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TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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-------------

I've also ordered the necessary components for the bar tap setup, which includes:

This T-Tower:



Link: http://hits.micromatic.com/cgi-bin/redir?pd_link=i1-a70238-o2728-c39716&redir=http://www.micromatic.com/draft-keg-beer/towers-pid-METRO-T-8PSSKR.html?affiliateID=70238

I did a lot of research into towers and went through 2 or 3 designs before settling on this T-design mostly for the narrow width. There are many sellers/manufacturers of towers. Most use vinyl line inside the towers for the beer, which I don't like. This one has stainless product lines and copper glycol lines. The beer will only ever be in contact with barrier tubing or stainless. No vinyl at all. The shanks are stainless too (most others are brass). The copper glycol lines mean more efficient cooling of the shanks, though all towers seem to use copper.

The faucet handles have to be ordered separately and can be found here: http://hits.micromatic.com/cgi-bin/redir?pd_link=i1-a70238-o2728-c39716&redir=http://www.micromatic.com/product.aspx?pid=4301-CHP?affiliateID=70238

I won't be using the stainless faucets it comes with. Instead, I'm using forward sealing Perlick faucets for 6 of the faucets:

Link: http://morebeer.com/view_product/6495//Perlick_Faucet_-_Stainless?a_aid=theelectricbrewery

Homebrewers really need to use forward sealing faucets. Normal faucets get gummed up and stick as we don't pour beer 8 hrs/day like bars do. It's not uncommon for bar owners to have to squirt water into their 'regular' taps at the start of the shift to get them unstuck. That problem doesn't exist with these taps. I've been using them since about 2004 and they're fantastic. These Perlicks are stainless as well.

I'm also be adding two stout faucets:



Link: http://hits.micromatic.com/cgi-bin/redir?pd_link=i1-a70238-o2728-c39716&redir=http://www.micromatic.com/draft-keg-beer/taps-faucets-pid-JESF-4.html?affiliateID=70238

These are also stainless. Micromatic seems to have the only stainless (not chrome) stout faucets available. Stout faucets, by the nature of their design, are already 'forward sealing' so sticking shouldn't be a problem.

These faucets will be used to serve something that mimics somewhat flat english style beer. Think Boddingtons or an ESB with a nice creamy head, or of course, Guinness. You basically keg the beer flat and then push with a 75/25 blend of Nitrogen/C02 (called beer gas) instead of only C02. The 75/25 blend has so little C02 that it doesn't carbonate the beer over time (which is what we want). The beer will only have the residual carbonation in it from fermentation, but pushing it through the restrictor plate in the stout faucet knocks out most of the remaning C02 and gives the beer a nice creamy (Guinness style) head and next to no carbonic bite. I will need new stout faucets and a regulator + tank (not yet ordered - I can get them locally).

In front of the tower will sit this drip tray with glass rinser:



Link: http://hits.micromatic.com/cgi-bin/redir?pd_link=i1-a70238-o2728-c39716&redir=http://www.micromatic.com/draft-keg-beer/drip-trays-pid-DP-MET-T-24GR.html?affiliateID=70238

Beer pours better in a wet glass and the rinser is also great when someone wants to sample 2-3 beers. You can rinse in between. The added bonus is that the rinser cleans out the drip tray. On my old setup I'd have to get out the brush and scrub the dried beer build-up out of the drip tray once every few weeks. By having a rinser it's easy to clean and will likely happen just by the fact of using it.

The tower is less than 15 feet from the serving keezer so 1/4" ID beer lines (not bigger) are more than adequate. 1/4" ID beer line is good to about 50' so for home use it'll be rare that anyone needs larger diameter beer line. The smaller diameter line the better, as then chilling it is easier too. A trunk line (ie: a bundle of product + 2 glycol lines) like this is going to be used:



Link: http://hits.micromatic.com/cgi-bin/redir?pd_link=i1-a70238-o2728-c39716&redir=http://www.micromatic.com/product.aspx?pid=CDI842?affiliateID=70238

From my research, these guys make the best trunk lines. They're incredibly robust and well sealed to keep in the cool as you run glycol through them continuously.

In my previous setup I used BevSeal product line and made my own trunk line with 4 beer lines and 2 copper glycol lines. That was somewhat of a pain to make and then wrap with pipe insulation. It worked, but the result wasn't pretty. Given all the time and labour required, this time around I want to go with the 'professional' solution. The cost is not that much more.

Speaking of glycol, I don't actually use it - I'll use the same stuff as on my old bar setup which is RV/cottage antifreeze. It's a liquid that you're supposed to pour into your toilets in the RV or cottage for the winter to stop them from freezing. It's drain safe.

My total run is under 15 feet so a container in the serving keezer with a simple little pond pump will be used to recirculate.

The keezer set to above freezing doesn't actually chill the antifreeze enough so a loop of copper will be placed in a freezer that's well below freezing to allow it to chill adequately as it recirculates. This is the same freezer that I'll be using to store hops and yeast. It'll a very small freezer.

This is the pond pump that I used before on my previous setup and will continue to use:



Link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00002N8GS/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=theelectricbrewery-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00002N8GS

Since my line length is only 15' I don't need a massively powerful pond pump. The one above worked fine before with a similar length of 1/4" glycol line plus about 20 feet of copper coil in the freezer. This time I'm going to use bigger 3/8" line so there should be even less restriction. The pump ran for 5+ years straight, 24 hours/day, 365 days a year. That's what they're meant to do. No issues.

To get the antifreeze to and from this freezer, the glycol tubes in the main trunk are cut and spliced to a second line with only the glycol shooting off to a freezer. So I ordered 10 feet of this glycol only trunk line:



Link: http://hits.micromatic.com/cgi-bin/redir?pd_link=i1-a70238-o2728-c39716&redir=http://www.micromatic.com/product.aspx?pid=CDI-GLY-2?affiliateID=70238

Normally bars would use a glycol power pack like this to both chill and pump the glycol:



Link: http://hits.micromatic.com/cgi-bin/redir?pd_link=i1-a70238-o2728-c39716&redir=http://www.micromatic.com/draft-keg-beer/glycol-pid-MMPP4300-SF.html?affiliateID=70238

In my case, the distance between the taps and the kegs was designed to be as short as possible, only about 10-15 feet (one of the design goals of the basement) so a "real" glycol chiller isn't required. I wanted to avoid using a real glycol chiller because:

- They're loud
- They run hot
- They use a lot of power
- They're expensive (around $1000 instead of $40-$100 for a pond pump)

In my case, with a short run I'll be able to use a simple $50 pond pump to push glycol through a 3/8" ID copper coil in the freezer. This is what I did in the old bar setup and it worked very well. So well in fact that in humid months condensation would form on the taps:



This is only a taste of what's to come. I'll be documenting the whole thing with detailed pictures/instructions/etc, similar to what's been done with the previous brewery build for anyone that wants to steal ideas.

-----------

Note: Ordering the products listed above (or any other product) using our links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!

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My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0


Last edited by kal on Tue May 22, 2012 6:40 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Boilermaker



Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 527



PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lookin awesome Kal! It makes me want to get off my ass and move my HT to a large unfinished portion of my basement that I should have done in the beginning.

Got a few suggestions:

1 - Don't sell your Barco.
2 - While it's easy, roughing some conduit for a possible future change back to CRT, and even maybe a blend just in case you change your mind.
3 - Make sure you use PVC for conduit as a steel conduit will act as a filter to high frequencies.


Bob
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ecrabb
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TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lookin' awesome, Kal!

Love the aesthetic in this image - damn near exactly what my current basement would look like if I could have finished it!



Nice work! Good luck with the project!

SC
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boilermaker wrote:
Lookin awesome Kal! It makes me want to get off my ass and move my HT to a large unfinished portion of my basement that I should have done in the beginning.

The basement posed many challenges to getting everything to fit - compromises had to be made:

- I would have like to go wider on the screen wall (bigger screen) but it just isn't possible, so the idea that I could go accoustically transparent was born so that I could put the speakers behind eventually and go bigger. I also like hidden speakers as it gives a nice clean HT.

- The central staircase was the major issue. It's one giant U-shape room around the stairs.

- The duct work is horrible. There's a giant 4x4 foot drop right smack dab where the step up onto the riser is eventually going to go. The duct work (both heating and return) is being completely redone/rerouted through the entire basement. (This is one reason why I hired a pro). In the HT it'll be nicely hidden as bulkheads on either side.

Quote:
2 - While it's easy, roughing some conduit for a possible future change back to CRT, and even maybe a blend just in case you change your mind.

Already in the plans. Hoping for a straight duct right to the project to pull whatever future cabling is required. HDMI for now. You just never know what the future will bring. I'm not installing ducts to the 7.1 speaker points. IMHO not worth it. Using 12ga Home Depot CL2 (in-wall rated) wire, bi-wired which brings it down to about 8ga. My speakers all support bi-wiring.

Quote:
Make sure you use PVC for conduit as a steel conduit will act as a filter to high frequencies.

Good to know. Was going to use PVC anyway. Something like central vac duct or whatever's cheapest.

Kal

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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
Lookin' awesome, Kal!

Love the aesthetic in this image - damn near exactly what my current basement would look like if I could have finished it!



Nice work! Good luck with the project!

SC

Thanks Steve!

Tiles, colours and other things (like furniture) haven't been picked yet but we're going to go with a more modern look, darker colours, stone, wood, etc. I think the words of the day are "linear" and "modern". We want this to look like a Manhattan bar or hotel lounge to some degree. That's the look we're going for.

There's going to be some sort of bumpy wood surrounding the linear fireplace which will be carried over the upper parts of the HT ceiling too. You can see some squares in the picture above on the HT ceiling (the whole upper part of the ceiling will be covered, not just bits). It's done for aesthetics to tie in the fireplace wall with the HT mostly but I suppose it will also have some diffusion properties to it as well.

I'm actually not doing that much about things that would affect the accoustics of the HT. No modelling/measurements were done (a bit hard given the open concept of the basement). Not doing any bass-traps or the like, no batting/Guilford of Maine accoustically transparent wall coverings. I'm not a big fan of the dedicated HT look and know that doing a 'great room' type approach affects HT audio performance.

What I am doing however is a bit of work to keep some of the noise out of the rest of the house, but not much. The open stairwell will have a sliding barn-door style heavy wood door that will usually stay open and decorative. When we want to crank it that can slide it closed temporarily. The ceiling will be filled with insulation but no resilient channel, no room within a room, etc. Just drywall ceiling on strapping nailed to the joists. I don't think we'll even bother with double drywall. In our previous house we had the same but no insulation in the ceiling with an open stairwell and we were fine with it. On the second floor bedrooms you'd simply hear a "rumbling" when a movie was playing and the kids were sleeping. As the kids get older and *THEY* start staying up later than me I may regret this. Wink

I will however be building up the walls around the furnace room a bit to keep mechanical noise out of the HT. That part concerns me more. I don't want to hear mechanical noise when watching a movie. The double wall between the screen and furnace will help. Probably staggered studs on the side wall. The two doors that lead into the furnace room will be solid core. We'll also be using some sort of HVAC dampening. Probably just dynamat on the ducts to increase mass and then insulation around (but probably not inside the ducts). I think that'll be fine. Careful placement of cold air returns and heat vents with largish diffusers will also be used. If for whatever reason I can still hear the furnace after doing all that I can decouple the hot/cold air ducts from the furnace using 2x1' rubber gaskets. Both ducts will be easily accessible in the room behind the screen.

A lot of this is just in my head now and up in the air. We'll see!

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Phoenixed



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PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks awesome. Ever mess with the "Turbo Tap" system?
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PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn Kal. That is hardcore. You are gonna love that basement!
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Boilermaker



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PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm crazier than you are. I would use the entire room (or as much as needed) behind your screen as unfinished and use Stewart's rear projection screen that comes in several differs gains and then be able to put the projector(s) on tables in that area. Just paint ceiling, walls and floor flat black and you can forget about ever needing hush boxes or keystone correction. Ideal for a blend, and you could use that space for mechanical such as HVAC, water heater, etc. You can also easily build your front speakers (including any subs) into the front wall.

I did this in my daughters house a few years ago, and it is really nice as the ambient light is really not nearly as bad as with front projection as she built her bar area in the same room. All you see is a screen and a remote. Also, if you want to build in a REAL sub, it is easy and cheap to do.

But then again, I'm crazy.


Bob


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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phoenixed wrote:
Looks awesome. Ever mess with the "Turbo Tap" system?


I had to Google this and found a good explanation here: http://www.micromatic.com/category.aspx?cid=1897

Looks like some way to reduce foaming when pouring for people who don't know how to pour correctly.

Never used it. Don't see the need to be able to pour beer faster for home use. Wink
Looks like a mess to clean too since the whole thing is submerged.

Kal

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WTS



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PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Kal,

Sounds nice, keep us updated with pictures of your construction. Where does the pool/pingpong table go?

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Phoenixed



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PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Phoenixed wrote:
Looks awesome. Ever mess with the "Turbo Tap" system?


I had to Google this and found a good explanation here: http://www.micromatic.com/category.aspx?cid=1897

Looks like some way to reduce foaming when pouring for people who don't know how to pour correctly.

Never used it. Don't see the need to be able to pour beer faster for home use. Wink
Looks like a mess to clean too since the whole thing is submerged.

Kal


I was just curious with your "home" setup. Looks like its for fizzy yellow beer people and for commercial accounts. Razz

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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WTS wrote:
Sounds nice, keep us updated with pictures of your construction. Where does the pool/pingpong table go?

No pingpong/pool table I'm afraid. Had one at the old house and we barely used it.

Concrete removed today for the shower and toilet plumbing. The existing toilet drain in the pictures is being moved to the right to make room for a urinal.

The shower will be walk-in (flush with the regular bathroom tiled floor) with a linear drain, hence the reason the floor needed to be broken for entire shower area.





Kal

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PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How exciting!!! I miss construction!! I still have the rest of my basement to do and final touches in the theater room.

Cant wait till your done!!!

Athanasios

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PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
The existing toilet drain in the pictures is being moved to the right to make room for a urinal.

Thumbs Up

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Phoenixed



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PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is your urinal a flush free one? Pops installed one in his game room. Its pretty slick.
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WTS



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PostLink    Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A urinal? Wow, you don't see that everyday in homes. Is this going to be the new trend?
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PostLink    Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WTS wrote:
A urinal? Wow, you don't see that everyday in homes. Is this going to be the new trend?


I was suppose to have one in my Master bath but the Tile guys tiled over the pipe location in the wall so I
never put it in. But some day I will.

Athanasios

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Curt Palme
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PostLink    Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal, superb work! I like the 'open space' look.

Can't match the urinal, but I can raise you with two bidets on my top floor. Apparently it was the cool thing to install in 1983 when my place was built. Can't say I've used them, they now serve as magazine storage. Smile
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WTS



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PostLink    Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Nash,

No doubt you thanked the tile guys.lol. I don't know about putting those in my home let alone in my master bath. Some how I don't think my better half would go for that.

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