As some of you may know I was selling a few turntables I had around here, luckily of which they all had no problem selling. I used some of that money to buy a "new (to me)" Pioneer Series 20 PLC-590 turntable. This particular turntable from pioneer comes from the factory with no tonearm/cartridge so the owner can choose what they would like to install on the table.
Well Im pretty much set in getting the Pioneer PA-1000 carbon fiber tonearm for the table (since that is the series 20 tonearm pioneer made for the PLC-590 as an option). So that leaves a cartridge and Stylus.
I have tried pickering, Grado, Shure, Staton, OEMs, of those I would say the Stantons and Shure's were the best, but for this turntable I want something BRAND NEW.
So with all these new manufacturers (or at least high end ones and ones I've never heard of) I am left wondering what brand to choose.
I'm looking for something that can reproduce very deep lows, as well as have detailed highs and an overall full sound from the cartridge. My problem with Grado is the highs were lacking to my ear, and Im very picky when it comes to my vinyl (who in this hobby isn't? )
So within the pricerange of $500-$750 for a NEW cartridge & stylus what would some of you choose? _________________ If it ain't broke, and you try fixing it without success, don't come crying to me!
Link Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:03 pm Post subject:
If Denon go for the DL304. The DL 103 models have their limitations, they all use same cheep stylus. So if you want to track High frequenc clean.. look for the sharpest stylus possible.
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 12825 Location: West Seneca NY
TV/Projector: Marquee 8000, 8500 And a 9500LC RetroIV , 2 Longbow 8500 Ultras(2004!!)Hd145's , Ampro 3600, a G90!!
Link Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:14 pm Post subject:
stridsvognen wrote:
If Denon go for the DL304. The DL 103 models have their limitations, they all use same cheep stylus. So if you want to track High frequenc clean.. look for the sharpest stylus possible.
Good point, however the Sound smith modified version is just as good .
Athanasios _________________ Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"The government can't control the economy without controlling the people" RR
One Smart Dog!!! Tom Bauerle to Andre Cuomo" Elliot Spitzer Screwed some Prostitutes, you screwed the Constitution" On his call to Cuomo to Resign!!!
Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 1438 Location: Fond du Lac, WI
Link Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:42 am Post subject:
Thanks for all the suggestions so far guys. Nashou, I am surprised you mentioned sumiko, I have seen a few of them in the MusicDirect catalog I have, they sound like pretty good cartridges.
As for the Denons, I have read a LOT about the DL-103R, can't say the same for the 304, but its nice to hear that the Denons might be worth checking out.
I'm also glad to hear about ortofon, that Kontrapunkt is the older series that was replaced by their newer series (I forgot what it is) but I read that the kontrapunkt are supposed to be some nice units.
I will research some of these cartridges you have all mentioned, too bad there isnt a place that can do a try before you buy around here!
Liking the suggestions so far!! keep them coming _________________ If it ain't broke, and you try fixing it without success, don't come crying to me!
Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 1438 Location: Fond du Lac, WI
Link Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:44 am Post subject:
Thanks for all the suggestions so far guys. Nashou, I am surprised you mentioned sumiko, I have seen a few of them in the MusicDirect catalog I have, they sound like pretty good cartridges.
As for the Denons, I have read a LOT about the DL-103R, can't say the same for the 304, but its nice to hear that the Denons might be worth checking out.
I'm also glad to hear about ortofon, that Kontrapunkt is the older series that was replaced by their newer series (I forgot what it is) but I read that the kontrapunkt are supposed to be some nice units.
I will research some of these cartridges you have all mentioned, too bad there isnt a place that can do a try before you buy around here!
Liking the suggestions so far!! keep them coming _________________ If it ain't broke, and you try fixing it without success, don't come crying to me!
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 12825 Location: West Seneca NY
TV/Projector: Marquee 8000, 8500 And a 9500LC RetroIV , 2 Longbow 8500 Ultras(2004!!)Hd145's , Ampro 3600, a G90!!
Link Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:58 am Post subject:
If looking at MM carts there is the Acutex STR312 or STR 320 are really nice, but try to find one. they are out of business but the cart bring a premium if you find one. I got lucky and one came on a AR XA I got for 80 bucks. I could sell the cart for 300 !
It actually does well against my DL 110, maybe a better. And this is a MM. I usually don't like them.
Athanasios _________________ Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"The government can't control the economy without controlling the people" RR
One Smart Dog!!! Tom Bauerle to Andre Cuomo" Elliot Spitzer Screwed some Prostitutes, you screwed the Constitution" On his call to Cuomo to Resign!!!
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 12825 Location: West Seneca NY
TV/Projector: Marquee 8000, 8500 And a 9500LC RetroIV , 2 Longbow 8500 Ultras(2004!!)Hd145's , Ampro 3600, a G90!!
Link Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:29 am Post subject:
On Audio Karma I posted about the Acutex and some info on it.
I can't find it but there was a guy on Audiogon forum who is a cart nut. He has done comaprisons on hundreds of carts and he really loves this cart and puts it up against many higher priced MC carts.
But here is the other info.
Nashou66 wrote:
Found some more info on Acutex from the Lenco heaven site.
I named them the bass monsters. Probably coloured but who cares? If I need bass, I call the Acutex. There are some weird things about these cartridges.
I first heard of Acutex when I somehow got a Piezo YM-308 in my hands a couple of years back (I can't remember how). At the time I assumed it was somewhat of a lowly cartridge, probably with a conical tip so I never paid much attention to it. One day I just mounted it for fun and I thought this cartridge was sounding much more interesting than I wrongly assumed. So I tried to get some info about it and found out that Piezo=Azden=Acutex. Azden remained a bit of a mystery but there were bits and scraps of information to be found about Acutex. I believe Acutex was the American brand name of Piezo/Azden.
My info so far as found in different places on the net:
Two series of cartridges of interest: the M3xxIII and the M4xx series. The M3xxIII series I'm talking about are the M310 through the M320 models, not the M306 (conical) and M307 (elliptical) models. I think these are not interchangable with the others. These 2 don't have the tri-pole system but the dual-pole just like the M206, M207 and M208.
Of the M3xxIII series there are two different body versions: the old flat nose (end 70's) and the newer long nose (beginning 80's). The M4xx series only consists of long nose versions. The long nose versions are all LPM, Lowest Possible Mass (what a statement!).
Both series are "Tri-pole Induced Magnetic Systems" with a US patent.
The M3xxIII long nose version has a different stylus mounting than the M4xx series so styli are not interchangeable. I like the M3xxIII mounting over the M4xx because it's much more secure, it feels less flubby. The original flat nose version is even better, it's the best stylus mounting I've ever seen: easy, safe and firm, just the way I like it. The big magnet keeps the stylus in place.
Gold pins on the 315,320 and on the 415/420.
Both series have a stylus range from 1 elliptical to 3 so-called STR (Super Tri Radial??) styli.
M3xxIII series both flat-nose and long-nose models:
310: 0.3x0.7 mil elliptical, aluminium cantilever
312: STR 0.3x1.6x0.6 mil, aluminium cantilever, bonded
315: Perfect STR 0.3x1.6x0.6 mil (selected from 312??, nude??)
320: Perfect Vital STR 0.3x1.6x0.5 mil, titanium cantilever, nude mounted? The 320 has the lowest mass jewel.
M4xx series:
410: probably 0.3x0.7 mil elliptical
412: STR (no stylus dimensions)
415 & 420: Perfect STR (no stylus dimensions)
The M4xx styli have a translucent plastic body, the M3xx have not.
The M3xx series old flat nose style should have a DCR of 610 Ohm.
The M3xx series long nose should have 580 Ohm.
The M4xx series 710 Ohm.
I measured them and it doesn't really add up.
M3xx old flat nose body: 625 & 589 Ohm, in range of stated 610 Ohm
M3xx long nose body: 515 & 515 Ohm (wow!), in range of stated 580 Ohm
M4xx body: ranging from 435 to 460 Ohm, measured with 3 bodies. No way near 710 Ohm as stated in the booklet.
Weird isn't it?
Acutex revised the tracking force for the M3xxIII series long nose to a much higher VTF. For example the M320III: original VTF was 0.4-0.75mg, revised to 1.5-2.3mg. Makes you wonder about the compliance figures. M320III has 42x10-6 cm/dyne. Weird, isn't it?
Some interesting stuff on these. there are some 412 for sale on the au ebay site for 49 euros.
Athanasios
_________________ Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"The government can't control the economy without controlling the people" RR
One Smart Dog!!! Tom Bauerle to Andre Cuomo" Elliot Spitzer Screwed some Prostitutes, you screwed the Constitution" On his call to Cuomo to Resign!!!
Joined: 25 Dec 2009 Posts: 1955 Location: nederland
Link Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:41 am Post subject:
well get them for 50 bucks, seems very interesting and even more if they are up to par with e.g. an expensive ortofon cart.
i might get one too to play around with but i still have a hard time believing they are as good as mc carts. _________________ 1 answer always poses multiple questions.
marquee 9500ultra HD10L moome hdmi1.3 v3+ some mods.
Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 1438 Location: Fond du Lac, WI
Link Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:26 pm Post subject:
Thats quite the read there Nash, and very informative too!
I do have a question regarding moving coil cartridges though. I haven't had the chance to use one mainly for the fact that you need a step up transformer and/or? preamp for them.
Now heres the deal, since I have started putting this system together, the Integrated amp in this system has a switch for moving magnetic cartridges or you can flip it to moving coil. Now, with that do I need a step up transformer still? Or is my preamp able to do that?
I would love to try a MC cartridge, I have had loads of MM ones and wouldn't mind hearing what a MC can do.
And Nash, that Acutex you got on your AR TT for $80, thats how I got my Grado Prestige Gold 1 I sold, it came on a Dual 1225 TT I bought for $15 because the plinth was cracked. Didn't even notice the cartridge on it until I got home!
Thats not the first time I've wound up with higher quality cartridges on low priced tables either, same thing happened with a Pioneer PL-2 I bought, came with a Pickering XSV3000, that was a nice MM cartridge too. _________________ If it ain't broke, and you try fixing it without success, don't come crying to me!
Link Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:44 pm Post subject:
If you really want a top end MC system, then you should go for a high compliant system, and the Denon DL 304 is the entrance to that world, with a SME Series III arm. And personally i'm not a fan of stepup transformers.. Ill always prefer the active stepup solution. And look for a stepup with most load impedance options, its very important to a high compliant system.. A DL304 have a generator impedance around 40ohm, and will perform best loaded around 120 ohm + - some.
If going with a DL103 model.. moddet or not your going into low compliant system, and they are not so sensitive to load, and will never give you the high frequency performance as a high compliant solution.
You need to decide if you like adjusting your setup, to perform, or your more into plug and play solutions.
Sharper stylus and higher compliance = more sensitive system, and your skills will come to the test..
Link Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:11 pm Post subject:
Thats a High output MC pickup, and you will not need the MC stepup. With the Elliptical stylus and the compliance, it should be more or less plug and play.
I'm sure its nice for lots of rock pop records from different periods.
Whats the arm mass of the arm your going to use.? I think this one will work well with a mass around 12-15g _________________ Marquee 8500AC ULTRA.!! Vidikron Vision One.. !! Marquee 9500LC ULTRA HD10E !!! Radiance XS+ Moome V1.3
Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 1438 Location: Fond du Lac, WI
Link Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:53 pm Post subject:
stridsvognen wrote:
Thats a High output MC pickup, and you will not need the MC stepup. With the Elliptical stylus and the compliance, it should be more or less plug and play.
I'm sure its nice for lots of rock pop records from different periods.
Whats the arm mass of the arm your going to use.? I think this one will work well with a mass around 12-15g
Excellent, and as for the arm mass, I am not sure because I don't yet have the tonearm, and my turntable manual does not specify such details for the tonearm (since they have no way of knowing if you intend on using their arm or not). There may be a manual on vinylengine so I'll have to check. Its the Pioneer PA-1000 carbon fiber tonearm.
And Nash, I am glad to hear you enjoyed it. I love jazz on vinyl so this is one I will have to put on the list. Bummer on the bent tip!! I'm going to keep my eye on this cartridge, as well as check out a few others. This may be worth a drive to MN to visit needledoctor so I can demo some of these. _________________ If it ain't broke, and you try fixing it without success, don't come crying to me!
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 12825 Location: West Seneca NY
TV/Projector: Marquee 8000, 8500 And a 9500LC RetroIV , 2 Longbow 8500 Ultras(2004!!)Hd145's , Ampro 3600, a G90!!
Link Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:02 pm Post subject:
The thing I like about Needle Doctor is they have an upgrade program. that is how I got my Evo. I have a blue point SPecial, the upgrade cost me 299. I had the Special for about 3 years before I made the upgrade. Its a used cart but they re tip it with original cantilever and tips.
I can't wait to send it to Sound Smith. They test it all over and will do any repairs they can, and usually make it better than original.
Athanasios _________________ Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"The government can't control the economy without controlling the people" RR
One Smart Dog!!! Tom Bauerle to Andre Cuomo" Elliot Spitzer Screwed some Prostitutes, you screwed the Constitution" On his call to Cuomo to Resign!!!
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Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Especially on Jazz. It does well with all music tho.
