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Anyone know where to get a print wiring diagram for JVC RS40
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RVonse




Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3049



PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:59 am    Post subject: Anyone know where to get a print wiring diagram for JVC RS40 Reply with quote


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I bought a broke JVC RS40 off ebay and lost the gamble. The seller liquidator sounded like it might just be a broke light engine door or a bad lamp. I got the projector yesterday and I'm afraid its going to be more than that. I feel like a big loser today.

Anyway, before I conclude that I wasted my $700 I'd like to at least get a wiring diagram and attempt to troubleshoot the beast. Right now it wont even power up the lamp or fans and you would think something that obvious could be taken care of.

But first I need some kind of print.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator



Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, wow... You bought that thing?!?? I seriously thought about it, too... I started watching it at $400, and figured it would be worth the risk up to the $500-600 ballpark. But, then I figured with that level of physical damage to the case, that the internals could be in really bad shape. I still might have considered, but then I had to buy a new damn washer and dryer - that made the decision easy.

It looks like it sold for $700-something, then got relished and sold again for $800-something... What was the deal with that?

I'd say Mac is your best bet to see if you can get your hands on a service manual.

Man, good luck.

Look at it this way, you can always re-list and probably get most of your money back out of it.

SC
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macgyver655




Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508



PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No prints yet. I was watching that one also. I was thinking 300 bucks and was himing and hawing at that.

Have you tried another known good RS40 bulb?
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RVonse




Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3049



PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No I haven't got another RS40 bulb and they cost $300+. But I seriously doubt its a bulb. There is nothing to the light engine except for just 2 leads to a a mercury vapor bulb. If I knew what the voltage was supposed to be I might try to put that on the bulb and see if it would fire up. The existing bulb shows no sign of fatigue and the machine never even tries to put a significant voltage out to the bulb. Yes, at the first instant of start there is a small spike of voltage out to the bulb but no fans ever come on. Even if the bulb were bad, I'm thinking there would be fans on at least long enough to spool up. When you hit start there is nothing but dead silence. If the light engine door switch is made the binking fault light changes from steady blinks to 4 blinks so I feel confident it is doing what it should.

The outside damage to the unit is purely cosmetic and the inside is perfect still looks like new. Other than a few outside cracks in the plastic this machine looks just like brand new. It looks physically perfect without the skin on it and even with the skin on it, it doesn't look bad. So I feel confident the problems have nothing to do with outside damage.

But here is the real giveaway. Someone else has obviously already been in this thing and has labeled in black marker all the parts that are bad! In particular they wrote "No good" on the small board that feeds all of the fans in the unit. I'm inclined to agree with what they wrote since none of the fans ever come on. Without any fans coming the cpu board probably won't let the light engine fire up. But I'm just guessing. Still no diagram to know how signal flows. The board is fairly small with driver stuff on it so if it is bad probably could be fixed to component level.

So mac, how do you get the diagrams that you do get?
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macgyver655




Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508



PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot more goes on with the lamp then just sending power to it. Also, don't try testing voltage at the lamp connectors. Serious damage can occur.

I get manuals from various places. Meaning free manuals. I checked and a free manual is not available. But that doesn't mean I can't get it. Very Happy

Does the standby led come on when just plugged in?
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24296
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

have you tried the obvious and called JVC? My guess that since these seem pretty reliable, that a local service depot won't have it, but that doesn't mean it's not available.
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RVonse




Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3049



PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just checked with JVC and they want $50 for a wiring diagram! I can still remember a time when GE televisions used to put the wiring schematic right inside the tv or appliance back in the old days. A free schematic for the serviceman! That was back when service was important to a manufacturer I guess.

Do I want to throw away another $50 on this thing? I'm not so sure about that. At least with the projector itself I can junk out the parts and recoup some of the investment.
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macgyver655




Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508



PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can get it much cheaper then that.

Are the leds flashing in any type of sequence.
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RVonse




Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3049



PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just tore the thing apart to see how it layed out. Apparently the main power supply feeds another box which feeds the lamp. I saw that voltage was getting to the lamp power supply so I decided to take the lamp out and hook it up with jump wires direct to the lamp power supply. When I did low and behold the lamp started lighting and fans started to run. But all is still not good because the lamp goes out shortly after the fans start up. The normal sequence is that first the lamp starts glowing a soft blue and then it appears current is cranked up steadily for a couple seconds. During that time the lamp goes from blue to bright white and then the lamp fan starts up. Then the lamp goes out and the fan continues to run in cool down mode.

The lamp power supply is obviously monitoring the bulb because if I unplug the bulb completely I get no fans at all. When I look into the bulb it appears clear without any burn or other abnormality. And the bulb appears very bright for no longer than it is on. But I am still wondering if the feedbock going back to the bulb power supply may be shutting things down.

You would think a worn out bulb would just get dim but perhaps they want to shut everything down for safety. Mac now I am thinking your original concern about the bulb being bad may be valid. Its too bad I don't have another projector I could try this bulb in.
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RVonse




Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3049



PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, for all you folks who were wondering (like I was) what the voltage going into a lamp bulb it is really really high. Much higher than I would have figured anyway. My analog volt meter going to 1000volts completely pegs out.
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RVonse




Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3049



PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just put everything back in the JVC case without my jumper leads and the symptoms are still that the lamp and fans run briefly and then quit. Thats a little better than a total dead box that I had before. But I have no idea what I did to cause this improvement other than maybe I hooked the lamp up backwards with the jump leads.
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macgyver655




Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508



PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See, I told you not to test the voltage at the lamp socket. The strike voltage is in KV's.

These projectors are designed to monitor the lamps current usage. They are also designed to not function once the lamp has reached 2000 hours and the lamp timer must be reset after installing a new lamp for it to work again. This is because the lamp has the potential to explode after so many hours of use. You are just lucky it hasn't exploded yet while you have the lamp out of the unit and in the open on your table. Or you would NOT be posting here right now.

I would never attempt to get a lamp to ignite while it was out of it's protective housing and in the projector with the door closed.

DID I MAKE MY SELF CLEAR!!!!!!!
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mp20748




Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5681
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

macgyver655 wrote:


DID I MAKE MY SELF CLEAR!!!!!!!


hey mac, he's only living up to his avatar..Mr. Green

Seriously, you have been on the money on this one, much like you are on everything else. I only hope he heeds your advice, because even with the diagram, it's only going to make things worse.

Until one fully understands the technical operation involved in the lamp and protect circuits of those projectors, it's best to not remove the cover.

I also think you should offer your repair service for these projectors rather than try and advise someone who's really not familiar with them to avoid serious risk of damaging it, or even doing harm to themselves.
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RVonse




Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3049



PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

macgyver655 wrote:
See, I told you not to test the voltage at the lamp socket. The strike voltage is in KV's.

These projectors are designed to monitor the lamps current usage. They are also designed to not function once the lamp has reached 2000 hours and the lamp timer must be reset after installing a new lamp for it to work again. This is because the lamp has the potential to explode after so many hours of use. You are just lucky it hasn't exploded yet while you have the lamp out of the unit and in the open on your table. Or you would NOT be posting here right now.

I would never attempt to get a lamp to ignite while it was out of it's protective housing and in the projector with the door closed.

DID I MAKE MY SELF CLEAR!!!!!!!
Yes, I've heard all of that too. But other than manual resets or current that the lamp draws, I am at a loss after looking at how this is designed just how the projector can determine how much time a lamp has been running. And if it does require a human to make a manual reset, how does one accomplish the reset if there is no light to see it by?

I have seen a lot of the mercury vapor lamps we replace at work and when they get old you can see it by looking at them. This thing looks so pristine its hard to believe it would have 2000 hours on it.
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RVonse




Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3049



PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mp20748 wrote:
macgyver655 wrote:


DID I MAKE MY SELF CLEAR!!!!!!!



Until one fully understands the technical operation involved in the lamp and protect circuits of those projectors, it's best to not remove the cover.

.
Thats why I started this thread to further understand what I do not know.

Does the lamp power supply sense current fed to the lamp? If so, does an old lamp draw less current or more current than a new one?
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24296
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

macgyver655 wrote:


DID I MAKE MY SELF CLEAR!!!!!!!



No, not at all.

DID I MAKE MY SELF CLEAR!!!!!!![/quote]


There, now you did! Mr. Green Thumbs Up
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mp20748




Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5681
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RVonse wrote:

Does the lamp power supply sense current fed to the lamp? If so, does an old lamp draw less current or more current than a new one?


yes, no and maybe so. It really depends on a lot of different variables. For instance, what type of lamp being used (zenon, metal halide, etc), and depending on which lamp being used, you would have to understand what and how they detect it's failure. And of course a Lamp Power Supply would sense current concerning the lamp, but that's not the only thing that goes on in its complete operation. again, depending on the lamp itself and the design the manufacturer chose for that projector, you would not only have current as a detector, but temperature and timings as well. And some designs use even more complex feelers, especially those that attempt to shut down the projector to prevent a lamp from exploding.

As Mac indicated previously. some lamps require a higher ARC voltage to get it started, meaning when the unit is turned on, it ignites the lamp by sending an initial high voltage to the lamp. After that initial ARC, the lamp then operates on a very low voltage. For instance, almost every very large high light output projector operate this way. So once after the initial ARC start, the very high temperature lamp operates somewhere near 20 volts. Now keep in mind, with these designs that are very complex, it uses current, time and temperature. So the initial start-up involves temp sense, ARC period, time to start (current detect after initial ARC) and current detect after start up. And some even monitors a change in temperature over a time duration, so there are a lot of factors to consider in these designs. it's not simple anymore.

A digital projector could not start because the lamp is defective, but all theory would say that the lamp should glow or show an attempt to fire up, but if it has any of the advanced Lamp Power Supplies of today, it would have a way of knowing the lamp is defective before even trying to fire it up. That unique feature is how they prevent a defective lamp from exploding on start-up.

So in short. It would be better for you to have someone else like Mac or Curt look at it for you , than for you to risk possibly loosing out all together on getting it fixed. Playing around in those circuits without really understanding how they work could make things worse easily. Sensitive circuits require sensitive attention.

There's no way of getting around putting another lamp in that unit. And you never want to put a suspected failed lamp in a good and working unit.
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macgyver655




Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508



PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read this. Everyone will want a digital after reading it......."NOT".

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/content/productdata/spec%20sheets/32-26580.pdf
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RVonse




Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3049



PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mp20748 wrote:
RVonse wrote:

Does the lamp power supply sense current fed to the lamp? If so, does an old lamp draw less current or more current than a new one?


yes, no and maybe so. It really depends on a lot of different variables. For instance, what type of lamp being used (zenon, metal halide, etc), and depending on which lamp being used, you would have to understand what and how they detect it's failure. And of course a Lamp Power Supply would sense current concerning the lamp, but that's not the only thing that goes on in its complete operation. again, depending on the lamp itself and the design the manufacturer chose for that projector, you would not only have current as a detector, but temperature and timings as well. And some designs use even more complex feelers, especially those that attempt to shut down the projector to prevent a lamp from exploding.
As Mac indicated previously. some lamps require a higher ARC voltage to get it started, meaning when the unit is turned on, it ignites the lamp by sending an initial high voltage to the lamp. After that initial ARC, the lamp then operates on a very low voltage. For instance, almost every very large high light output projector operate this way. So once after the initial ARC start, the very high temperature lamp operates somewhere near 20 volts. Now keep in mind, with these designs that are very complex, it uses current, time and temperature. So the initial start-up involves temp sense, ARC period, time to start (current detect after initial ARC) and current detect after start up. And some even monitors a change in temperature over a time duration, so there are a lot of factors to consider in these designs. it's not simple anymore.

A digital projector could not start because the lamp is defective, but all theory would say that the lamp should glow or show an attempt to fire up, but if it has any of the advanced Lamp Power Supplies of today, it would have a way of knowing the lamp is defective before even trying to fire it up. That unique feature is how they prevent a defective lamp from exploding on start-up.
That all makes perfect sense now Mike. All I got to say is if they are worried about a lamp explosion then the manufacture needs to give us customers a "projector must run" pushbutton switch so that we can override all the permissives and finally determine whether or not the projector is going to run with a new lamp or not. Its like JVC wants you buy new tubes for a crt projector before you even know for sure whether the chassis has other problems and is going to run or not. Yes, I can drop another $350 in this thing but what happens when I do and find out I still have more issues to deal with? Like for instance, the fan driver board that has "no good" written all over it by some other tech before me. At the moment I'm getting a little tired of gambling and guessing. This projector physically looks brand new with no hours but before spending another $350 it sure would have been comforting to override the permissives. And at least get the thing up and running a few seconds to know for sure.

mp20748 wrote:

So in short. It would be better for you to have someone else like Mac or Curt look at it for you , than for you to risk possibly loosing out all together on getting it fixed.
Like I said in the OP, I took a gamble and lost. I knew that going in. Sometimes you get lucky with ebay. This time I didn't.
mp20748 wrote:

There's no way of getting around putting another lamp in that unit. And you never want to put a suspected failed lamp in a good and working unit.
I think thats bullcrap on JVC's part. They need some way to check the functionality of the rest of the projector without having a known good lamp.
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RVonse




Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3049



PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

macgyver655 wrote:
Read this. Everyone will want a digital after reading it......."NOT".

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/content/productdata/spec%20sheets/32-26580.pdf
Yes, thats exactly what mine looks like.
I guess I'm going to put this thing back together again and try a new lamp.
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