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Darbeevision
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HighDefMike



Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 62
Location: Florida


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


        Register to remove this ad. It's free!
kal wrote:


Darbee Darblet's are now available through CurtPalme.com!

See: http://www.curtpalme.com/Darbee.shtm

Kal


OK, I'm IN Very Happy ; I've read & heard enough 'bout it to order one and check it out on my own rig.
Should be interesting to see if/how it can enhance what I already consider to be a stellar calibration from ChadB.
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alternety



Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 12
Location: NW Washington


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just got one. I connected it between my receiver and the TV. Black screen and no audio with intermittent (a second or two) bursts of sound. Vendor says use longer cable. This, if true, would be a violation of the HDMI standard.

Connected the Darbee directly to the cable from the cable box rather than the output of the receiver, and the output (same cable as before) from the Darbee to the TV. Works just fine. There is more to the problem than just the cable length from the Darbee to the TV.

I am suspecting failure to properly provide the bi-directional signals on the HDMI cable. If it really is sensitive to the cable length from the source; significant internal problems. Standard simply does not support that behavior.

Also: sloppy/loose power plug connection. Stupid useless (and very bright) LED on power supply. Short PS cable. Silly warranty.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator


Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alternety wrote:
I just got one. I connected it between my receiver and the TV. Black screen and no audio with intermittent (a second or two) bursts of sound. Vendor says use longer cable. This, if true, would be a violation of the HDMI standard.

Huh?

alternety wrote:
Connected the Darbee directly to the cable from the cable box rather than the output of the receiver, and the output (same cable as before) from the Darbee to the TV. Works just fine. There is more to the problem than just the cable length from the Darbee to the TV.

Not necessarily. Could simply be that the receiver/Darbee combination is causing an issue with the short cable, while neither the Darbee or receiver would on their own.

alternety wrote:
I am suspecting failure to properly provide the bi-directional signals on the HDMI cable. If it really is sensitive to the cable length from the source; significant internal problems. Standard simply does not support that behavior.

No. If this is your suspicion, you don't have much experience with HDMI and a wide variety of equipment. I've seen HDMI handshake issues in half a dozen different systems in the last year alone - some of it very new, expensive, and very high-end gear. It isn't the Darbee that has significant internal problems; it's HDMI in general. It isn't the Darbee that can have issues with short cables; it's HDMI in general.

You mentioned "the HDMI standard". Standards are nice, but there is currently no independent testing and verification body to actually confirm compliance and interoperability with a variety of equipment. A standard is dubious at best without any independent testing or verification. The HDMI "standard" may as well be called a design or specification.

If you've been around more than a room or two of equipment with more than a couple of sources, HDMI will rear its ugly head. Do some googling. It's very common.

SC
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15870
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alternety wrote:
I just got one. I connected it between my receiver and the TV. Black screen and no audio with intermittent (a second or two) bursts of sound. Vendor says use longer cable.

Who was the vendor?

Kal

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Ron W



Joined: 07 Aug 2009
Posts: 516
Location: Mississauga


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
alternety wrote:
I just got one. I connected it between my receiver and the TV. Black screen and no audio with intermittent (a second or two) bursts of sound. Vendor says use longer cable. This, if true, would be a violation of the HDMI standard.

Huh?

alternety wrote:
Connected the Darbee directly to the cable from the cable box rather than the output of the receiver, and the output (same cable as before) from the Darbee to the TV. Works just fine. There is more to the problem than just the cable length from the Darbee to the TV.

Not necessarily. Could simply be that the receiver/Darbee combination is causing an issue with the short cable, while neither the Darbee or receiver would on their own.

alternety wrote:
I am suspecting failure to properly provide the bi-directional signals on the HDMI cable. If it really is sensitive to the cable length from the source; significant internal problems. Standard simply does not support that behavior.

No. If this is your suspicion, you don't have much experience with HDMI and a wide variety of equipment. I've seen HDMI handshake issues in half a dozen different systems in the last year alone - some of it very new, expensive, and very high-end gear. It isn't the Darbee that has significant internal problems; it's HDMI in general. It isn't the Darbee that can have issues with short cables; it's HDMI in general.

You mentioned "the HDMI standard". Standards are nice, but there is currently no independent testing and verification body to actually confirm compliance and interoperability with a variety of equipment. A standard is dubious at best without any independent testing or verification. The HDMI "standard" may as well be called a design or specification.

If you've been around more than a room or two of equipment with more than a couple of sources, HDMI will rear its ugly head. Do some googling. It's very common.

SC


I totally concur, it is strictly HDMI and all of its continuing unpredictability. This is further verified by the fact that companies such as Geffen and HDFury, among others, have introduced products strictly designed to attempt to stabilize that connection and even those with all their various options to reliably link up with the display, don't always work either. Even AVRs and Pre-Pros can offer differences in reliability and some "play nice" with HDMI better than others, especially when you have some processing in between the AVR/Pre-Pro and the display. FYI, a couple of years back I actually read in a Pioneer owners manual that stated that if an outboard video processor of any sort was added between the AVR and the display, they couldn't guarantee a reliable connection. What does that tell you and don't even try to get in to a discussion about any sort of reliable HDMI connectivity with cable and Sat boxes.

Unfortunately, even today when it comes to reliable and consistent HDMI connections, it is still a "roll of the dice" and ultimately the more equipment you have connected between the source and the display the bigger the dice.
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mc86



Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 761
Location: pittsburgh, pa

TV/Projector: ECP 4500 (Vidikron box), ECP4500+, wanting 07MS/07MTS, evaluating pc soft-blend


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HighDefMike wrote:

OK, I'm IN Very Happy ; I've read & heard enough 'bout it to order one and check it out on my own rig.
Should be interesting to see if/how it can enhance what I already consider to be a stellar calibration from ChadB.


Awesome - looking forward to a review from a CRT owner and am curious if you think Mike's "tightening" of the image seems like a accurate description. I'm bit unclear what he means by that. Anyway, if you can, please post some pics to the screenshot thread, too. Thumbs Up

Matt
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alternety



Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 12
Location: NW Washington


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KAL, I purchased it from this web site so I could support you. I have watched for years while salivating over the idea of a projection system. She who must be obeyed is not keen on buying a very expensive 20 year old "TV". The order was filled by Lumagen.

Clearly I stand corrected about HDMI. I do not indeed work with this stuff. Innocent bystander, but I used to know more. Old sucks.

I don't believe I have a longer cable that what is in use. I will poke around. The difference is so profound I am still reluctant to believe it is cable length but I will take the responses to heart and pursue it.

I also sent a number of suggestions to the Lumagen/Darbee people about their approach to the market and how it might be improved. I don't believe they are fully recognizing some of the marketing effects.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15870
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alternety wrote:
KAL, I purchased it from this web site so I could support you.


Thank you for this. I looked up the email you used when registering on the forum and it didn't match any of the Darbee orders since we started selling, hence the reason I asked. I also didn't see any suppoort emails go to lumagen@curtpalme.com so I guess you emailed them directly.

Can you describe your entire setup from start to end like this including HDMI cable lengths?:

Source -> X foot HDMI cable -> Device -> Y foot HDMI cable -> etc...

Kal

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kabuby77



Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 147
Location: Italy


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm curious to see the effect on a CRT. Can you post some pictures with split screen
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alternety



Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 12
Location: NW Washington


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KAL - Yes the email addresses are different. Many vendors take my email from a payment source (i.e., generally PayPal) rather than what I want them to have. And PayPal could never understand why anyone should do that. I thought I clicked to order from this site. It was certainly my intent. When I first tried the box and it failed I just took the email address from my receipt from PayPal. It was Lumagen. I can't PM you my address because I have less than 5 posts.

Anyway - connections.

Sources are a Comcast HD cable box and a DVR player. Neither go directly to the TV. They go into a Dennon AVR 2809CI. Today the TV is a Vizeo Plasma. Sometime tomorrow it will become a Panasonic Plasma.

Cable CBox to Rec 3'
Cable Rec to TV 9'
While testing Darbee, I used both the 9' and a 6' from the Darbee to TV. Kept the 3' to the CBox. I also tried the 6' TV to Darbee.

Neither cable worked from Darbee to TV. Black screen with fractional second bursts of sound (and maybe some video - I could not see well) at maybe 1 second intervals.

Going directly from the CBox to the Darbee with the 3' already in use worked just fine.

If you send me an email at my registration email I can send you the emails I have exchanged with Lumagen.
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alternety



Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 12
Location: NW Washington


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An alternate approach is that this may be post 5.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15870
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No worries. If you're working with Lumagen then this will get resolved. They will make this right for you. 3' cables can often be problematic, 6' sometimes, 9' not usually. I understand the frustration.

I would also try simplifying just to check. Try without the AVR just to see what happens. Use the longest cables you have.

Kal

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alternety



Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 12
Location: NW Washington


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did. With any combination of cables (including the 3'), cable box to Darbee to TV worked with no problem.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15870
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So whenever you introduce the AVR *and* the Darblet you have issues?

Kal

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WanMan



Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10261



PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which AVR is this again? I wonder if it is a specific manufacture or model causing the issue.
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alternety



Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 12
Location: NW Washington


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes.
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HighDefMike



Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 62
Location: Florida


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mc86 wrote:
HighDefMike wrote:

OK, I'm IN Very Happy ; I've read & heard enough 'bout it to order one and check it out on my own rig.
Should be interesting to see if/how it can enhance what I already consider to be a stellar calibration from ChadB.


Awesome - looking forward to a review from a CRT owner and am curious if you think Mike's "tightening" of the image seems like a accurate description. I'm bit unclear what he means by that. Anyway, if you can, please post some pics to the screenshot thread, too. Thumbs Up

Matt


I received my DVP 5000 yesterday, and even though I didn't have too much time to play with it, I AM REALLY IMPRESSED! Shocked . I kept thinking while in the DEMO/wipe mode, SURELY that's not the unprocessed image...being that soft or veiled?! It's exactly as one reviewer wrote, as though a thin video haze or film is peeled back off the image.
Apparently Mr. Darbee and crew DID do some research and homework into brain and eye functions as the white paper states.

But again, I'm no expert. just your everyday technology obsessed movie-loving CRT owner. And my subjective impressions are based on all of 15-20 minutes of "play" lastnight. I'm @ work now, but it's Friday so Thumbs Up

But my MAIN sources are Xbox 360 (outputting 720p) and Blu-rays (Panasonic, 1080p60).
The 360 HDMI is connected to a VIP 3D Displayer===>Pioneer VSX 1018Ah AVR===>Marquee 8500 (with the v3 Moome card. The Panasonic I was using goes straight into the AVR, and then on to the Marquee,

Had no connection or HDMI issues whatsoever.

Tried the FULLPOP mode (100% Darbee) with Xbox games (Halo 4, Gears of War 3, Forza 3), and besides the detail enhancement, there appeared to me to be a slight improvement in the contrast ratio of the overall image; whites were a tiny bit whiter (not bluer either) and blacks a tiny bit blacker...but didn't look like the gamma was altered or anything. Just better looking.

I also tried the HiDef Mode (which is supposed to be the least-artifact-creating mode for purists) with Blu-rays...Avatar, The Incredibles, and varied the amount of enhancement (up to 100%..down to 40%..where I'd READ some thought it was best), and to be honest with you, because of the selectivity of the DVP 5000 in what it enhances and what it doesn't, I left it @ 80% lastnight...but I might not feel that way later...or with other material. But it looked very nice to my eyes lastnight.

I'll experiment some more. I don't have a REAL camera, so I'm not sure I can capture some halfway decent images or not; although nothing will do justice to actually seeing it directly in front of you I'm sure.

In case it helps, my Draper matte white screen is 80" wide, 60" high, but since I've had the pj pro-calibrated a few times, I've matted off portions of the top and bottom for a 16:9 aspect. The room is totally light-controlled (when the picture goes to black and you're standing up, you WAIT Laughing until something comes back on screen before moving to see where the heck you're walking). The farthest I sit back from the screen is probably 10-11' maybe. The closest is probably 'bout 8 feet...where the image fills a much greater area of my field of vision, and I can see more detail like crazy. I was actually standing behind my farthest seating location...with my mouth hanging open..going...SURELY that's not the unprocessed image...being that soft or veiled?!

BTW, I got a Logitech Harmony 1100 a few months back, and I was happy to see that the little credit-card DVP 5000 remote codes for the DVP 5000 were "online" Thumbs Up , so now I can control the DVP 5000 (along with the Marquee and everything else) with the Harmony. Sweet!
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for posting your first impressions , even if it was just for a few minutes. First impressions are usually right Wink

Athanasios

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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15870
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FREE Darblet with every Radiance purchase
January 31, 2013



For a limited time, all Radiance video processor orders include a FREE DarbeeVision Darblet Image Enhancer ($350 MSRP) and Radiance XS and XE pricing has been reduced:

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See the absolute best Radiance video processing coupled with the newest DarbeeVision imagine enhancement technology that has videophiles and critics raving. Now at previously unheard of pricing.

For complete details or to order, see our Radiance order page:

http://www.curtpalme.com/Radiance.shtm

Kal

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alternety



Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 12
Location: NW Washington


PostLink    Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cabled the new TV and went through the setup for the receiver again. From years ago I thought I remembered a setting about acting on the power status of external devices (e.g., TV). They were there and I turned those functions off.

Tried the Darbee again. Same results. A very short burst of audio and video repeated every second or two. I again tried a couple of different cable length - no impact. The longest one I have is the one already going to the TV.
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