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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 1468
TV/Projector: JVC RS55, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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 Link Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| WanMan wrote: | | So, the RS20 is still a good item to have. |
Not sure I follow, aside from the fact that I think the RS20 is a good projector.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 1468
TV/Projector: JVC RS55, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Link Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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More on the RS45/X30's gamut:
http://www.cinetson.org/phpBB3/projecteurs-f2/jvc-dla-x30-test-ligne-page-t34360-450.html
"Standard" gamut:
"Large 1" gamut:
"Large 2" gamut:
The author of the post indicates that others have recorded similar results as well, although they do contradict the initial results I linked earlier. If these results prove to be accurate, the most notable problem is green's significant push towards yellow, even in the larger gamuts, followed by the significant luminance deficiencies in red, blue, and magenta in the "standard" and "large 2" gamuts. The fact that multiple people are getting these results is disturbing, to say the least. Even more disturbing is that there may be no way for a CMS to correct that kind of hue problem if that represents the "native" green that the projector is capable of producing.
Hopefully these prove to be firmware problems and not physically related the dichrotic filters themselves (which would be near impossible to fix).
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 12330
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56
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| Link Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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So am I correct in my understanding that the SQUARES are the correct locations and the CIRCLES are the measured actuals?
Kal
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 1468
TV/Projector: JVC RS55, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Link Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | So am I correct in my understanding that the SQUARES are the correct locations and the CIRCLES are the measured actuals?
Kal |
Correct, I had to look at that for a second too - it would be nice to have a legend or something else denoting the targets vs the measurements 
Just to re-iterate, these results do stand in contrast to the first set I posted with respect to how far green's hue is biased towards yellow. However all of the results do indicate some sort of major luminance errors for the Standard gamut for at least blue, if not other colors. At this point, the least wrong gamut is Large 1, but even then it looks like it contains errors that may not be fixable with a CMS.
As we continue to see more data, hopefully this turns out to be some sort of fluke or early manufacturing issue, or maybe just an issue with the the measurements themselves (although that option is probably less likely).
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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| Link Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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When internal CMS limits are reach do we then move to color filtration externally?
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 3904
Location: Comedy Central
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| Link Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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Hog,
You make a good point about getting a vetted used pj.
I now have a kind of off on topic question for you. Would you accept a blue this far off?
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/862/pc154229.jpg/
This is the RS45 that my best friend just bought.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 1468
TV/Projector: JVC RS55, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Link Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| WanMan wrote: | | When internal CMS limits are reach do we then move to color filtration externally? |
I'm not sure whether you could fix this problem with an external color filter or not. I do know that using any sort of filter would significantly cut down on the projector's usable lumens though. Generally color filters were used to increase the contrast of digital projectors at the expense of some lumens (and probably some ANSI CR as well).
In this particular case, if we assume that the above chromaticity charts are correct and that "Large 1" represents the PJ's native gamut as defined by its physical color filters, there is nothing that can be done (short of changing out the green color filter inside the PJ, which would be quite a feat) to move green away from yellow and towards green. A digital CMS can only move a primary within the boundaries of the native color gamut for that display; colors outside of that gamut are not achievable.
| Spanky Ham wrote: | Hog,
You make a good point about getting a vetted used pj.
I now have a kind of off on topic question for you. Would you accept a blue this far off?
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/862/pc154229.jpg/
This is the RS45 that my best friend just bought. |
The vertical alignment of blue in the top picture is what I would consider unacceptable (> 1 pixel width misalignment), but JVCs have on-board panel alignment controls that allow you to shift each color by 1 pixel increments. If blue is off by a similarly uniform amount across the entire screen, the panel alignment controls can be used to fix this problem. However if the amount by which blue is misaligned varies across the screen, there's no way to affect good alignment with the controls I described.
I would return that RS45 if the panel alignment controls don't fix the problem, as misconvergence of that magnitude will be quite annoyingly noticeable.
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
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Location: Comedy Central
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| Link Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Hog. I believe he did try adjusting the alignment, but I think he said it made it worse. I agree on shipping it back, but he was told to step back to his viewing distance and see how bad it is on viewing material. I understand the thought process, but I still think it would be noticeable. If it was a pixel or under than I would tell him to live with it.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 1468
TV/Projector: JVC RS55, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Link Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: | | Thanks Hog. I believe he did try adjusting the alignment, but I think he said it made it worse. I agree on shipping it back, but he was told to step back to his viewing distance and see how bad it is on viewing material. I understand the thought process, but I still think it would be noticeable. If it was a pixel or under than I would tell him to live with it. |
I've owned a projector with a similar amount of blue misconvergence at the edges of the picture, and I can tell you that that will most certainly be visible at normal viewing distances on plenty of material. It annoyed the piss out of me while I had that unit. Once you start getting under a pixel of misconvergence, it becomes less noticeable (depending on where it occurs on the screen).
I'm hoping that his dealer just doesn't understand the degree to which he is experiencing the problem and that he's already done everything an end-user can do to fix it. Bottom line, his dealer needs to make it right.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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| Link Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:30 am Post subject: |
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Just imagine the misconvergence from my prescription eyewear.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 1468
TV/Projector: JVC RS55, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Link Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| HogPilot wrote: | | dropzone7 wrote: | | Guys, got a bead on a used Pioneer Pro-FPJ1 (RS2 clone). If I could dump the RS1 and get the Pioneer for a net increase of around $500 would it be worth it? Are the primaries any better on this projector than the RS1? |
Not sure on how much you're looking to spend, but someone just put an FPJ1 up for sale bundled with a Radiance XE for $3K on Videogon. If I were you I'd jump all over that, at that price you're essentially getting the FPJ1 for free, or a Radiance XE for $1K-$1.5K.
http://cgi.videogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?projmisc&1329076355&&&/Pioneer-Radiancexe-PRO-FPJ1 |
He's dropped the price to $2800, which means you could potentially negotiate lower. I can't believe he's selling a Radiance XE for such little money...
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1070
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Link Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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Just checking back in here. I found a nice deal on a DVDO DUO to replace my VP50pro so that I can take advantage of the CMS function of this processor and hopefully improve my projector a bit. I have an old Eye One 2 meter and have never used anything but HCFR. I guess I need to be looking at a new meter and Chromapure package. I used to use my meter with an old XP laptop which I don't have anymore. Just for kicks I installed HCFR on my Win7 laptop and could not get it to recognize my meter. Drive issue I suppose and not something I want to spend a lot of time with since I will be getting a new meter/software soon.
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
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Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Link Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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Would a JVC HD250 be a step up from the RS1? I know it doesn't have many features but the one I'm looking at is less than a year old and has really low lamp hours.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 1468
TV/Projector: JVC RS55, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Link Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| dropzone7 wrote: | | Would a JVC HD250 be a step up from the RS1? I know it doesn't have many features but the one I'm looking at is less than a year old and has really low lamp hours. |
Definitely, in multiple aspects.
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
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Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Link Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| HogPilot wrote: | | dropzone7 wrote: | | Would a JVC HD250 be a step up from the RS1? I know it doesn't have many features but the one I'm looking at is less than a year old and has really low lamp hours. |
Definitely, in multiple aspects. |
Oh well, I missed it. I guess I should really get what I have up and running before I start looking for another projector. 
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1070
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Link Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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My DVDO DUO just showed up here at work. Looks pretty much like the last two DVDO boxes I have had. Now to decide which meter/software package to buy.
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1070
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Link Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Moving on from the RS1. I found a nice deal on an HD350 (RS10) with new extra bulb. Very nice so far but does need some calibration once I get the equipment. Hell, I don't even have a screen yet.
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1463
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Link Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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you can't even get one plugged in before you upgrade now!!
Where are you getting these great deals? Locally or videogon/ebay?
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