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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17860
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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 Link Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| dropzone7 wrote: | | Kal, have you considered anamorphic lenses at all? Do you think you would start off zooming or get a lens right away? |
I'm thinking that for starters I'd just go with a new projector on the 16x9 screen I have today and play with it for a while and get a feel for my priorities and if I want to do CIH, or possibly CIA, or even something else. I don't know. I need to play with it a bit first get a feel for the different ideas by just doing zooming.
If I do decide I want CIH then I'll decide how I want to do it. I'd most certainly want to see exactly what quality I'd be losing by just zooming. I know in theory exactly what it does, I just don't know what it looks like exactly.
Kal
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17860
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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staggeringwade
Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 3
Location: Helena, MT
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| Link Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:59 am Post subject: |
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I'm a complete noob with questions.
To start I love deep blacks, & scope screens, but I'm not wealthy and want to do this for as little cash as possible.
I built a home theater 3 years ago. I'm currently using a plasma tv mounted to the wall, because of information overload on CIH plus 3-4 years ago I could not afford a projector.
I'm now ready to purchase a projector soon.
The room is a bat cave (no windows). The walls are painted dark brown, dark brown carpet, black ceiling.
Ceiling height is 7'7".
I combined two bedrooms into 1 man cave with a support header between the two rooms. There is a jog in the back wall where the seating is backed against. 1 row of 3 seats total. From reclined seats to screening wall is 12' 8"
The distance from the header to the screen wall is 14'9". There is more room (13') in back of the header in the back of the room if I needed to drop the projector below the header farther back to get the throw distance corrected (I don't want to do this unless I have no choice).
The width of the screen wall is 12' 2". I currently use Definitive Tech satellite speakers that will fit at each end of the WA screen.
My tv screen picture starts at 30" off of the floor-was hoping CIH screen would be about the same.
I was intending on building the wilsonart 5'x10' CIH screen. I was planning on making the screen curved, but I have read that it is a nightmare to setup?
The man cave is used only for scope movies, sometimes my kids watch netflix or play the PS3 so it would be nice to accommodate them as well with the 16:9 format.
I was really hoping to purchase the Panasonic AE 4000 and use the anamorphic stretch mode. Main reason for wanting the Panny is the stretch mode, but the other was because the projector will sit directly over the seating and I heard the epson UB's are noisier.
My other choices for projectors are epson 8700 UB or even the 8350. I like the idea of 3D, Avatar was awesome but it is shot in 16:9 WTH? Otherwise I don't really need 3D so I don't need to jump on that wagon to keep up with the Jones's and spend too much money on a 3D projector.
I realize there are issues with stretch mode as in loss of lumen output and lower resolution, but was hoping my super dark room would make the experience great.
Do any affordable Epson projectors do anamorphic stretch?
I cannot afford an anamorphic lens from Anamorphic Research now while trying to purchase a projector, however I could save cash down the road and keep my eyes on ebay for an anamorphic lens.
I have read several forums on this topic but I never have really found simple answers to fit my application.
Any information would be helpful, I will give more details as requested.
Thanks for your help.
Wade
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staggeringwade
Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 3
Location: Helena, MT
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| Link Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| staggeringwade wrote: | I'm a complete noob with questions.
To start I love deep blacks, & scope screens, but I'm not wealthy and want to do this for as little cash as possible.
I built a home theater 3 years ago. I'm currently using a plasma tv mounted to the wall, because of information overload on CIH plus 3-4 years ago I could not afford a projector.
I'm now ready to purchase a projector soon.
The room is a bat cave (no windows). The walls are painted dark brown, dark brown carpet, black ceiling.
Ceiling height is 7'7".
I combined two bedrooms into 1 man cave with a support header between the two rooms. There is a jog in the back wall where the seating is backed against. 1 row of 3 seats total. From reclined seats to screening wall is 12' 8"
The distance from the header to the screen wall is 14'9". There is more room (13') in back of the header in the back of the room if I needed to drop the projector below the header farther back to get the throw distance corrected (I don't want to do this unless I have no choice).
The width of the screen wall is 12' 2". I currently use Definitive Tech satellite speakers that will fit at each end of the WA screen.
My tv screen picture starts at 30" off of the floor-was hoping CIH screen would be about the same.
I was intending on building the wilsonart 5'x10' CIH screen. I was planning on making the screen curved, but I have read that it is a nightmare to setup?
The man cave is used only for scope movies, sometimes my kids watch netflix or play the PS3 so it would be nice to accommodate them as well with the 16:9 format.
I was really hoping to purchase the Panasonic AE 4000 and use the anamorphic stretch mode. Main reason for wanting the Panny is the stretch mode, but the other was because the projector will sit directly over the seating and I heard the epson UB's are noisier.
My other choices for projectors are epson 8700 UB or even the 8350. I like the idea of 3D, Avatar was awesome but it is shot in 16:9 WTH? Otherwise I don't really need 3D so I don't need to jump on that wagon to keep up with the Jones's and spend too much money on a 3D projector.
I realize there are issues with stretch mode as in loss of lumen output and lower resolution, but was hoping my super dark room would make the experience great.
Do any affordable Epson projectors do anamorphic stretch?
I cannot afford an anamorphic lens from Anamorphic Research now while trying to purchase a projector, however I could save cash down the road and keep my eyes on ebay for an anamorphic lens.
I have read several forums on this topic but I never have really found simple answers to fit my application.
Any information would be helpful, I will give more details as requested.
Thanks for your help.
Wade |
Forgot to mention I was ceiling mounting the projector directly in front of the header.
Wade
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Link Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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Kal,
Not to press the anamorphic lens issue, but someone over at AVS is selling his Panamorph UH380 (a very nice prism-based anamorphic lens) for $900. That was my first model of anamorphic lens, I purchased it for $2500 under an introductory offer when it was first released (it sold for much more for a while), and it really is a great lens. It has anti-reflective coatings as well correction for chromatic abberation, so it is capable of yielding a very high quality image, especially when compared to cheaper DIY or commercial solutions.
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17860
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Link Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the heads up but I've decided to wait and play with the new projector for a while after it arrives before deciding if CIH is for me.
If I do decide I want CIH then I'll decide how I want to do it. I'd most certainly want to see exactly what quality I'd be losing by just zooming. I know in theory exactly what it does, I just don't know what it looks like exactly.
Kal
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My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Link Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | Thanks for the heads up but I've decided to wait and play with the new projector for a while after it arrives before deciding if CIH is for me.
If I do decide I want CIH then I'll decide how I want to do it. I'd most certainly want to see exactly what quality I'd be losing by just zooming. I know in theory exactly what it does, I just don't know what it looks like exactly.
Kal |
Sounds very reasonable to me! I'll chill on the a-lens postings then 
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17860
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Link Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| HogPilot wrote: | | kal wrote: | Thanks for the heads up but I've decided to wait and play with the new projector for a while after it arrives before deciding if CIH is for me.
If I do decide I want CIH then I'll decide how I want to do it. I'd most certainly want to see exactly what quality I'd be losing by just zooming. I know in theory exactly what it does, I just don't know what it looks like exactly.
Kal |
Sounds very reasonable to me! I'll chill on the a-lens postings then |
I saw that but I have read some things about the U380 having problems with JVC projectors in particular. Something about light scatter inside the lens which they apparently fixed with the U480. I think a Panamorph would would be perfect for my short throw but then I have to find or make a transport.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Link Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| dropzone7 wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: | | kal wrote: | Thanks for the heads up but I've decided to wait and play with the new projector for a while after it arrives before deciding if CIH is for me.
If I do decide I want CIH then I'll decide how I want to do it. I'd most certainly want to see exactly what quality I'd be losing by just zooming. I know in theory exactly what it does, I just don't know what it looks like exactly.
Kal |
Sounds very reasonable to me! I'll chill on the a-lens postings then |
I saw that but I have read some things about the U380 having problems with JVC projectors in particular. Something about light scatter inside the lens which they apparently fixed with the U480. I think a Panamorph would would be perfect for my short throw but then I have to find or make a transport. |
Funny you mention that - I was one of the first end users to notice the problem in '07 when the RS1 was brand new, and I worked with Shawn Kelly at Panamorph to come up with a simple fix (which Panamorph incorporated into all of their subsequent lens designs). The basic problem stems from how LCoS - and specifically JVC - projectors work. Unlike LCD or DLP, the display chips in an LCoS machine don't actually modulate the light at all, rather they polarize it. The polarized light is then reflected off of wire-grid polarizers - light polarized at say 0° is completely reflected, light polarized at say 90° is completely absorbed, and light in between is reflected/absorbed based on where it lies between 0º and 90°. Obviously the wire grid polarizers are very efficient at absorbing light - which is where the high CR of JVC's projectors comes from - but you also want them to be very efficient at reflecting light as well to maximize the projector's light output.
The rear-most optical element in the UH380 sits normal (perpendicular) to the light beam from the projector, and despite the anti-reflective coatings it still does reflect a small amount of light back into the projector. In most projectors, this light passes into the light engine and gets scattered around - however the wire grid polarizers actually reflect some of that light back out at a different angle, creating an offset "ghost" image in a small portion of the screen. The phenomenon is only noticeable in low APL scenes with bright objects near the center of the image, however it was extremely annoying.
The fix is simple - angle the rear-most optical element in the lens (essentially a square glass plate) so that it directs light to the left or right of the lens, preventing it from hitting the polarizers. Doing so required a properly sized hex wrench to remove the screws on the top and bottom of the lens casing and removing the rear optical element. At this point you'll see a set of notched plastic "ribs" on both the top and bottom of the case that holds the rear optical element in place. Shawn just had me re-notch the ribs with an exacto knife so that the element could be installed at about a 15° angle. When looking from the rear of the lens, the left edge of the element was about 1/2" deeper in the case than the right edge. The whole procedure took about an hour, mostly because you want to be careful with the optical elements (no smudges) and careful with notching the ribs. The procedure itself was quite simple though, and it worked brilliantly!
After that, Panamorph designed the UH440, UH480, and DC1 so that the rear element was angled to prevent the ghosting problem. However the UH380 is still very usable with any JVC projector, and at the price you can pick them up used, having to perform the simple mod is definitely well worth it!
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
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