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Does anyone make a super high gain screen any more?
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garyfritz




Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12021
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Yeah, yeah, I know, he was a bit of a loudmouth and a blowhard at times. But he sureashell knows more about painting screens than *I* do, and probably more than just about anybody on this board.
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Spanky Ham




Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't dislike Maurice, but his knowledge of paint isn't that extensive. I would say that I am probably a little more cognizant of paint than he is. Also, mechman and the other guys that moved over to ht shack did a great job of displacing the BS with fact. What those guys came up with is a couple of good DIY paint formulas for just about everyone. They also found out (something I believed long ago) is that there is no flavor of the week every couple of months.
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garyfritz




Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12021
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure you know a lot about paint and other finishes, but how many screen-paint formulations have you experimented with? That's kind of specialized knowledge. MMan tried many dozens of mixes, and shot a lot of screens for a lot of people. I figured he had a lot of hands-on experience.

I dropped off AVS before those other guys picked up the torch. They may have a better answer for betel.
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betel




Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 448
Location: Maryville, Tennessee (Just South of Knoxville)


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Gary.
You're probably right about reducing the reflectivity. The original reflective surface is pure aluminum film with a protective clear matt top coat. No way to reproduce that so paint is my only option. Still I'd like the gain to be as high as possible. The imperfections are overspray from each pass of the spray gun. Smoothing with abrasives ended up removing too much paint and revealed a trace of the primer layer. I've considered taking it to a professional auto painter but no guarantees they could do better. As I said before, oil based aluminum paint had a very smooth finish. Applying a protective top coat reacted with the aluminum paint resulting in a gray mess. I’ve read oil paint never completely dries. It may be I need to allow more time for the aluminum paint to cure before applying the top coat if ever. I'll just have to keep my hands off it in the interim.

As it is now, if I ignore the screen imperfection, the overall image quality is fantastic and much more dynamic than my old unity gain screen. I think the term I’ve seen used for this is punch.
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jcwhite57




Joined: 30 Apr 2011
Posts: 25
Location: Maryville, TN


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, back on topic.
Here's a recent discusion on Xtremeplace Home Theater & HiFi Forum where you can get in touch with a Mocom (high gain screen supplier) rep: http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=92798.0
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dvh99




Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 2158
Location: nederland


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.ausometechnology.com/pdf/Mocom_20_gain_screen_technology.pdf

a fun project would be is to try and make a screen with paint containing nano aluminium particles and finish it with a matte transparent coating.

powder coating would be even better.

i am surely going to try this.

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jcwhite57




Joined: 30 Apr 2011
Posts: 25
Location: Maryville, TN


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dvh99 wrote:
http://www.ausometechnology.com/pdf/Mocom_20_gain_screen_technology.pdf

a fun project would be is to try and make a screen with paint containing nano aluminium particles and finish it with a matte transparent coating.

powder coating would be even better.

i am surely going to try this.


Where are you going to get this paint?
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Spanky Ham




Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would love to find some aluminized mylar in sheets wider than 48". If I could find a 72" wide sheet, then I would be ecstatic.

I remember seeing a DNP screen at Infocomm a couple of years ago that was high gain. It hotspotted pretty bad. If you mounted this into a Torus, then it might work pretty good.
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Spanky Ham




Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just looked it up and it is called the Supernova. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like it is that high of a gain. Mechman reviewed it over at the shack.
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/manufactured-screens/18759-dnp-supernova-review.html
http://www.dnp-screens.com/DNP08/SEGMENTER/HOME-ENTERTAINMENT/Screens/Front-projection-screens/dnp-Supernova-Flex.aspx
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jcwhite57




Joined: 30 Apr 2011
Posts: 25
Location: Maryville, TN


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spanky Ham wrote:
I would love to find some aluminized mylar in sheets wider than 48". If I could find a 72" wide sheet, then I would be ecstatic.

I remember seeing a DNP screen at Infocomm a couple of years ago that was high gain. It hotspotted pretty bad. If you mounted this into a Torus, then it might work pretty good.


I've got some 56" wide. Normally it is used for indooor plant growth. How would you get it to conform to the torus?
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Spanky Ham




Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't tried it, but I would just use it in a torus frame. I forgot that it is 54" wide. You will lose a couple of inches for the frame. What would be nice is a hard torus that you could apply the mylar to.
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garyfritz




Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12021
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even with a hard torus, wouldn't you have problems with the mylar wrinkling? It doesn't stretch very well, does it?

A mirror surface like mylar has to be just about perfect. Every little imperfection will stick out like a sore thumb. Though if you do something to mute the reflectivity -- e.g. I remember somebody experimenting with fine cheesecloth-like fabric over the mylar -- then small imperfections won't be as much of an issue.
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WanMan




Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10273



PostLink    Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, if someone would just make a 10-meter radius bell jar ...
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jcwhite57




Joined: 30 Apr 2011
Posts: 25
Location: Maryville, TN


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To conform the mylar to the torus, I think could be done with a vacume press. The entire screen would need to be contained in a sealed plastic bag. The bag would contain a port to hook up a suction device. Maybe a vacume cleaner could pull enough vacume but probably need a vacume pump. The mylar would need to be secured to the perimeter of the screen frame and adhesive applied to the screen face but not touching the mylar. As the air is evacuated, the mylar would be evenly stretched and adhered to the screen surface. After the adhesive cures, remove the screen from the bag and apply a matte finish to diffuse the light. At least that’s my theory. In practice I can see where a lot could go wrong and would. The slightest wrinkle and it’s ruined.

When I used oil based aluminum paint, the finish was very close to aluminum film and as such, was too reflective. As I said before, applying the matte finish coat reacted with the aluminum paint and created a glossy gray mess. Worst screen surface possible. Recently I read where artist protect their finished oil painted work with a top coat of clear varnish. What I didn’t know was it may take a year for the paint to dry before applying the varnish. To test if the paint is dry, you dip an edge of a piece of cloth in minerial spirits and dabbed the painted surface. If the paint transfers to the cloth, it’s not dry yet. I’m going to try one more time with the water based aluminum paint. If I can’t get an acceptable finish, I will try the oil based aluminum paint and allow the paint to completely dry before applying the top coat.

BTW, water based aluminum paint isn’t something you can get at your local paint store. I couldn’t even find it at an art supplier. I ordered a quart of “Modern Masters” brand from their online store. The finish is a matte reflective surface very similar in appearance to the original finish and doesn’t need a top coat.
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Spanky Ham




Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might want to check out htshack for some info on the different pigments.
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hardvark




Joined: 04 May 2009
Posts: 3
Location: knoxville, Tennessee


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

does Vutec still make the curved hi gain screens?
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jcwhite57




Joined: 30 Apr 2011
Posts: 25
Location: Maryville, TN


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hardvark wrote:
does Vutec still make the curved hi gain screens?


As for as I know, the highest gain screen they make is the silverstar with a gain of 6 I believe.
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Spanky Ham




Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe the screen was really expensive to make, so they shut it down in favor of the Silverstar. I seem to remember Vutec putting the equipment up for sale a couple of years ago.
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xmob135lc




Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 80



PostLink    Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...
http://www.avsforum.com/t/257569/crt-rear-projection#post_2202634

I think this is a definitive post about high gain screens (rather, still is... Embarassed )

...
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