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using with a CRT projector
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royuk




Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Posts: 41



PostLink    Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 8:06 am    Post subject: using with a CRT projector Reply with quote


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I wish to have 3D running on my Barco 1209s CRT pj. At present 2D is perfect without the use of a scaler/video processor like a Lumagen. Connection is with a HDfury 3. So without wishing to spend several thousand pounds to have 3D and the need for a Lumagen how does 3D-Theatre compare on CRT vs digital projector. And without a video processor can i still use the various 720/1080p resolutions?

This could be what i'm looking for, a cheap and simple plug and play way to 3D Very Happy

roy
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17850
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have my 3D-Theatre yet (it's on the way) so I can't comment. From what I hear at 60Hz it looks exactly like what commercial IMAX 3D (film) theatres look like: A little bit of flicker but normal. 120Hz doesn't have flicker.

If your Barco 1209 (you didn't mention if its a data or graphics) can do 720p/120 then run it at 120Hz. That requires 91Khz scanrate which higher end 8" and 9" CRT projectors will handle without any problems.

Quote:
And without a video processor can i still use the various 720/1080p resolutions?


I don't understand this question. The 3D-Theatre output is 720p/60 or 720p/120 when a 3D signal is passed through. If you're watching 2D content it just gets passed through without being changed at all so any resolution in the world is possible.

Kal

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royuk




Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Posts: 41



PostLink    Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a 9 inch graphics projector.

I took another look at your reply to 'pitou' regarding 'down conversion to 720p' and understand it now. I was looking at the various 3D 720/1080 inputs and taking this as the output resolution to the pj. But infact all you can get of use in reality is 720/60 or 720/120 as ouput from the 3D theatre device. Thats enough for 3D now as i understand it, especially without the extra expense and hassle for anything more.

When you get your 3D theatre device can you please let us know, in my case especially regarding use with a CRT.

thanks, roy
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17850
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The BG1209s scans to a very high 135Khz so 91Khz is no problem. The projector also accepts up to 200Hz vertical refresh rate, so doing 120Hz is no problem.

Absolutely right about 720/60.

I'm looking forward to getting mine!

Kal

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Brian Hampton




Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 1174



PostLink    Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So excited to hear you will be trying these products with CRT FP.

Makes me wish I still had the G70,... I can only imagine how amazing it would have been to view it with 3D content.

Can't wait to hear from members who get the chance to try it out.

-Brian
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HighDefMike




Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 62
Location: Florida


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
I don't have my 3D-Theatre yet (it's on the way) so I can't comment.....Kal


kal, have you received yours yet? I'm also interested in hearing how it looks/works with CRT projectors.
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Rolf Hult




Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 84
Location: Sandnes, Norway


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm also waiting for my 3d-theater for use with my M8500 (P43 and HD144..+mome hdmi).
The Canadian postal are in strike, but should be solved "any day soon" Sad

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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17850
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HighDefMike wrote:
kal wrote:
I don't have my 3D-Theatre yet (it's on the way) so I can't comment.....Kal


kal, have you received yours yet? I'm also interested in hearing how it looks/works with CRT projectors.

I got mine now and need to spend some time getting it hooked up. I had some of the cables I needed packed away unfortunately because we're moving... I've now got them back so hope to test it out in the next day or two.

I did try it quickly on a 30" 60Hz LCD computer monitor I have and it had some issues so I'm trying to figure out what the problem is and I seem to be the only one with the problem. Wink

Kal

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SgtVideo




Joined: 27 May 2011
Posts: 88



PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
HighDefMike wrote:
kal wrote:
I don't have my 3D-Theatre yet (it's on the way) so I can't comment.....Kal


kal, have you received yours yet? I'm also interested in hearing how it looks/works with CRT projectors.

I got mine now and need to spend some time getting it hooked up. I had some of the cables I needed packed away unfortunately because we're moving... I've now got them back so hope to test it out in the next day or two.

I did try it quickly on a 30" 60Hz LCD computer monitor I have and it had some issues so I'm trying to figure out what the problem is and I seem to be the only one with the problem. Wink

Kal


The computer monitors and their graphics modes introduce a new set of variables that create problems for the VIP product that would not be present on traditional display devices. This doesn't mean it isn't possible but the user may have more difficulty in accomplishing it.

One guy was upset his PC LCD wouldn't work with his Displayer in 120hz mode. After reviewing the timings for his particular model of monitor it was only capable of 120hz in Analog mode. His digital mode was limited to 85 hz which worked at the 60hz setting. So 120hz has to be right kind of 120hz or no go.

Best thing one can hope to do is take the monitor manual and see which resolution and timing combinations get passed via DVI and HDMI.

G'day
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Barry




Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 186
Location: Los Gatos , Ca.


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:05 am    Post subject: 1209 Graphics PJ with LumagenHDP Reply with quote

This 3D-VIP looks like the perfect tool to add 3D to my system. (cheaply) Just to be sure I know the 1209 will handle the 120Hz fine, but I suspect I will path the signal: iMac home theater computer > VIP > LumagenHDP (reconvert to 1080P cuz that is where it is set) > 1209.

Any reason to suspect a conflict? I can drop back to 720P on the Lumagen if necessary. I run the audio directly from the iMac but given that there is only one frame delay that should not mess the sync up. Take out teh VIP and that is how I run Blu Ray over DVI/HDMI cable now. Look doable?

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Addicted to buying cool used expensive toys...(especially CRT projectors) Barco 1209, 1208 and Elektra Espresso Maxi2 most recent additions.....
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17850
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barry: 1080p/120 is almost 140Khz scanrate. Your 1209 can't handle that nor can the Lumagen or even the HDMI spec. You need to use 720p/120.

Kal

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Barry




Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 186
Location: Los Gatos , Ca.


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Kal, I think I can live with that.....BTW, in terms of content, I just talked to Netflix and tehy will be adding 3D to the line up this mid-Summer ....now I will have to re-rent and rip a whole bunch of movies all over again...
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wildchild22




Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 185



PostLink    Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

keep in mind 1080p 3d is only 1080p@23.976 left and right so=1080p@47.952

That is what the radiance tell me anyways from my 3d bluray player.
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EricL




Joined: 23 Aug 2011
Posts: 15
Location: Tampa,FL


PostLink    Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was looking at the 3d theater, and the install manual says it supports

720p60 Frame packing, Side-by-Side, Top-and-Bottom
720p50 Frame packing, Side-by-Side, Top-and-Bottom
720p24 Frame packing, Side-by-Side, Top-and-Bottom
720p25 Frame packing, Side-by-Side, Top-and-Bottom
720p30 Frame packing, Side-by-Side, Top-and-Bottom
1080i60 Side-by-Side
1080i50 Side-by-Side
1080p24 Frame packing, Side-by-Side, Top-and-Bottom
1080p25 Frame packing, Side-by-Side, Top-and-Bottom
1080p30 Frame packing, Side-by-Side, Top-and-Bottom

Is that incorrect?
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dvh99




Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 2158
Location: nederland


PostLink    Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal, have you used the 3d theatre and if so how is the quality of this device and what resolution are you running.

cheers

dennis

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marquee 9500ultra HD10L moome hdmi1.3 v3+ some mods.
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17850
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Dennis,

Thanks for the reminder. I just finished setting up my "temporary" home theater in the unfinished basement of the new house (we just moved in a few weeks ago) and haven't had a chance to try it yet. I'll dig it out and see.

Running 720p/120Hz requires a CRT projector that has a max horiz scanrate of at least 90-91Khz which means a reasonably good graphics grade projector. See here: http://www.curtpalme.com/PJSpecs.shtm

My Zenith 1200 scans to a maximum of 75Khz horizontal scan rate so I'm forced to use 720p/60Hz which means in bright scenes the flicker will be noticeable to most people and may prove annoying to some people. How much this annoys you depends on how sensitive someone is to flicker. I probably won't like it myself but that's just me. (I'm going by the fact that when 48Hz refresh was all the rage about 6-8 years ago I didn't like it because of flicker).

If your projector can do 720p/120Hz then each eye gets 60Hz which means there shouldn't be issues. I know Rolf Hult loves it on his higher end Marquee. See: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27189

Kal

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Rolls-Royce




Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 288
Location: Victorville, CA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EricL wrote:
I was looking at the 3d theater, and the install manual says it supports

720p60 Frame packing, Side-by-Side, Top-and-Bottom
720p50 Frame packing, Side-by-Side, Top-and-Bottom
720p24 Frame packing, Side-by-Side, Top-and-Bottom
720p25 Frame packing, Side-by-Side, Top-and-Bottom
720p30 Frame packing, Side-by-Side, Top-and-Bottom
1080i60 Side-by-Side
1080i50 Side-by-Side
1080p24 Frame packing, Side-by-Side, Top-and-Bottom
1080p25 Frame packing, Side-by-Side, Top-and-Bottom
1080p30 Frame packing, Side-by-Side, Top-and-Bottom

Is that incorrect?


Eric, those are the resolutions it accepts as input. It only outputs 720p/60 or 720p/120.

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EricL




Joined: 23 Aug 2011
Posts: 15
Location: Tampa,FL


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolls-Royce wrote:
EricL wrote:
I was looking at the 3d theater, and the install manual says it supports

720p60 Frame packing, Side-by-Side, Top-and-Bottom
720p50 Frame packing, Side-by-Side, Top-and-Bottom
720p24 Frame packing, Side-by-Side, Top-and-Bottom
720p25 Frame packing, Side-by-Side, Top-and-Bottom
720p30 Frame packing, Side-by-Side, Top-and-Bottom
1080i60 Side-by-Side
1080i50 Side-by-Side
1080p24 Frame packing, Side-by-Side, Top-and-Bottom
1080p25 Frame packing, Side-by-Side, Top-and-Bottom
1080p30 Frame packing, Side-by-Side, Top-and-Bottom

Is that incorrect?


Eric, those are the resolutions it accepts as input. It only outputs 720p/60 or 720p/120.


Hate to say it, but that makes,even less sense. This box does scaling and frame rate conversions at that price? Going from 1080p/25 to 720p/60 isn't exactly a light task for a sub $500 piece of equipment
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EricL




Joined: 23 Aug 2011
Posts: 15
Location: Tampa,FL


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just to be clear, I typed that earlier response from my phone and it wasn't complete. My issue/question is why if they can do frame rate and resolution conversions like that would they clip themselves off from the european market entirely by not outputting the PAL 720p/50 and 720p/100 as well? It doesn't quite make sense. Not arguing that it lacks the capability, but it doesn't make sense, and i'd think that taking 720p/25 or 50 input and outputting it at 720p/50 or 100 would be childs play.
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17850
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My understanding (from the lead developer) is that any Euro HDTV that does 720p/50 will also do 720p/60, so there's no need to support 720p/50. I would assume the same with the 720p/100 -> 720p/120 difference (but am unsure about that).

Kal

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