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Somebody explain this Dallas chip thing to me
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jeffslife




Joined: 17 Apr 2010
Posts: 4181
Location: ohio usa


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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I cant now I gotta go to my fathers, will check tonight though, THANKS.

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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac needs to confirm for us, but I think DigiKey has two parts that should also work...

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?vendor=0&keywords=M48Z128Y

About $32. I think it's the same SRAM part, but in 70- and 85ns speeds, so should be backward-compatible with the 120ns SRAM in the G70... I think the 120ns part is obsolete/discontinued.

Guys... Does the Dallas chip also store the serial number and hours? I don't care so much about the setup... It's an afternoon to redo the setup... But it would kind of be a bummer to lose the hour counter and serial number.

How expensive are the programmers to read the old chip and write to the new one?

Oh, and is the lifespan the same on the chip battery regardless of whether the projector is plugged in 24/7? I think my projector was sitting in a road case and not plugged in for most of 10 years before I got it... Wondering if I'm ripe for failure...

Thanks,
SC
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HaydnG90




Joined: 22 May 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I think if your Dallas chip takes a dump you lose hours and calibration data (at least in the G90). Another reason to make sure its swapped out before the LI-ION battery dies.

Programmers are cheap.

The battery comes 'alive' as soon as its plugged in and turned on for the first time. As soon as that happens the clock starts ticking. 8-10 years is a reasonable expectation of lifespan. After that you're on borrowed time. And yes, makes no difference if the pj is plugged in the entire 10 years.
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's what I figured... Good to know.

So, anybody got a link to a programmer or manufacturer/model data I search on... Ebay, perhaps? Everything I'm coming up with is in the hundreds of dollars; of course, I have no idea what the hell I'm looking for. Would something like this work?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280627978750

Are there any "sdram for noobs" tuts out there? Wink

Thanks!!!

SC
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HaydnG90




Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 1335



PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that one on Ebay would work. Price is about right.
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool! Thanks, Haydon! (Hayden?)

Obviously, these machines are WAY older than 10 years now, so I suppose this isn't something I should put off too long.

I wonder why we don't hear of more G70's succumbing to Dallas chip battery failure... Question

SC
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HaydnG90




Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 1335



PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually its Haydn.

That's why I qualified my earlier remark about it being true for the G90. The G70 may store some its data in a different way. I've never owned a G70 and only know what I know about some of the technical aspects of G90 design through the IC421/YA board debacle.
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macgyver655




Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508



PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's put on the brakes here fellas. A programmer is not always a programmer. The cheaper devices, also including the one I use is not a universal programmer, meaning you cant just put in any old chip and it will read or write to. These cheaper ones are more of a player, meaning the software that comes with it must contain the chips info that you want to read or write. If your chip is not listed then you cant do anything with it.

Also that programmer Steve is from China and although a lot of stuff is made there I wouldn't buy a programmer from there unless I had no other choice.

When your ready to buy one let me know and I'll tell you where to get it from. One like mine runs around 70 bucks plus adapters.
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Xeus




Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 111
Location: N.E. Wisconsin


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I have what may be a dumb question, can't you just sit down with a pad of paper and write down the settings? I did this for my NEC pg xtra and my Runco DTV-852. If a component failure and repair causes a loss of setup data all I need to do is pull out my notes and run down the list and dial her back in. This won't do anything for the run hours but it won't cost anything either.

Matt


Last edited by Xeus on Sat Apr 16, 2011 6:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jeffslife




Joined: 17 Apr 2010
Posts: 4181
Location: ohio usa


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh no you dont, that is a legit question. ONLY I get to ask dumb questions around here.
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mc86




Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 765
Location: pittsburgh, pa

TV/Projector: ECP 4500 (Vidikron box), ECP4500+, wanting 07MS/07MTS, evaluating pc soft-blend


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All -

More data on the actual duration of these chips when they fail or even were working when removed...although replacing at 10 years is easy enough given the at-present low cost of doing so.

In my ECP research on AVS archives I saw that Dallas chips in those seemed to fail at closer to 13-15 years. Mine was working at 12 years when I replaced it. That said, the thread below a lot of detail on the how-to of replacement in G90.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9611

Matt
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jeffslife




Joined: 17 Apr 2010
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PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK but what about my G70 ?
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jarseneau




Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 323
Location: WI


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xeus wrote:
Ok, I have what may be a dumb question, can't you just sit down with a pad of paper and write down the settings? I did this for my NEC pg xtra and my Runco DTV-852. If a component failure and repair causes a loss of setup data all I need to do is pull out my notes and run down the list and dial her back in. This won't do anything for the run hours but it won't cost anything either.

Matt


Yes, this would mostly work but for hours and serial number info. The other thing to consider is that the G90 (maybe the G70 also) has more that 1 level of service mode which reveal more settings that would be missed unless you were in Uber-master Pro mode.

MC86, I'm pretty sure Craig Rounds (aka CIR-Engineering) will take your existing Dallas chip and send you a new one with your data loaded for a nominal fee. When he did it for me the turnaround was about 4 days. About as fast as shipping it to him and back could be.

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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys,

I get confused sometimes on what is on the G70 Dallas chip. If it is the same as the G90 data than it is all your setup memories, serial number, hour counter, and a few other things.

You can always go with a faster chip (you can use 100 or 85ms instead of 120) or even a slower chip is fine in the projectors. However, there are lots of Dallas chips out there that are very old and their batteries can be in rough shape right out of the box. The battery is not supposed to be enabled until the first time the IC is programmed, but sometimes the batteries are still dead right out of the box or almost dead. I got 25 Dallas chips a couple years ago and didn't need them for more than a year. When I went to use them every single one was bad and the vendor would not take them back because it had been more than a year. I ate a lot of Dallas cash on that one Sad I have also got batches of Dallas chips where some would hold data for a few days and then lose their data suddenly.

The battery is supposed to last 10 years but they usually last longer. However, I have clients who have lost their Dallas battery in just eight years so sometimes the batteries do not last as long as they are supposed to. It does not matter if the projector is plugged in or not. The battery life is not affected.

I would not suggest buying a cheap programmer. There are many pitfalls with these including deriving voltage from the USB port which can be inaccurate. You can also wind up scrambling your Dallas chip and losing all data. Occasionally this even can happen with a good programmer.

About a year ago I had finished doing a G90 calibration, and I often back up the chip when I am finished so the client has a copy of the calibration off the projector. When I read the Dallas chip it fried and I had to start all over including a new chip... two days work in one day uggg!

Cheap programmers are ok if the things you are doing are not very important or if you are transferring data from a PC to a chip. But when you need valuable data where the only copy that exists is on the IC, than I recommend staying away from cheap IC programmers.

I do offer the service of copying a Dallas chip to folks who send them to me. I always send back a new Dallas chip, your original Dallas chip, and I email you a copy of the Dallas dump file (a .BIN file) that can be programmed onto a Dallas chip later at any time.

If you hire me to do calibration work and also have me change a Dallas chip at the same time I always provide the service after the calibration is finished so that you have a copy of my calibration work. And then I write the calibration to a new Dallas chip and install it. This way you wind up with two Dallas chips with your calibration along with the BIN file.

In my own G90 I keep my Dallas chip in a ZIF socket so that I can back it up periodically. I also back it up if I am going to try a radical experiment with settings in the projector so that if I do not like the outcome I can restore my previous calibration with zero effort. This lends well to learning so that I can try new things that otherwise might be risky or time consuming.

There are several memory blocks in the G90 and G70, but the only one that is actually volatile is on the Dallas chip. If you have a copy of the Dallas chip all the other settings can be restored from backups on the control board.

If you decide to try and find your own Dallas chip at leas make sure it is a "+" chip. This means that it is ROHS which is the newer lead free standard for IC's that was forced into play by the EU. It does not matter if the chip has lead in it or not, but what the + for ROHS means is that the chip is at least not ancient and is probably pretty new. The trouble is that many web pages say that the chip is like a 100+, but when you actually get your chip there is no + on it. This means that the chip is old and you have to start searching again. I often order one piece from a vendor to see what they send and if I get + chips I order more.

Kind regards,
craigr

_________________
*NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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Electrogeek




Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 104
Location: Hamilton New Zealand


PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:48 am    Post subject: d50? Reply with quote

does this apply to the d50?
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macgyver655




Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508



PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CIR Engineering wrote:
Hey guys,

I get confused sometimes on what is on the G70 Dallas chip. If it is the same as the G90 data than it is all your setup memories, serial number, hour counter, and a few other things.

You can always go with a faster chip (you can use 100 or 85ms instead of 120) or even a slower chip is fine in the projectors. However, there are lots of Dallas chips out there that are very old and their batteries can be in rough shape right out of the box. The battery is not supposed to be enabled until the first time the IC is programmed, but sometimes the batteries are still dead right out of the box or almost dead. I got 25 Dallas chips a couple years ago and didn't need them for more than a year. When I went to use them every single one was bad and the vendor would not take them back because it had been more than a year. I ate a lot of Dallas cash on that one Sad I have also got batches of Dallas chips where some would hold data for a few days and then lose their data suddenly.

The battery is supposed to last 10 years but they usually last longer. However, I have clients who have lost their Dallas battery in just eight years so sometimes the batteries do not last as long as they are supposed to. It does not matter if the projector is plugged in or not. The battery life is not affected.

I would not suggest buying a cheap programmer. There are many pitfalls with these including deriving voltage from the USB port which can be inaccurate. You can also wind up scrambling your Dallas chip and losing all data. Occasionally this even can happen with a good programmer.

About a year ago I had finished doing a G90 calibration, and I often back up the chip when I am finished so the client has a copy of the calibration off the projector. When I read the Dallas chip it fried and I had to start all over including a new chip... two days work in one day uggg!

Cheap programmers are ok if the things you are doing are not very important or if you are transferring data from a PC to a chip. But when you need valuable data where the only copy that exists is on the IC, than I recommend staying away from cheap IC programmers.

I do offer the service of copying a Dallas chip to folks who send them to me. I always send back a new Dallas chip, your original Dallas chip, and I email you a copy of the Dallas dump file (a .BIN file) that can be programmed onto a Dallas chip later at any time.

If you hire me to do calibration work and also have me change a Dallas chip at the same time I always provide the service after the calibration is finished so that you have a copy of my calibration work. And then I write the calibration to a new Dallas chip and install it. This way you wind up with two Dallas chips with your calibration along with the BIN file.

In my own G90 I keep my Dallas chip in a ZIF socket so that I can back it up periodically. I also back it up if I am going to try a radical experiment with settings in the projector so that if I do not like the outcome I can restore my previous calibration with zero effort. This lends well to learning so that I can try new things that otherwise might be risky or time consuming.

There are several memory blocks in the G90 and G70, but the only one that is actually volatile is on the Dallas chip. If you have a copy of the Dallas chip all the other settings can be restored from backups on the control board.

If you decide to try and find your own Dallas chip at leas make sure it is a "+" chip. This means that it is ROHS which is the newer lead free standard for IC's that was forced into play by the EU. It does not matter if the chip has lead in it or not, but what the + for ROHS means is that the chip is at least not ancient and is probably pretty new. The trouble is that many web pages say that the chip is like a 100+, but when you actually get your chip there is no + on it. This means that the chip is old and you have to start searching again. I often order one piece from a vendor to see what they send and if I get + chips I order more.

Kind regards,
craigr



I'm curious what you mean by a cheap programmer? I consider mine cheap in price but a phenomenal programmer.

From what you describe in this post it sounds more like your having programmer problems.
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

macgyver655 wrote:

I'm curious what you mean by a cheap programmer? I consider mine cheap in price but a phenomenal programmer.

From what you describe in this post it sounds more like your having programmer problems.

I've use a lot of programmers for many purposes over the years and generally speaking I find you get what you pay for. I would think there are most likely inexpensive programmers that are fine or good, but I will let others be the judge of that.

And yes, I have had problems with many programmers in the past Wink However, one of my favorite programmers was the PocketProgrammerII, but it used a parallel port and I don't have a laptop with a parallel port anymore so I sold that one. I don't remember which one I am using now and I am in California so I can't look for you right now.

Kind regards,

craigr

_________________
*NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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macgyver655




Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508



PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CIR Engineering wrote:
macgyver655 wrote:

I'm curious what you mean by a cheap programmer? I consider mine cheap in price but a phenomenal programmer.

From what you describe in this post it sounds more like your having programmer problems.

I've use a lot of programmers for many purposes over the years and generally speaking I find you get what you pay for. I would think there are most likely inexpensive programmers that are fine or good, but I will let others be the judge of that.

And yes, I have had problems with many programmers in the past Wink However, one of my favorite programmers was the PocketProgrammerII, but it used a parallel port and I don't have a laptop with a parallel port anymore so I sold that one. I don't remember which one I am using now and I am in California so I can't look for you right now.

Kind regards,

craigr



Well maybe it's time to buy a real programmer like the one I have........... Laughing

j/k.........................
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Gannon




Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 164
Location: Detroit or the Interstates


PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do we know of any other brands that used this chip?

NEC/Runco, Barco, Zenith, or even Dwin?!

It'd be nice to have a log of what to check and update when servicing these older sets.


Thanks for the information so far...and I'm keeping an old Dell laptop alive BECAUSE it has all those ports on it, LOL! My old WinXP bitch and her parts mule sister...


Cheers,
John
Detroit

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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

macgyver655 wrote:
CIR Engineering wrote:
macgyver655 wrote:

I'm curious what you mean by a cheap programmer? I consider mine cheap in price but a phenomenal programmer.

From what you describe in this post it sounds more like your having programmer problems.

I've use a lot of programmers for many purposes over the years and generally speaking I find you get what you pay for. I would think there are most likely inexpensive programmers that are fine or good, but I will let others be the judge of that.

And yes, I have had problems with many programmers in the past Wink However, one of my favorite programmers was the PocketProgrammerII, but it used a parallel port and I don't have a laptop with a parallel port anymore so I sold that one. I don't remember which one I am using now and I am in California so I can't look for you right now.

Kind regards,

craigr



Well maybe it's time to buy a real programmer like the one I have........... Laughing

j/k.........................

Hey Mac, I love tools! But really good programmers are hugely expensive as you know... I usually try and find a reasonably price one (less than $500) that can do the jobs I need. If I had bought a really great one 10 years ago I might still be using it though Wink

craigr

_________________
*NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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