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beun
Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 676
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JustGreg
Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 3098 Location: Kenosha, WI
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:31 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for your gracious reply.
I totally agree about the woodworking skills being important to eye candy but I would VERY humbly disagree with that affecting the sound in a critical way. I guess I get that the framing of the panels needs to be rigid so as to project not absorb but would the wood be that critical unless you chose to go with an integrated conventional driver for sub capabilities? (More of a question than a statement!) I would think the attention to detail when it comes to front and rear stator materials and spacing (and shorts if not done right!) would be the most critical aspect as opposed to quality cabinetry skills?
I only offer my inexperienced opinions to keep this most excellent post alive (and pick your brain in the process... ) so I hope you take my replies in the spirit in which I intended. I can tell from your emphasis on cabinet making that you have the construction and mechanics skills of the ESL assemblies down pat and can understand why you put such emphasis on the quality of the enclosure.
That said, couldn't an ESL project be just as successful even if 'bottom feeder' wood was used? I mean, would the type of wood be really that critical to the quality of the project if the builder didn't really care too much about building fine furniture? Let's say the builder decides he wants to paint them flat black matte so therefore why spend the money for exotic lumber?
Thanks in advance for suffering my questions.
BTW...that is a one NICE looking garage workshop! Well done!
_________________ Greg
"Is it ignorance or apathy? Hey, I don't know and I don't care!" --Jimmy Buffett
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beun
Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 676
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:04 am Post subject: |
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Greg,
I don't think I was trying to imply that the wood made a huge sonic difference for an ESL because you are right it doesn't. It is for eye candy and a professional look, it also helps the WAF by the way.
The frame does have to be strong though, the curved stators do exert some serious force and you don't want the frame to bend over time and change the geometry of the speaker panels itself. My original design used a 3"x2" (I need to check it was originally in metric) hardwood vertical beams which even after 25 years do not bend, alas nowadays this stuff cannot be bought anymore. The new design therefore uses a 3/4" vertical side panels and a doubled up 3/4" beam in a T-configuration for dimensional stability.
Thanks for your praise on the garage workshop, unfortunately I have to share it with the cars so when I need it for wood working I need to move everything around.
_________________ ESL-0.5 Full Range Electrostatic Loudspeakers | RTC2200 Component to VGA Converter with Gamma Boost
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JustGreg
Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 3098 Location: Kenosha, WI
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:14 am Post subject: |
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beun wrote: | Greg,
I don't think I was trying to imply that the wood made a huge sonic difference for an ESL because you are right it doesn't. It is for eye candy and a professional look, it also helps the WAF by the way.
The frame does have to be strong though, the curved stators do exert some serious force and you don't want the frame to bend over time and change the geometry of the speaker panels itself. My original design used a 3"x2" (I need to check it was originally in metric) hardwood vertical beams which even after 25 years do not bend, alas nowadays this stuff cannot be bought anymore. The new design therefore uses a 3/4" vertical side panels and a doubled up 3/4" beam in a T-configuration for dimensional stability.
Thanks for your praise on the garage workshop, unfortunately I have to share it with the cars so when I need it for wood working I need to move everything around. |
Nope you didn't imply that. My apologies. Sometimes I speak in hieroglyphics.
I can't WAIT to get around to building these! The good news for me is that short of a short (pun intended) I'm half freeking deaf, with tinnitus to boot, so even if you'd probably throw my set into a river I'll bet they sound awesome to me.
And...I'm about as anal as anal gets so I'd want my cab's to be built from the best materials I can afford to make them as visually pleasing as they are accoustically impressive.
I DIDN'T know the frames could distort over time though. Interesting. That's awesome to me though! That little nugget alone makes it an even more fun and challenging project!
_________________ Greg
"Is it ignorance or apathy? Hey, I don't know and I don't care!" --Jimmy Buffett
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Tom.W
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 6637
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:28 am Post subject: |
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beun wrote: | Greg,
The frame does have to be strong though, the curved stators do exert some serious force and you don't want the frame to bend over time and change the geometry of the speaker panels itself. My original design used a 3"x2" (I need to check it was originally in metric) hardwood vertical beams which even after 25 years do not bend, alas nowadays this stuff cannot be bought anymore. The new design therefore uses a 3/4" vertical side panels and a doubled up 3/4" beam in a T-configuration for dimensional stability.
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Why so hard to find and what wood ?
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beun
Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 676
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Tom,
To be honest, I don't remember the name it was more than 20 years ago after all, but is wasn't a common one I do remember that. Is is an amazing wood though, it is dense, it doesn't warp or rot and it has an enormously high friction. Without pre-drilling it is impossible to get in any screw, they go in an inch or so and then you either strip the head or break the screw.
_________________ ESL-0.5 Full Range Electrostatic Loudspeakers | RTC2200 Component to VGA Converter with Gamma Boost
Last edited by beun on Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 5643 Location: Comedy Central
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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Some of the DIY guys were going to bamboo .
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Tom.W
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 6637
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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beun wrote: | Tom,
To be honest, I don't remember the name it was more than 20 years ago after all, but is wasn't a common one I do remember that. Is is an amazing wood though, it is dense, it doesn't warp or rot and it has an enormously high friction. Without pre-drilling it is impossible to get in any screw, they go in an inch or so and then you either strip the head of break the screw. |
Sounds like ironwood....
http://waynesword.palomar.edu/plsept99.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironwood
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Tom.W
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 6637
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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I use to have missionary neighbors across the street that collected several artifacts,over many years, here and they wrote a book about it called Incessant Drumbeat .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Papua_%28region%29
They gave me a very old 5 ft bow and arrow set hand carved from ironwood by the local headhunters....A VERY hard wood and a bit of a long story but I digress.....
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jeffslife
Joined: 17 Apr 2010 Posts: 4181 Location: ohio usa
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Link Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe locust.
_________________ We are ALL job creators !
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beun
Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 676
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beun
Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 676
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beun
Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 676
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Link Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:41 am Post subject: |
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I got a late start today as life (and the wife) got in the way. She absolutely wanted a new patio set so we had to drive around to find one, pack it in the car, bring it back home and put it together. So after that I finally got the time to finish the other three side panels: first do a rough cut and then use the router to copy the first one.
Copy and paste three times and now we have four of them
The veneer sample I received turned out to be raw veneer instead of the paper backed that I had thought I ordered. This will take a bit longer to finish as I have to flatten it first. I should also get some other glue but it is only for a sample so I don't think I need to.
_________________ ESL-0.5 Full Range Electrostatic Loudspeakers | RTC2200 Component to VGA Converter with Gamma Boost
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Tom.W
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 6637
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Link Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:12 am Post subject: |
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Beun can you describe the power supply you are using and the spacing of the elements and why ?
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beun
Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 676
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beun
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beun
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beun
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Tom.W
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 6637
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Link Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:48 am Post subject: |
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beun wrote: | I just received a shipment of really strong polyester tape to stretch up the membrane. Also, the veneer glue is on its way as well. |
What kind of glue for the veneer ?
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beun
Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 676
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