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Tom.W
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 6637
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 Link Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| dturco wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | get the 95 and who cares what Wan say's!! Just be sure you can afford it now, don't dig into your savings. Remember, times are tough!!!
Athanasios |
All to true. But this won't cost me a dime the things I have sold on ebay are paying for it. So really just traded some stuff to get some other stuff. |
Do you have a pair of balanced stereo inputs on your amp ?
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dturco
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 3779
Location: Eastern Shore Maryland
TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner
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| Link Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Tom.W wrote: | | dturco wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | get the 95 and who cares what Wan say's!! Just be sure you can afford it now, don't dig into your savings. Remember, times are tough!!!
Athanasios |
All to true. But this won't cost me a dime the things I have sold on ebay are paying for it. So really just traded some stuff to get some other stuff. |
Do you have a pair of balanced stereo inputs on your amp ? |
No I don't. That's the thing that is keeping me from jumping on the 95. There will be no difference in what it can do over RCA jacks and where it does perform better is well above my hearing range. What is keeping me very interested is I am a GEAR PIG. I like the way it looks and love the way it is built.
Also let's not forget RON W gave me/us the website that did this testing, helping us out with what, and why we/me are choosing.
I'm still in the holding pattern. 
_________________
Firefly rules. Can't stop the signal.
http://www.hulu.com/firefly
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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Ron W
Joined: 07 Aug 2009
Posts: 807
Location: Mississauga
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| Link Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:54 am Post subject: |
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I am continually amazed that a small company like Oppo can do what they do and continually up the ante in the price/performance ratio from model to model and these two(93/95) are certainly no exception . When the 95, in particular, comes ready for general sale to the public and the reviews start, I will be more than casually interested as to what the so-called "audiophile press" and their avid followers are going to say now about just the audio performance alone and the specs of this player. These of course, are the ones that always state you must spend at least $4000-5000 for a Denon, Marantz or others to get that ultimate analog performance from a multi-purpose player. A $999.00 player that looks and sounds like this one that will match or even exceed the above in ALL categories?
No doubt, unless they still continue to be in a state of denial, they are certainly going to be in for a rude awakening. Of course, then again, who am I kidding. Some of these are the same group that purchased a $3500 Lexicon which was essentially a re-badged $499 Oppo BDP83 and, no matter the irrefutable evidence to the contrary, still attempted to convince themselves the Lexicon was a much superior player and worth all that extra money.
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erikjohn
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 636
Location: Florida
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| Link Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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I have the BDP-93 hooked up through my RX-V9 via 8-ch inputs(for DTS Master, True HD and SACD) and the digital coax and I am extremely happy with it. I have done a lot of trolling on OPPO threads and from what I understand unless you are doing a lot of 2-channel listening you may not realize any difference in the two units. Not to mention you pretty much need the creme-de-la-creme of gear to notice the subtleties between the two. This was pretty much confirmed in the recent review. The 95 is sweet though and if money isn't a big deal and you want the best, i would go for it.
Erik
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EJ
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Ron W
Joined: 07 Aug 2009
Posts: 807
Location: Mississauga
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| Link Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| erikjohn wrote: | I have the BDP-93 hooked up through my RX-V9 via 8-ch inputs(for DTS Master, True HD and SACD) and the digital coax and I am extremely happy with it. I have done a lot of trolling on OPPO threads and from what I understand unless you are doing a lot of 2-channel listening you may not realize any difference in the two units. Not to mention you pretty much need the creme-de-la-creme of gear to notice the subtleties between the two. This was pretty much confirmed in the recent review. The 95 is sweet though and if money isn't a big deal and you want the best, i would go for it.
Erik |
You have tweaked my curiosity here, if you already have the BDP93 connected through the AVR via the analog inputs, why the coax as well? On the surface, it seems rather redundant and unnecessary. In this configuration you have to make a choice of output and set-up in the player's menu either analog or bitstream, however, according to your set-up here, since the player is doing ALL of the decoding, you will only be able to get the lossless audio through the analog outputs from the player, not coax. Coax is a compressed digital bitstream and is not capable of outputting Dolby TruHD or DTS HD/Master audio or SACD with this player or for that matter any other BRP. The only way it could be done digitally from the player is with an HDMI connection through a newer model AVR which is at least capable, at minimum, to receive an LPCM signal.
Perhaps I am missing something here but, just wondering.
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erikjohn
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 636
Location: Florida
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| Link Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Ron W wrote: | | erikjohn wrote: | I have the BDP-93 hooked up through my RX-V9 via 8-ch inputs(for DTS Master, True HD and SACD) and the digital coax and I am extremely happy with it. I have done a lot of trolling on OPPO threads and from what I understand unless you are doing a lot of 2-channel listening you may not realize any difference in the two units. Not to mention you pretty much need the creme-de-la-creme of gear to notice the subtleties between the two. This was pretty much confirmed in the recent review. The 95 is sweet though and if money isn't a big deal and you want the best, i would go for it.
Erik |
You have tweaked my curiosity here, if you already have the BDP93 connected through the AVR via the analog inputs, why the coax as well? On the surface, it seems rather redundant and unnecessary. In this configuration you have to make a choice of output and set-up in the player's menu either analog or bitstream, however, according to your set-up here, since the player is doing ALL of the decoding, you will only be able to get the lossless audio through the analog outputs from the player, not coax. Coax is a compressed digital bitstream and is not capable of outputting Dolby TruHD or DTS HD/Master audio or SACD with this player or for that matter any other BRP. The only way it could be done digitally from the player is with an HDMI connection through a newer model AVR which is at least capable, at minimum, to receive an LPCM signal.
Perhaps I am missing something here but, just wondering. |
Just as an FYI, the player outputs decoded analog and digital bitstream simultaneously. I use the 8-CH outs for the lossless audio codecs and SACD, everything else I let the Z9 decode and then process. Granted, I can still use all of my processing capabilities with the 8-CH inputs on the Z9 but that adds one more conversion into the mix that I don't see as necessary when listening to formats that my Z9 can decode.
Erik
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EJ
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Ron W
Joined: 07 Aug 2009
Posts: 807
Location: Mississauga
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| Link Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| erikjohn wrote: | | Ron W wrote: | | erikjohn wrote: | I have the BDP-93 hooked up through my RX-V9 via 8-ch inputs(for DTS Master, True HD and SACD) and the digital coax and I am extremely happy with it. I have done a lot of trolling on OPPO threads and from what I understand unless you are doing a lot of 2-channel listening you may not realize any difference in the two units. Not to mention you pretty much need the creme-de-la-creme of gear to notice the subtleties between the two. This was pretty much confirmed in the recent review. The 95 is sweet though and if money isn't a big deal and you want the best, i would go for it.
Erik |
You have tweaked my curiosity here, if you already have the BDP93 connected through the AVR via the analog inputs, why the coax as well? On the surface, it seems rather redundant and unnecessary. In this configuration you have to make a choice of output and set-up in the player's menu either analog or bitstream, however, according to your set-up here, since the player is doing ALL of the decoding, you will only be able to get the lossless audio through the analog outputs from the player, not coax. Coax is a compressed digital bitstream and is not capable of outputting Dolby TruHD or DTS HD/Master audio or SACD with this player or for that matter any other BRP. The only way it could be done digitally from the player is with an HDMI connection through a newer model AVR which is at least capable, at minimum, to receive an LPCM signal.
Perhaps I am missing something here but, just wondering. |
Just as an FYI, the player outputs decoded analog and digital bitstream simultaneously. I use the 8-CH outs for the lossless audio codecs and SACD, everything else I let the Z9 decode and then process. Granted, I can still use all of my processing capabilities with the 8-CH inputs on the Z9 but that adds one more conversion into the mix that I don't see as necessary when listening to formats that my Z9 can decode.
Erik |
Hi Erik:
Certainly not to belabor a point here but the decoding and conversion(once) for all surround formats, is already done within the player and sent out through the Z9 analog inputs(I am assuming its a Yamaha and I have owned several over the years), unless they have changed the internal electronics in recent models, these inputs are strictly "pass through" connections with no processing. You are actually going through an extra conversion with the coax connection since after the AVRs processing, it has to convert it back to analog for output to the amps and speakers. This has already been done in the player itself. Either way there probably will be no audible difference, it is just a matter of convenience and eliminating an extra cable. One disadvantage of using the player for analog outs is its limited bass management capabilities which any AVR/Pre-Pro and its digital connections will give you with considerable extra versatility. Also, should you like to use them, the analog connections don't give you the option of integrating the Yamaha's DSP soundfields.
Anyway, should you decide sometime in the future to upgrade your AVR to one of the new models with HDMI inputs(the new Yamahas look good), then you can hook everything up via a single HDMI cable and all this discussion will be moot.
Strangely enough, if you are a fan of Yamaha AVRs, even in their most current models, the Yamaha DSP soundfields are not available for overlay on any of the BR lossless surround formats, only compressed DTS and DD and I can't seem to get an explanation why?
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erikjohn
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 636
Location: Florida
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| Link Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Ron W wrote: |
Hi Erik:
Certainly not to belabor a point here but the decoding and conversion(once) for all surround formats, is already done within the player and sent out through the Z9 analog inputs(I am assuming its a Yamaha and I have owned several over the years), unless they have changed the internal electronics in recent models, these inputs are strictly "pass through" connections with no processing. You are actually going through an extra conversion with the coax connection since after the AVRs processing, it has to convert it back to analog for output to the amps and speakers. This has already been done in the player itself. Either way there probably will be no audible difference, it is just a matter of convenience and eliminating an extra cable. One disadvantage of using the player for analog outs is its limited bass management capabilities which any AVR/Pre-Pro and its digital connections will give you with considerable extra versatility. Also, should you like to use them, the analog connections don't give you the option of integrating the Yamaha's DSP soundfields.
Anyway, should you decide sometime in the future to upgrade your AVR to one of the new models with HDMI inputs(the new Yamahas look good), then you can hook everything up via a single HDMI cable and all this discussion will be moot.
Strangely enough, if you are a fan of Yamaha AVRs, even in their most current models, the Yamaha DSP soundfields are not available for overlay on any of the BR lossless surround formats, only compressed DTS and DD and I can't seem to get an explanation why? |
The Z9 is a flagship model and I can add processing to the 8-ch inputs and any other signal I throw at it(including add my height channels to it). Not really interested in a new model just for HDMI, thus the reason I got the 93 for the lossless codecs unless I was to go with the Z11 which I am not interested in at this time. I can also manage the bass on the 8-ch inputs on the Z9. I can pretty much do whatever I want with the Z9  .
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amps/rx/rx-z9_black__u/?mode=model
Download the brochure and see page 4 top left.
As far as converting back to analog, no matter which unit is doing the decoding one of them has to covert to analog. Here's the deal, I like to use the signal processing(soundfield plus presence/height channels), so I am converting the analog from 8-ch back to digital to process then back to analog to listen. I would rather not have all of the conversions if I do not have to thus the reason for using the digital connection for formats the receiver can deal with, then it comes in straight digital from the BDP-93(no processing), gets decoded and processed in the Z9 and then to analog.
Erik
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EJ
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Ron W
Joined: 07 Aug 2009
Posts: 807
Location: Mississauga
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| Link Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Erik;
Thanks for the info, the concept of being able to do some processing on the analog inputs is certainly a change in Yamaha's philosophy from previous models to the Z9 even their flagship ones. In that case, your connection methods do provide you with the best of all worlds. Incidentally, I almost bought the Z9, however, "budget constraints" (WAF) at the time prevented me from doing so. The Z11 was far too much money and with it being a flagship model with some of the original HDMI input configurations, soon after I started to read quite a bit about it on the forums and the HDMI connectivity issues it was having and apparently still does to this day. HDMI connections can be finnicky at best even with modern AVRs but the Z11 had more than its share of issues. I am glad I didn't consider it.
Anyway, carry on and have fun.
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erikjohn
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 636
Location: Florida
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| Link Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Ron W wrote: | Hi Erik;
Thanks for the info, the concept of being able to do some processing on the analog inputs is certainly a change in Yamaha's philosophy from previous models to the Z9 even their flagship ones. In that case, your connection methods do provide you with the best of all worlds. Incidentally, I almost bought the Z9, however, "budget constraints" (WAF) at the time prevented me from doing so. The Z11 was far too much money and with it being a flagship model with some of the original HDMI input configurations, soon after I started to read quite a bit about it on the forums and the HDMI connectivity issues it was having and apparently still does to this day. HDMI connections can be finnicky at best even with modern AVRs but the Z11 had more than its share of issues. I am glad I didn't consider it.
Anyway, carry on and have fun. |
No worries!
I also love the BDP-93 because I can rip blurays right to hdd and play them with menus and everything just like the original disc.
Erik
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EJ
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dturco
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 3779
Location: Eastern Shore Maryland
TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner
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| Link Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:41 am Post subject: |
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Man people are nuts. This guy reminds me of Nashou, I can make it better. Look ..seee this cap and this ferrite bead. Man the player isn't even in his hands. He has no idea what it sounds like, or acts like, but...I can make it better.
Some dude on Blu-Ray .com Wrote:
| Quote: | Well, at this point, I only want to comment my thoughts about audio board modifications... Starting from the power input and on as:
1. add clamp on ferrite beads on both the main board and audio board power supply (this will reduce the HF interference between two power supplies).
2.on the audio supply board, I will change all diodes to either Vishay ones (I forgot the model number..), or Fairchild "Stealth" series diodes.
3. by-pass each diodes by 0.1 uF, WIMA MKP caps.
4. (maybe) change all power supply caps to (ELNA are very good caps, but used as power supply caps are not my choice).
5. change all regulator on the power supply to the ones made by Linear Semiconductor.
On the audio board (only to Stereo RCA/XLR parts)...
1. regulators to Linear Semiconductor
2. ESS power supply caps to solid polymer caps (2nd generation OS-CON)
3. change all metal film resistors to Dale RN55 series (same values)
4. change all jumper to either Dale 0 ohm jumper or pure silver wires.
5. (maybe) change all polystyrene HF compensation cap to CDE silver mica ones.
6. change all "no-name" electrolytic OP amps power supply caps to Panasonic FM series. (Oppo says they have name, but they do not want to tell me, but, those caps does not meet MY standard. They look like cheap chinese caps to me).
And I am investigating the possibility of adding a word clock input so that I can use my external clocks. I do feel ESS still cannot completely solve the jitter problem, even though they claims that 9018 has special DPLL circuitry to eliminate the jitter (I am listening from RCA out now. I do not want to test the XLR outputs and mod my super rare Quad 240). With "only" $999 it is impossible to get all these functions! (All Quad current dumping amps have to be mod! But that is another story.)
When I mod, I will definitely start changing all rectifying diodes, elco caps (keep the ELNA ones on PS board for comparison), regulators, resistors, but I will not change OP HF compensation polystyrene caps.
Adding word clock input is a big issue here! It may or may not help, a safe way is to change the main clock of BDP-95. I probably will sell my external clocks... |
Hey, Nashou no offense man 
Oh Crap, the dude is from New York too. It's in the water 
_________________
Firefly rules. Can't stop the signal.
http://www.hulu.com/firefly
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10273
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| Link Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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How about getting me a hearing aid or newer prescription glasses. Then maybe I could benefit from what I am hearing and seeing.
-- Voice of Reason.
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Trust no one. Absolutely no one. Advice of the board.
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Ron W
Joined: 07 Aug 2009
Posts: 807
Location: Mississauga
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| Link Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| dturco wrote: | Man people are nuts. This guy reminds me of Nashou, I can make it better. Look ..seee this cap and this ferrite bead. Man the player isn't even in his hands. He has no idea what it sounds like, or acts like, but...I can make it better.
Some dude on Blu-Ray .com Wrote:
| Quote: | Well, at this point, I only want to comment my thoughts about audio board modifications... Starting from the power input and on as:
1. add clamp on ferrite beads on both the main board and audio board power supply (this will reduce the HF interference between two power supplies).
2.on the audio supply board, I will change all diodes to either Vishay ones (I forgot the model number..), or Fairchild "Stealth" series diodes.
3. by-pass each diodes by 0.1 uF, WIMA MKP caps.
4. (maybe) change all power supply caps to (ELNA are very good caps, but used as power supply caps are not my choice).
5. change all regulator on the power supply to the ones made by Linear Semiconductor.
On the audio board (only to Stereo RCA/XLR parts)...
1. regulators to Linear Semiconductor
2. ESS power supply caps to solid polymer caps (2nd generation OS-CON)
3. change all metal film resistors to Dale RN55 series (same values)
4. change all jumper to either Dale 0 ohm jumper or pure silver wires.
5. (maybe) change all polystyrene HF compensation cap to CDE silver mica ones.
6. change all "no-name" electrolytic OP amps power supply caps to Panasonic FM series. (Oppo says they have name, but they do not want to tell me, but, those caps does not meet MY standard. They look like cheap chinese caps to me).
And I am investigating the possibility of adding a word clock input so that I can use my external clocks. I do feel ESS still cannot completely solve the jitter problem, even though they claims that 9018 has special DPLL circuitry to eliminate the jitter (I am listening from RCA out now. I do not want to test the XLR outputs and mod my super rare Quad 240). With "only" $999 it is impossible to get all these functions! (All Quad current dumping amps have to be mod! But that is another story.)
When I mod, I will definitely start changing all rectifying diodes, elco caps (keep the ELNA ones on PS board for comparison), regulators, resistors, but I will not change OP HF compensation polystyrene caps.
Adding word clock input is a big issue here! It may or may not help, a safe way is to change the main clock of BDP-95. I probably will sell my external clocks... |
Hey, Nashou no offense man
Oh Crap, the dude is from New York too. It's in the water |
This is hilarious, by spending all this money he thinks he can actually tweak the untweakable. Once he does all this and puts 100 "audiophiles" in to a room to compare it to the original, one can pretty much guarantee that the only one who thinks it is going to sound better is him! This also sounds similar to a guy from a website called "upgrades.com" (I am not totally sure if the name is exactly correct), who claims that by adding more expensive parts to existing equipment from Integra, Marantz AND believe it or not, stuff from Classe and McIntosh that they will "sound better". He actually wants us to believe the parts in specifically, models from Classe and McIntosh can be improved upon and there will be a noticeable audible improvement by making the changes, and in all cases these are the manufacturers flagship units! Like you haven't spent enough money on this equipment already? Of course, all these so-called improvements come at a hefty premium over the store-bought price.
There are, obviously, a couple of major problems though with either of these approaches. Like the clown above who once he starts making his alterations, can kiss his warranty goodbye. Also "Upgrades" is NOT an authorized reseller so their alterations automatically negate the manufacturers warranty so they have to provide their own. There is also the other important issue about future firmware updates when and if they are required. When I E-Mailed the company about this, I never got a reply. That should tell you something.
For all the years I have spent around the A/V business, I still cannot believe there is still people out there that honestly believe this crap!
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dturco
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 3779
Location: Eastern Shore Maryland
TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner
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Tom.W
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 6637
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| Link Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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Just buy the 93 with free shipping from Amazon for $499 and get over it. I really doubt you will have any regrets................
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dturco
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 3779
Location: Eastern Shore Maryland
TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner
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| Link Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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Nah, Tom the last post wasn't frustration, it was amusement at the way the releases work. I am pretty sure at this point if I buy one at all it will be the 95. But, I might not because the Integra isn't broke. It just needed the Power cord fully inserted. I guess I had pulled it loose when removing the Jolida and Lumagen.
So I still don't know
_________________
Firefly rules. Can't stop the signal.
http://www.hulu.com/firefly
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Link Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| erikjohn wrote: | | I also love the BDP-93 because I can rip blurays right to hdd and play them with menus and everything just like the original disc. |
Whoah, wait... What? The way I first read that it sounded like you were ripping BD's on the 93... That would rock. I assume you just mean you're ripping them to HD on a computer, then what... Connecting that HD to the 93, or sharing via network?
Damn, the 93 is looking better and better all the time.
Thanks,
SC
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greg_mitch
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5321
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| Link Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | erikjohn wrote: | | I also love the BDP-93 because I can rip blurays right to hdd and play them with menus and everything just like the original disc. |
Whoah, wait... What? The way I first read that it sounded like you were ripping BD's on the 93... That would rock. I assume you just mean you're ripping them to HD on a computer, then what... Connecting that HD to the 93, or sharing via network?
Damn, the 93 is looking better and better all the time.
Thanks,
SC |
I am still confused...can the 93 play BR ISO files? Can ANYTHING play BR ISO files?
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