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Bob_Collins
Joined: 30 Jun 2010
Posts: 9
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 Link Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:20 pm Post subject: Calibrating Toshiba 40H80 |
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First off, please forgive me if this is posted in the wrong forum, or if my questions are out of line.
I am a bit of a newbie, but I've been using calibration discs on my displays for over 20 years now (started back with laserdiscs), so I understand need for calibration and the basic methodology. I am currently using ColorHCFR with a DTP-94 colorimeter, so I am reasonably serious about achieving a good quality image.
I have a Toshiba 40H80 set (RPTV with component video inputs) which is still going strong and has served me well thus far. This set was one of the first models in which Toshiba hid or disabled the "designer mode" where the majority of tweaks are done, and from what I understand it instead has only the standard "service mode" and an "ADDR mode" where you can make tweaks, but I am missing the map to the ADDR mode which would tell me the locations for the various settings and provide the link from address to the name of the option being changed.
Does anyone have a map of the ADDR mode for the 40H80 set (NOT the TW series)? Does anyone have any tips or tricks for the 40H80 set? Does the 40H80 have any type of CMS (even a very rudimentary one)?
I've run a grayscale calibration and have the 30% & 80% set, but the values in between (40 - 70) show that the blue is too low and my gamma is obviously off. I'd like to bring things into a bit closer level of calibration, but so far have had no luck with sticking only to user controls and those offered by the service mode.
Also, since hooking up my new Oppo BDP-83 and being able to actually check the 1080i signals, I noticed that the size was off a bit. Using the Service mode I adjusted the height & width, and have the overscan set to approx. 5% on all sides, but in doing so, the horizontal lines across the top are now wavy. Again, without any further information on the ADDR mode, I have no way to tweak anything to correct this and the offerings in the service mode seem of no help here.
Any and all assistance, tips, or information would be welcomed, and definitely appreciated.
Thanks in advance!
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Ron W
Joined: 07 Aug 2009
Posts: 807
Location: Mississauga
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| Link Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:17 am Post subject: Re: Calibrating Toshiba 40H80 |
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| Bob_Collins wrote: | First off, please forgive me if this is posted in the wrong forum, or if my questions are out of line.
I am a bit of a newbie, but I've been using calibration discs on my displays for over 20 years now (started back with laserdiscs), so I understand need for calibration and the basic methodology. I am currently using ColorHCFR with a DTP-94 colorimeter, so I am reasonably serious about achieving a good quality image.
I have a Toshiba 40H80 set (RPTV with component video inputs) which is still going strong and has served me well thus far. This set was one of the first models in which Toshiba hid or disabled the "designer mode" where the majority of tweaks are done, and from what I understand it instead has only the standard "service mode" and an "ADDR mode" where you can make tweaks, but I am missing the map to the ADDR mode which would tell me the locations for the various settings and provide the link from address to the name of the option being changed.
Does anyone have a map of the ADDR mode for the 40H80 set (NOT the TW series)? Does anyone have any tips or tricks for the 40H80 set? Does the 40H80 have any type of CMS (even a very rudimentary one)?
I've run a grayscale calibration and have the 30% & 80% set, but the values in between (40 - 70) show that the blue is too low and my gamma is obviously off. I'd like to bring things into a bit closer level of calibration, but so far have had no luck with sticking only to user controls and those offered by the service mode.
Also, since hooking up my new Oppo BDP-83 and being able to actually check the 1080i signals, I noticed that the size was off a bit. Using the Service mode I adjusted the height & width, and have the overscan set to approx. 5% on all sides, but in doing so, the horizontal lines across the top are now wavy. Again, without any further information on the ADDR mode, I have no way to tweak anything to correct this and the offerings in the service mode seem of no help here.
Any and all assistance, tips, or information would be welcomed, and definitely appreciated.
Thanks in advance! |
I have a 65HX81 which is the model that came out a year after yours. I believe the 80 series was the first of the Toshiba widescreen sets. Perhaps you can advise how you are accessing the service mode on your set. I must admit I am not familiar with any "designer mode" since I was able to download a service manual for my set, which you should also be able to do through service manuals .com which will tell you what the function is of many of the internal controls and maybe also a more detailed internal convergence adjustment which will enable you to take care of your wavy lines.
Unfortunately, these sets only give you a high(drive) and low(cut) in colour adjustment which pretty much limits you to reasonable gray scale accuracy in the 30% and 80% range that you mentioned. There are no CMS adjustments of any kind of which I am aware. These internal controls are too course in adjustment anyway so everything else is a big compromise. The only way you can change that is to spend extra bucks on a something else like a VideoEQ, the new Iscan Duo or the more expensive Lumagen product. I have a VideoEQ which, among other things, enables me to make gray scale adjustments at up to eleven points. My set never looked this good even when it was new. Another suggestion, if you have never done it before, is remove the screen and clean off the dust build up on the colour guns. You will be surprised at the result. Any other questions, I would be glad to be of assistance.
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Ron W
Joined: 07 Aug 2009
Posts: 807
Location: Mississauga
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| Link Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:51 am Post subject: Re: Calibrating Toshiba 40H80 |
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| Bob_Collins wrote: | First off, please forgive me if this is posted in the wrong forum, or if my questions are out of line.
I am a bit of a newbie, but I've been using calibration discs on my displays for over 20 years now (started back with laserdiscs), so I understand need for calibration and the basic methodology. I am currently using ColorHCFR with a DTP-94 colorimeter, so I am reasonably serious about achieving a good quality image.
I have a Toshiba 40H80 set (RPTV with component video inputs) which is still going strong and has served me well thus far. This set was one of the first models in which Toshiba hid or disabled the "designer mode" where the majority of tweaks are done, and from what I understand it instead has only the standard "service mode" and an "ADDR mode" where you can make tweaks, but I am missing the map to the ADDR mode which would tell me the locations for the various settings and provide the link from address to the name of the option being changed.
Does anyone have a map of the ADDR mode for the 40H80 set (NOT the TW series)? Does anyone have any tips or tricks for the 40H80 set? Does the 40H80 have any type of CMS (even a very rudimentary one)?
I've run a grayscale calibration and have the 30% & 80% set, but the values in between (40 - 70) show that the blue is too low and my gamma is obviously off. I'd like to bring things into a bit closer level of calibration, but so far have had no luck with sticking only to user controls and those offered by the service mode.
Also, since hooking up my new Oppo BDP-83 and being able to actually check the 1080i signals, I noticed that the size was off a bit. Using the Service mode I adjusted the height & width, and have the overscan set to approx. 5% on all sides, but in doing so, the horizontal lines across the top are now wavy. Again, without any further information on the ADDR mode, I have no way to tweak anything to correct this and the offerings in the service mode seem of no help here.
Any and all assistance, tips, or information would be welcomed, and definitely appreciated.
Thanks in advance! |
I have a 65HX81 Cinema Series 16 X 9 monitor which is one of the models that came out a year after yours. I believe the 80 series was the first of the Toshiba widescreen sets. You stated yours was NOT one of the TW models, so I am assuming yours is a 4:3 set and if it is, are your sure it is 1080i capable? Perhaps you can advise how you are accessing the service mode on your set and what you are seeing on the screen after accessing it. I must admit I am not familiar with any "designer mode" since I was able to download a service manual for my set, which you should also be able to do through "service manuals.com" which will tell you what the function is of many of the internal controls and maybe also a more detailed internal convergence adjustment which will enable you to take care of your wavy lines. This latter feature will depend on the model.
Unfortunately, these sets only give you a high(drive) and low(cut) in colour adjustment which pretty much limits you to reasonable gray scale accuracy in the 30% and 80% range that you mentioned. There are no CMS adjustments of any kind of which I am aware. These internal controls are too course in adjustment anyway so everything else is a big compromise. The only way you can change that is to spend extra bucks on a something else like a VideoEQ, the new Iscan Duo or the more expensive Lumagen product. I have a VideoEQ which, among other things, enables me to make gray scale adjustments at up to eleven points. My set never looked this good even when it was new. Another suggestion, if you have never done it before, is remove the screen and clean off the dust build up on the colour guns. You will be surprised at the result. Any other questions, I would be glad to be of assistance.
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Ron W
Joined: 07 Aug 2009
Posts: 807
Location: Mississauga
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| Link Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:32 am Post subject: 40H80 |
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Just a follow-up to my previous TWO posts(I must have accidentally pressed the submit button twice). I happened to look up this model after I made my comments and having a couple of Toshiba sets of that era, I now realize and remember what this particular model looked like. It is widescreen and 1080i so I stand corrected. My other suggestions of what to do would still apply. Googling this model brings up a lot of "stuff" including access to service manuals.
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Bob_Collins
Joined: 30 Jun 2010
Posts: 9
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| Link Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: 40H80 |
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| Ron W wrote: | | Just a follow-up to my previous TWO posts(I must have accidentally pressed the submit button twice). I happened to look up this model after I made my comments and having a couple of Toshiba sets of that era, I now realize and remember what this particular model looked like. It is widescreen and 1080i so I stand corrected. My other suggestions of what to do would still apply. Googling this model brings up a lot of "stuff" including access to service manuals. |
I have the service manual and schematics for the set, however since there is no "designer mode" and only the addr mode, I have nothing which maps out which address would equate to what value/setting.
To get into service mode, you hit mute on the remote, then hit mute and hold while pressing menu on the TV (an S appears on screen); hit menu again and it changes to the name of item being adjusted and value. CH + / CH - move through the items and Vol + / Vol - will change the value of that item. This is where i can adjust the RGB CUTS & RB Drive settings to try to reign in grayscale and set white balance.
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Ron W
Joined: 07 Aug 2009
Posts: 807
Location: Mississauga
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| Link Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: 40H80 |
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| Bob_Collins wrote: | | Ron W wrote: | | Just a follow-up to my previous TWO posts(I must have accidentally pressed the submit button twice). I happened to look up this model after I made my comments and having a couple of Toshiba sets of that era, I now realize and remember what this particular model looked like. It is widescreen and 1080i so I stand corrected. My other suggestions of what to do would still apply. Googling this model brings up a lot of "stuff" including access to service manuals. |
I have the service manual and schematics for the set, however since there is no "designer mode" and only the addr mode, I have nothing which maps out which address would equate to what value/setting.
To get into service mode, you hit mute on the remote, then hit mute and hold while pressing menu on the TV (an S appears on screen); hit menu again and it changes to the name of item being adjusted and value. CH + / CH - move through the items and Vol + / Vol - will change the value of that item. This is where i can adjust the RGB CUTS & RB Drive settings to try to reign in grayscale and set white balance. |
Hi Bob:
The access to the service menu is identical to mine. Perhaps you can advise when you start moving through the items beyond the RGB cut and drive(CH+)what comes up on the screen and I am assuming by what you are saying the service menu for your model doesn't tell you what their function is. By trial and error I have gone through this entire set of items in this menu and I have learned what most of them are for. One question would be is in your particular model do you have only one universal setting for picture controls regardless of the input or can you do independent picture settings for more than one input? This will determine how many of these internal controls are in the set since in mine there are four independent picture control settings in the regular user menu which duplicates itself in the service menu which has more than 100 potential adjustments and in most cases are not used. Is their also an independent internal access to a more detailed convergence menu? In my case while it is in the service mode with the left hand adjusted item on the screen(not the "S") by hitting "7" a grid comes up the with a flashing colour box. If so, this will enable you to do a more detailed convergence and straighten out the lines.
I know it is tedious but if the manual is not giving you much in the way of description, make a list and give it to me and I can probably tell you what they are and what their function is, otherwise, like myself you would have to go through each item in the service menu via the CH+ button then then hit the volume button in each case, to see what happens on the screen. You would also need to make a record of the present setting so you remember where to come back to in the adjustments, just in case something weird happens.
Here again, I am not sure what the "designer" mode relates to other than referring to maybe certain default settings in the set, but once you start tinkering with the items to bring the set to a "reference" standard in colour and gamma that you are attempting to do, these other settings are irrelevant anyway since they are the ones that came out of the factory. Since the set is still in good working order and if you wish to spend the time, one good thing that can come out of all this is once you become familiar with the settings you can fine tine the picture and potentially get it to be substantially better and more accurate than what it was new right out of the factory.
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Bob_Collins
Joined: 30 Jun 2010
Posts: 9
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| Link Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: 40H80 |
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| Ron W wrote: | [The access to the service menu is identical to mine. Perhaps you can advise when you start moving through the items beyond the RGB cut and drive(CH+)what comes up on the screen and I am assuming by what you are saying the service menu for your model doesn't tell you what their function is. By trial and error I have gone through this entire set of items in this menu and I have learned what most of them are for. One question would be is in your particular model do you have only one universal setting for picture controls regardless of the input or can you do independent picture settings for more than one input? This will determine how many of these internal controls are in the set since in mine there are four independent picture control settings in the regular user menu which duplicates itself in the service menu which has more than 100 potential adjustments and in most cases are not used. Is their also an independent internal access to a more detailed convergence menu? In my case while it is in the service mode with the left hand adjusted item on the screen(not the "S") by hitting "7" a grid comes up the with a flashing colour box. If so, this will enable you to do a more detailed convergence and straighten out the lines.
I know it is tedious but if the manual is not giving you much in the way of description, make a list and give it to me and I can probably tell you what they are and what their function is, otherwise, like myself you would have to go through each item in the service menu via the CH+ button then then hit the volume button in each case, to see what happens on the screen. You would also need to make a record of the present setting so you remember where to come back to in the adjustments, just in case something weird happens.
Here again, I am not sure what the "designer" mode relates to other than referring to maybe certain default settings in the set, but once you start tinkering with the items to bring the set to a "reference" standard in colour and gamma that you are attempting to do, these other settings are irrelevant anyway since they are the ones that came out of the factory. Since the set is still in good working order and if you wish to spend the time, one good thing that can come out of all this is once you become familiar with the settings you can fine tine the picture and potentially get it to be substantially better and more accurate than what it was new right out of the factory. |
OK, the service mode you and I are familiar with has descriptive names of the items listed, such as RCUT, BCUT, GGUT, RDRV, BDRV, HIT, WID, etc., but there is a small number of items to adjust or tweak. The older sets (model year prior to mine) had a Designer mode where again they used these descriptive names for the values, but there were far more items to adjust/tweak. Service mode is/was a subset of the Designer mode.
Designer mode offered the cryptic (but descriptive) english name to other values which could be tweaked, beyond those in the service menu such as: color phase, color temperature, color offsets for all 3 modes (cool, normal, warm), luminance, etc...
The ADDR mode is direct access to the memory locations which the descriptive entries point to, however it is strictly based off of the memory location for that particular setting. For example RCUT mentioned above is listed in ADDR mode as simply 301. 302 is GCUT, 303 is BCUT (yes, a FEW of the addresses are known).
Yes, my set has different settings for the inputs and also for the different signal type input (1080i, 480P, 480i) into that physical input (Component1 or component2 for example).
The list of items in my service menu are:
RCUT
GCUT
BCUT
RDRV
BDRV
BRTC
TNTC
SCOL
SCNT
HPOS
VPOS
HIT
LIN
VSC
VPS
VCP
WID
PARA
CNR
HCP
VFC
HPHA
BLKS
BLKE
PHUE
PCNT
PCOL
PYOF
PIOF
PQOF
EYOF
EIOF
EQOF
ECNT
VCEN
OPT1
OPT2
TVOP
You mentioned previously that you are using a VideoEQ on your set, but doesn't that only have HDMI in/out? How are you feeding your TV as I believe you, like me, are limited to component inputs as the highest quality input on the set?
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Ron W
Joined: 07 Aug 2009
Posts: 807
Location: Mississauga
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| Link Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 1:39 am Post subject: |
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Once again, hello Bob. First of all, when you asked the question how do I deal with HDMI connections with only component inputs, you must know that much of the CurtPalme website's very existence is to solve this HDMI to component and/or RGB input issue for legacy equipment such as ours. When I found this website and its products, it no longer made my RPCRT a "relic". Refer to the "Products for Sale" menu and you will see the HDMI>component/RGB converters i.e. HDFury2 and HDFury3(the latest and most feature-laden model) and Moome EXTV2 HD which will answer your question as to how the HDMI>component issue is solved. These products enable you to get the FULL capabilities of your DVD and Blu-Ray player since upscaling and getting the full video processing power out of these players is only available with an HDMI digital connection. The above equipment does the conversion. This is how I and others on this site are able to use a VideoEQ or any other peripheral equipment that only has HDMI connections. I, myself, have the Moome converter because in my particular situation with all the equipment I have hooked up from source>AVR>Moome>monitor, it seems to handle the finnicky nature of HDMI connections and the video signal lock-on a little better than the Fury product. Depending on equipment and type others may have a slightly different result. It is all because of the nature of HDMI connections.
The list of service menu items you provided is pretty standard with few exceptions. You still did not indicate how you adjust your convergence(lining up all the colours). Is it a single point conversion or multi-point and if it is a multi-point, did you try to press the number 7 on your remote in the service mode? It is important to note that regardless of the items listed, in order to see what is happening on the screen you should have something with a grid pattern showing. If the monitor doesn't allow you to access any convergence pattern, it would be a good idea to purchase a test disc such as DVE or others. You are already familiar with some of the items so perhaps I can clarify some others. BRTC is a master brightness control for the set. TNTC,SCOL and SCNT are settings that I have never used nor do they seem to have any effect when adjusted so I would ignore them. The HPOS and VPOS inputs enable a horizontal or vertical shift of the entire picture to center it precisely in the middle of the screen. HIT adjusts the top of the picture up and down(do all these changes one point at a time on your remote to see what is happening)Items starting with a V usually refer to any setting which effects vertical adjustments. H, of course, is horizontal. P refers to the "Picture in Picture" mode. There are others in this list that actually do "fine tuning" of the vertical and horizontal adjustments. There are others such as "Parabaloa" and others to deal with straightening out the picture in the corners related to the center. Not to be redundant, but I must be, in order to see what the effect is of each control and what the adjustment does you must have some sort of pattern available to you showing on the screen.
You are already familiar with the colour controls and their capabilities(and limitations) so basically most of the other settings refer to horizontal and vertical adjustments to enable the user to get a picture on the screen that is geometrically and positionally accurate as possible. You want horizontal and vertical lines that are straight and equally spaced apart and the picture dead center in the middle of the screen with as little overscan as possible.
Any other help needed, just let us know.
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