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Fixing missing pixel with lumagen
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SPL800




Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 163
Location: Israel


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:52 am    Post subject: Fixing missing pixel with lumagen Reply with quote


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I have missing pixels on the left side of the screen.
I know that with exact timing porches we can fix the missing pixels. So that I will show complete picture.
I have tried a different way with the shrink function. And it works!
What is preferred?
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 16965
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, what do you mean exactly by "missing pixels"?

What display or projector are you using?

What source are you using?

What Lumagen video processor are you using?

Kal

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SPL800




Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 163
Location: Israel


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:09 pm    Post subject: . Reply with quote

When I mean missing pixels. is on the left side there missing info.
I’m using Barco 1209s. Lumagen XE. Source is dune/Apple TV 4k/HTPC.
Feeding the lumagen 1080p@60 Hz. Outputting the same Rez.
I fix that with shrink function. But be happy to know if there’s a better way.
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still don't understand exactly what you mean. There can't be anything missing from the signal. Do you mean that you've got blanking set on the projector somehow to mask part of the left side of the image maybe?

Can you post a before and after picture of what you mean?

Kal

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SPL800




Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 163
Location: Israel


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:53 pm    Post subject: . Reply with quote

before setting shrink function in the lumagen the circle isn't complete.
also masking is set to 0.
sorry about convergence didn't set yet....
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kal
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the projected image is off the screen. You can adjust raster size on the projector, the image size within the raster on the projector, or do this within the lumagen. Normally you'll want to maximize phosphor usage on the projector. This comes down to proper CRT projector setup for maximum tube life. See: http://www.curtpalme.com/TubeRasterSetup.shtm

If you need to change porch settings that can done in the Lumagen.

Kal

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jaredjaric




Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 218
Location: Philippines


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got your PM,

I agree with Kal,

go back to your basic projector set up first.
Also, make sure the H amplitude on the SMPS P700 trimpot is not set too wide.

In the installation mode menu.
adjust the raster centering of each tube, you can see the raster when you maxed out the brightness.

Then go to random mode and check h Phase adjustment again.
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SPL800




Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 163
Location: Israel


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaredjaric wrote:
I got your PM,

I agree with Kal,

go back to your basic projector set up first.
Also, make sure the H amplitude on the SMPS P700 trimpot is not set too wide.

In the installation mode menu.
adjust the raster centering of each tube, you can see the raster when you maxed out the brightness.

Then go to random mode and check h Phase adjustment again.


All this where already done. “By the book”
My question is not on the projector setups. But on the lumagen.
which one is preferred to fix the missing info on screen
1. Shrink function
2. Timing porch setting
Thanks
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jaredjaric




Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 218
Location: Philippines


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if that is the case,

It is the porch timing, to make use of the whole video raster,

but still,

check the Raster again ,

also the smps p700 trimpot for H amplitude .


Adjust potentiometer P700 for +69V for HTHD (for example pin 1 of J200), this
voltage corresponds normaly to a "full raster" image.
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kal
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TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More tips too in my Barco "quick reference guide" here for the order to do things in: http://www.curtpalme.com/Barco_Setup_Quick_Reference_Guide.shtm

Kal

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SPL800




Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 163
Location: Israel


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:35 am    Post subject: . Reply with quote

I think the missing info is due to source resolution.
If I set source to 720p@60Hz I can get all the info on screen.
My projector is Barco 1209s. He can take 1080p@60hz
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26135
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most likely porch timings. Many newer devices put out narrow porch timings as flat tv's don't need the time for beam return and settle.
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SPL800




Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 163
Location: Israel


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:
Most likely porch timings. Many newer devices put out narrow porch timings as flat tv's don't need the time for beam return and settle.


Hi AnalogRocks. Thats exactly what I mean.
Now I can fix with the shrink function in the Lumagen.
But maybe with correct porch timing I can get better results?
If so. Can you please help and send me value to put in the Lumagen 🙏
Thanks
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Hulio




Joined: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 363
Location: Belgium


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Setting the voltage for max. H amplitude on the SMPS on a 1209 is different than on a Cine 9. P2 pot should be adjusted for a voltage of 48VDC measured on the transistor's Q3 base on the H deflection board. But the issue here is indeed, like others already mentioned, the timings.
Here some well known working timings for Barco's should be tried. Also, Barco's have trouble with positive sync polarities. They all should be set to negative.
1920x1080@60Hz
H scan rate = 66.893
H total pixels = 2224
H active pixels = 1920
H front porch = 44
H sync width = 68
H back porch = 192
V refresh rate = 59.94
V total lines = 1116
V total active lines = 1080
V front porch = 4
V sync width = 7
V back porch = 25

Playing (reducing) with H front porch, sync width and back porch settings may be required in order to get enough active image width.
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kal
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Posts: 16965
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For porches, if you need more room on the left side, that's the HORIZONTAL BACK PORCH setting in the source device, which can also be altered in the Radiance.

Here's what they are:



There are lots of settings that will "work". It's a combination of the source signal porch settings, your raster size, and your image size within the raster. As AnalogRocks mentions, porch settings are a throwback to when CRT based displays were used. The electron beam needs time to "settle" before and after painting the image within the active image area (the middle square) for a stable image. This concept doesn't exist in fixed panel digital displays as there's no beam that goes back and forth painting the image.

For the best CRT projector setup it's important that the concept between the 3 are understood. The concept of image within the raster is explained the link I posted earlier: http://www.curtpalme.com/TubeRasterSetup.shtm

Good luck!

Kal

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SPL800




Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 163
Location: Israel


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:50 pm    Post subject: . Reply with quote

I succeed to get all picture on the screen.
I did that be increasing the Htotal and together with Hfront.
but now i have Vrate at 58.18. trying to fix it with clock and doesn't work.
is it ok to be at 58.18 or needs more tweaking?
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Hulio




Joined: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 363
Location: Belgium


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright, it's looking beter. The V rate automatically changed to accommodate the altered porch timings you just did. Don't worry too much about that.
However, you should touch the horizontal linearity on your Barco. The pattern squares must have the same width all over the screen, and the circles on the right-side should be round too.
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SPL800




Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 163
Location: Israel


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:55 pm    Post subject: . Reply with quote

Thanks hulio
Didnt finish geometry yet.
I just wanted to achieve full screen.
So if I succeed with time porch then no need to check the 48v?
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Hulio




Joined: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 363
Location: Belgium


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may check the 48V if you wish, but that voltage is resolution dependable. So the chances are big that you run out of H width adjustments for some resolutions. The usual way to do that is to put H width at around 90 with the RCU while watching the desired resolution,and adjust P2 on the SMPS till you get the right width on the screen.
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AnalogRocks
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once you get the voltages and porches dialed in you may want to consider a complete re-setup of the memory location. Start from scratch.

Then you can really nail the setup.

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