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Save up for a ColorMunki?
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Brian Hampton



Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 1174



PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:02 pm    Post subject: Save up for a ColorMunki? Reply with quote


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Hi,

Long ago I bought a Spyder II colormeter before everyone figured out they can be unreliable and stuff.

I once got togeather with a couple of AVS-ers and my Spyder II read identical for the most part to a higher end probe that was shipping with colorfacts at the time.

Anyways... I don't believe in my Spyder II anymore. Yesterday I played with it some and it makes my low end stuff very yellow like it doesn't see enough of the Blue on the low end anymore.

So... I'm saving up (trying not to buy a few blu's) for a better solution and I've been interested in the ColorMunki and I went to read up on it and saw this...


Projector Profiling
Using Video projectors to display images has always been a hit-or-miss proposition in regards to color accuracy. Utilizing the same profiling technology for your computer display, and with just a flip of the devices selector wheel, ColorMunki will give you fast and accurate projector profiles so you can project your images to your client, family or friends with confidence.


Very interesting. This suggests that it's designed to actually read projectors and not just another probe that is being Jimi-ed because it sort of works to read from projectors.

I use and love HFCR but maybe this probe would work directly with it's own software the way it was "designed" ??

Seems great... Am I missing something? I know it's pricey and I will go back and read through the pros and cons of the different meters. (I'll have plenty of time If I'm trying to scrimp up $500!)

--Brian
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Brian, not sure if the colorminki is HCFR compatible. But if it is you would still keep the Spyder and profile it to the Colormonki . The reason is that a tri stimulus probe like the spyder is much faster at reading. Profiling it to the colormonki would give you the accuracy of the monki and speed of the spyder(sounds like a animal planet show;) ). Or if you want to go the cheaper route I still have 3 blank HCFR probe boards. I can make you one up , i still need to figure out my cost but it be close to that, rough guess no more than 125 bucks. I would build a profile for it against my i1 Pro and send the calibration file to you.

Hopefully though HCFR will add the Colormonki to its list of probes.

you could also see what the package deal for ChromaPure and the Monki is, might be a better idea and you could then profile your spyder with it as well.

Athanasios

Athanasios

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Brian Hampton



Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 1174



PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I read about you making a HFCR proble and it's VERY kind of you to offer me a chance to get one. That does sound great. I haven't looked at stuff like this for a while so I'm a little "out of it."

The slow-ness of the munki seems like it wouldn't be much of an issue for me. I read the HDCR team is testing a new release with support for the Munki... (Hasn't happend yet but I don't have the Munki yet either and it will be a while before I think I can buy one.)

-Brian
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian Hampton wrote:
Hi,

I read about you making a HFCR proble and it's VERY kind of you to offer me a chance to get one. That does sound great. I haven't looked at stuff like this for a while so I'm a little "out of it."

The slow-ness of the munki seems like it wouldn't be much of an issue for me. I read the HDCR team is testing a new release with support for the Munki... (Hasn't happend yet but I don't have the Munki yet either and it will be a while before I think I can buy one.)

-Brian


yeah id wait for the monki support in HCFR for now. You might the cash saved up at exactly the same time they have the support for the monki. I could still build a probe for you and let you borrow it if you really need to get your displays calibrated.

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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Brian Hampton



Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 1174



PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's sweet! I would love that. My Spyder II seems worthless to me now since I can get good data and still have a bad picture.

I can give it to you, if you're interested in it.

I just saw the Munki for $330 which is cheaper than I've seen it so far.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/555132-REG/Pantone_MEU115_ColorMunki_Design_Color_Management.html

Edit #2- Would this be the cheapest path to an eye one???

http://www.amazon.com/Pantone-MEU116-ColorMunki-Calibration-Software/dp/B001E2J464

?? I'll have to look more into that... Seems do-able.
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Brian Hampton



Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 1174



PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey,

I went ahead and ordered the colormunki create thingie. It should be the same sensor as the Eye1 lite or whatever. I know those don't last "forever" but I plan to keep mine in a box of rice or something. Smile

Hopefully it will work with HFCR.

-Brian
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian Hampton wrote:
Hey,

I went ahead and ordered the colormunki create thingie. It should be the same sensor as the Eye1 lite or whatever. I know those don't last "forever" but I plan to keep mine in a box of rice or something. Smile

Hopefully it will work with HFCR.

-Brian


I dont think it will work. I heard that its locked to only work with X-Rite software and I think Calman got the rights to use it as well. it was awhile ago when i saw a post on it.

Hope you can return it if it does not work with HCFR.

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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Brian Hampton



Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 1174



PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah but that info comes from a person who's involved with CalMan.

At any rate there is another freeware software like HCFR that does see the ColorMunki Create as an Eye1, so I can use that if needed.

HCFR says they have been testing a new version that supports ColorMunki so maybe that version will support the Create probe as well.

-Brian
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian Hampton wrote:
Yeah but that info comes from a person who's involved with CalMan.

At any rate there is another freeware software like HCFR that does see the ColorMunki Create as an Eye1, so I can use that if needed.

HCFR says they have been testing a new version that supports ColorMunki so maybe that version will support the Create probe as well.

-Brian


I guess we'll find out soon enough Wink

Good Luck!

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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Brian Hampton



Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 1174



PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I'm still deciding weather to keep it or not or try it or not. I'm thinking I'll keep it and try it and if it doesn't work with HCFR then it may get supported in the next release. They claim to be testing a new release but it won't happen unless it does. There is a software that can use this probe as an Eye1 so I've started reading up on that.

I don't think I need a $1000 meter but I do need something and my reasons are not the usual.

I use a digital projector these days and the grey scale actually looks fine with "default" settings. The PQ is actually very good. Black level is inflated though naturally. I can enhance black level significantly but I get very far from defaults and then I need some type of meter to guide me for setup.

Anyways,... I don't think anyone with a projector should be without a color meter.

-Brian
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Brian Hampton



Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 1174



PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tried some other software that supports the colormunki create directly. There's one called Babelcolor which is a paid program but the trial version does everything that you need for calibration.
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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't be to confident in the cheap Colormunki working that well. I would be curious what the Delta E is as compared to a reference instrument.

You never mentioned what your budget was, but I think the best option would have been going with Nash's DIY probe measured against his i1 Pro.
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Brian Hampton



Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 1174



PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure,

Sounds good.

I did find a write up of at least one person who owned both the eye one pro and the eye one D2 (which is the same as the ColorMunki Create) and that user determined the cheaper meter was better for the task of calibrating his projector.

I would rather have something nicer... But for $75, I'll play with this one at least for a while.

-Brian
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian Hampton wrote:
Sure,

Sounds good.

I did find a write up of at least one person who owned both the eye one pro and the eye one D2 (which is the same as the ColorMunki Create) and that user determined the cheaper meter was better for the task of calibrating his projector.

I would rather have something nicer... But for $75, I'll play with this one at least for a while.

-Brian


This is the deal with the D2 and i1 Pro. the d2 is fine for fast reading when it is reading accurately. And even out of the box it is not guaranteed to be accurate. Just sitting on the shelf it can drift. Some don't drift much at all. Enviroment its been kept in has a lot to do with it.

Now the i1 Pro is different. It uses no Filters like the Tri Stimulus probes. It has over 100 diodes that read the light.
Derek and L.A Habelien of Spectracal said they have never seen an i1 Pro be terribly off like a D2 or Spyder can be.
they Get 5 year old i1 Pro's sent in for re-certification that are still dead on or drifted hardly anything and still make certification with having to be re calibrated.

This is why if your serious about calibrating your displays or friends you should always have a two meter set up.
A spectro and Tri Stimulus. The spectro as the reference probe and the tri for the calibration as its faster and you would profile it to the i1 pro or Color Munki Spectro. The nice thing about the HCFR probe is it has a lot of calibration files in the HCFR software and you can calibrate it against any known good probe yourself and on the display you want to calibrate.

I made a probe for Bob Stephan with the NEC blend. A few months ago he had it calibrated with a HCFR probe that was used by someone who has experience calibrating CRT's. It did a great job . Well Bob messed up the settings in his VideoEQ's and needed to get that probe again as he really lieked how it did the job. Well he could not wait for him to return so I made him one and he said the probe I sent with my i1 pro calibration file read almost exactly the same as the first HCFR pobe he used by looking at the printed out calibration reports of the first session. It made me glad to know from some one else that the probe does in fact work and is fairly accurate, even over time. The First probe of the calibrators is a few years old. Also they used the NEG 6pg profile already in the HCFR profile list.

So what you can do for now is still save up for the Spectrometer colormunki and use it to profile the faster reading D2 you just got.

one more thing, tri stimulus probes do read better at very low IRE's than spectros, its more consistent.



Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

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Brian Hampton



Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 1174



PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Athanasios,

I understand. I've been reading quite a lot about all the meters and how to use them. I know the cheap meters may be off from the start and go "off'-er (ha!) over time. I also understand using a better meter to determine this offset and then using the cheaper meter for it's speed.

It's been interesting learning this stuff. I actually got my own Spyder II to read a little better with some experimentation but I only bought that one to begin with because it was the first color meter to dip under $100. (The term is false economy I guess.) I will keep it just to compare it to the new one when it arrives and then I'll throw it out.

From what I've read the Eye-one (not the pro) is more of what the Spyder II should have been. Confidence in them seems better and lower IRE readings are better and it's faster.

So,... how serious am I about calibrating my displays? ... Well,... I will likely only be interested in calibrating my projector and I don't have a TV. The default settings for my pj actually make an enjoy-able picture with a "believe"-able grey scale. With some tuning I can enhance the black level quite a lot but at that point I'm far out of the original ball park. I likely reduce overall light output a little... but not much and the PJ can scorch ya depending on how you tune it because I use a very small screen in a pitch black room.

So,.. I need something to get my settings "reasonable". I'm not currently planning on doing anyone else's setups or anything like that. I still may save up for the other Munki. It's just neat and again fairly cheap (ha ha.) And the 2 would likely be happy together. Smile






=Brian[/img]
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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian,
I understand what you are saying and I agree. I know where Nash is going, but I think two meters is overkill. My reason for saying you should go with Nash's DIY meter is consistency and accuracy based on being speced to i1 pro. Hopefully the Munki will work out for you.

Another alternative that I floated to the South Fl HT guys at one time was to go in on equipment. If you have some enthusiasts in your area, then you amortize the cost between all of you. With six or seven people, a C5 pro from Chromapure would be around $100 a pop.
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Brian Hampton



Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 1174



PostLink    Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My munki should be here tomorrow,... I'm actually excited about it.

Can't wait to check it out.
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Brian Hampton



Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 1174



PostLink    Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well,... It's a bust.

It is recognized by Windows as Eye1 but doesn't read with HCFR or BabelColor.

It works with it's own software (of course) and it works with ArgyllCMS. So... I'm learning how to use ArgyllCMS and it's kind of neat but a pain too.

-Brian
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Brian Hampton



Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 1174



PostLink    Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only got argyllcms to work once and I guess maybe it stopped working because I updated the colormunki software.

Buy dot com says I can return it (they have it classified as an accessory not software thankfully) so I have it ready to ship back. Hopefully they won't change their mind.

Athanasios,

Let me know what it would cost to get one of your HCFR meters if possible.

I'm going to go read up on those.

-Brian
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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For some reason Episode 3 comes to mind. I see Brian kneeling before Emperor Nash saying "I will do whatever you say." Mr. Green
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