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Just borrowed a Spyder 3 pro
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CZ Eddie



Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 1599
Location: Austin, TX


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 9:11 pm    Post subject: Just borrowed a Spyder 3 pro Reply with quote


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I just borrowed a new Spyder 3 Pro. I'm gonna download ColorHCFR and follow Kal's guide to attempt my first ever calibration. Any tips for the newbie? Very Happy
If I can figure it all out, then I'll probably pick up an Eye One in the future.


Here's what I've got:

Display Devices: Marantz VP4001 digital projector & Marquee 8500 CRT projector & Sony FW900 widescreen CRT monitor.

Sources: HTPC, Dish Network 722 HD-DVR & an HD-DVD player.


And I have this HD-DVD version of DVE and a standard def Avia.

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Sparky015



Joined: 12 May 2009
Posts: 1185
Location: Cleveland / Akron, OH


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eddie, you've summed it up. Kal's guide is great. If you want to step up from there, give Calman a try.
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16166
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im playing around right now with a HCFR Sensor i made . I calibrated it to my i1 Pro and it seems to be working pretty good. its cool cause it has two sensors that you can turn either one on individually or turn them both on together, Also i can tell now if they match, which they do not so i can take one out and replace it with another(i bought 24 from TAOS) . This way i can have a nice matched Sensor.

Still have more testing , I just thought it be cool to use a probe I made myself and see how it hold up with the i1 pro. The good thing is now i do not have to calibrate the probe every 20 minutes. the i1 Pro needs it and if you do not in HCFR you can tell over time. So this probe so far has read pretty consistant for over an hour. Off for a star bucks and then a little work on the other PJ to match it with this new probe.

CZ if you have alap top and a usb to RS 232 adapter I suggest you use the marquee controller Program.

it has much more precise control of the drive and G2's. also it does not put any menu up on the screen to contaminate the readings. So this means you do not have to mute the menu off the screen. The one thing i do not like is you have to leave the Drive( 6500k Adjustment name in the Program) and then switch to G2 adjustment for the low end. Use 30 and 80 or 70 ire and do it first with blue hsarp and then if you need to get rid of the blue hump defocus it a bit in the service menu.

Also you can save the settings and then try a different calibration approach like using 20 and 80 IRE or 30 and 70 IRE etc.

I uploaded the program to my iDisc . i was on the VDC site but its gone now and the one curt has is older. maybe curt can upload this one to his site here is my link;

http://files.me.com/nashou.66/sjl1c9

If you need any help your way around the Controller Program let me know.


Athanasios

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CZ Eddie



Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 1599
Location: Austin, TX


PostLink    Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm calibrating my digital projector first. I must be doing something wrong though, because I can only get ~6.5 ft. lamberts max. And that is using the wide IRIS and with contrast setting all the way to max, even brightness at max.

If I aim the spyder3 at the projector, then it jumps up to like 20 something ft. lamberts. But I realize this needs to be aimed at the screen. Which the meter is about 4-6" away from, on a tripod at just below the center of the screen. Just like in Kal's guide.

But it's 3AM and I'm calling it a night.

Maybe I should have left the Dalite High-Power screen downstairs.
Or it just could be time for a new bulb. Very Happy

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Sparky015



Joined: 12 May 2009
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PostLink    Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nash, thanks for posting that program. Is it sad that i have a laptop old enough to still have an RS-232 port? Laughing
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16166
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sparky015 wrote:
Nash, thanks for posting that program. Is it sad that i have a laptop old enough to still have an RS-232 port? Laughing


your welcome paul. there is a small glitch you might find.

when going to do the Color calibration of the Drive or G2's after you select it it might change your previous
6500k to one of the other set ups. just close the Drive and reopen it to the 6500k and it will come back to normal.
If it happens when you select to adjust G2's close that and open the ^500 k Drive adjustments and it will come back.

Thats one small issue i found so far.

Also i am not sure what Software version the marquee needs to control a Sub Brightness control.
My v4.2 does not allow it. I think we need version 6 and higher to assess that. I need to get that version.

Athanasios

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CZ Eddie



Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 1599
Location: Austin, TX


PostLink    Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm working on my 8500 mechanical & optical setup today and hope to start the greyscale/color calibration in a couple days.
I can't seem to find the driver for my USB to Serial adapter. If I can locate one, I may look into your app. Smile
I do have the Marquee librarian and controller software. Are one of those what you posted above or is this something different?

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CZ Eddie wrote:
I'm working on my 8500 mechanical & optical setup today and hope to start the greyscale/color calibration in a couple days.
I can't seem to find the driver for my USB to Serial adapter. If I can locate one, I may look into your app. Smile
I do have the Marquee librarian and controller software. Are one of those what you posted above or is this something different?


What is the USB to Serial adaptor? keyspan and belkin have them online. I use both and they both work well.


If you downloaded them from here the Controller is the older version, it should work. mine is 2.3 the folder will be Marquee23 after you unzip it.

I love using it for the blend set up. I have them daisy chained together . I can turn them both on from the laptop
and then put one in stand by as i make adjustments, turn the one back on to see how close it came to it(the reference PJ)
Mute it again while the HCFR probe or my i1 pro makes its readings.
its a slick way to calibrate. messing around with remotes is a pain, just the BD player and thats it. But both Calman and HCFR have IR control for that too. I need to make a cable from my probe to my player. the one in the HCFR probe might reach but not sure. So far that probe seems to have been profiled to my i1 pro pretty close. it is definitely a faster probe especially down in the low end.

Now if i can get the HCFR probe to work in calman Wink

Athanasios

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CZ Eddie



Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 1599
Location: Austin, TX


PostLink    Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like a slick setup. Wink

I'm not sure of the mfg of my usb adapter.

Dangit, I must be doing something WRONG. I can't get over ~3 ft. lamberts on my Marquee either?!?!

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which Program are you using? I cant get much higher than 6 either . Some probes i dont think show the actual right amount because i think its plenty bright.

Athanasios

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CZ Eddie



Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 1599
Location: Austin, TX


PostLink    Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm using ColorHCFR 2.1.0 with a brand new Spyder3 and this is where I'm seeing ~3 ft. lamberts for both of my displays. Even turning contrast/brightness all the way up doesn't go much higher than ~3.5?


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gerryyf



Joined: 14 Jun 2010
Posts: 8
Location: Calgary, AB


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CZEddie said -- I just borrowed a new Spyder 3 Pro. I'm gonna download ColorHCFR and follow Kal's guide to attempt my first ever calibration. Any tips for the newbie? Very Happy

I just borrowed a Spyder3 Pro as well and cannot get it to work. I followed the directions in Kal's guide by downloading the newest HCFR software and then downloaded the Spyder Pro software from the website. I installed the software to my laptop running Windows XP just as the guide says. I also copied the only .dll file I could find (not the same as in the guide) Spyder3.dll into the same location as the ColorHCFR.exe file. I set everything else up exactly as the guide says, however, when I go to step 1.13 and press the green arrow I get the error message "Spyder3.dll returned an error during initialization". Do you have any idea what the problem is? Thanks in advance.
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16166
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did the hardware wizard installer pop up when you connected the Spyder3?

you need to make sure its installed in windows.

Athanasios

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gerryyf



Joined: 14 Jun 2010
Posts: 8
Location: Calgary, AB


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
Did the hardware wizard installer pop up when you connected the Spyder3?

you need to make sure its installed in windows.

Athanasios


Yes, it said "found new hardware". What do you mean that it has to be installed in Windows? Do you mean the Windows directory?
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gerryyf



Joined: 14 Jun 2010
Posts: 8
Location: Calgary, AB


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:25 pm    Post subject: My Calibration Experience on a Sony KDL 60EX700 Reply with quote

Well, I finally got the Sypder3 device to work with the help of an older .dll and other files taken from another site. If anyone needs the files and an explanation of where to install them, send me a PM.

My most significant beef with this television has been my inability to tweak the hue and white balance settings to get natural colors, especially the reds. Being a Canadian, I know what color the Canadian flag should be as well some other iconic reds like the Mountie uniform---couldn't seem to get there without some more elaborate calibration help. When I started the calibration process I had to use the Warm2 to setting as a basis in order to try and balance the RGB levels as the other settings were too far out of whack. At Neutral (100% white), the starting values were R-82%, G-100%, B-141%; at Warm1 the values were R-92%, G-100%, B-116%. At Warm2 I had my best readings starting at R-97%, G-100%, B-105%. These R values however got worse as you lowered your IRE values (at 30%IRE the R is 90%). I was encouraged that i could fix it however so I went through the various steps in Kal's guide in an effort to bring all the colors into the 6500K area with a reasonable DeltaE value. What I found was that I could not increase the Red at all in the Gain setting (only go back into the negative which decreased the values). On the Bias settings however, I could increase the Red setting but any change above +5 gave the screen a noticeable red tinge and cranking it all the way up to +20 gave it a ridiculous red overtone. Even with the color over saturated with Red, the Red value only increased to 95%. The darker color is actually where i needed the most increase in Red value, however, it doesn't seem possible with these settings. Also, this TV has a gamma adjustment of 3 clicks either side of zero. My gamma readings were consistently below the 2.2 value recommended in the guide. The closest I could get was about 2.0--strangely enough, as i moved the gamma up from zero to +3, the gamma values stayed the same or even went down (another head scratcher).

I am not very impressed with this set thus far. Why would it come from the factory so far out of whack and then not give me the ability to adjust it to equalize the RGB values. Therefore, I am wondering if there is a setting in the service menu where one can increase the Red output? What about a firmware upgrade? I realize these sets don't have "color guns" anymore like the old rear projections sets, but perhaps there is something that can be tweaked. I would even consider hiring a professional calibrator, but if he can't balance the levels due to a flaw in the electronics, I am not going to waste my money. Maybe it is only my set that has something wrong with it as I haven't seen anyone else complain about a lack of flexibility in calibrating the RGB values of the 60EX700.

I would appreciate any advice as to what can be done to fix this problem. Thanks.
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Rolls-Royce



Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 288
Location: Victorville, CA


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sounds like your set is running out of Red at the higher light levels. This is quite common, and about the only thing you can really do is to lower Blue and Green gain to bring all three into balance. No service menu control will really correct it, as it's caused by physical limitations in the display (that particular primary color can't produce the same maximum amount of light as the other two). Our Sony LCD was exactly the same way out of the box.

Personally, I'm not crazy about the Spyder meters. I've had two original Spyders, both purchased brand new, and both resulted in a noticeable red tint on grayscale ramp patterns.

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gerryyf



Joined: 14 Jun 2010
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Location: Calgary, AB


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolls-Royce wrote:
It sounds like your set is running out of Red at the higher light levels. This is quite common, and about the only thing you can really do is to lower Blue and Green gain to bring all three into balance. No service menu control will really correct it, as it's caused by physical limitations in the display (that particular primary color can't produce the same maximum amount of light as the other two). Our Sony LCD was exactly the same way out of the box.

Personally, I'm not crazy about the Spyder meters. I've had two original Spyders, both purchased brand new, and both resulted in a noticeable red tint on grayscale ramp patterns.


Thanks Royce, I believe what you are saying is that it is possible to lower the green and blue values below 100% to match the red (let's say lower all to 95%)--I didn't try this at all when I was calibrating? I will definitely try this and hope that there is sufficient in both the Green and Blue to accomplish this. Will I have to adjust anything else to compensate for sub 100% values?

I have read that the Spyder meters don't measure the darker greys very accurately and that's where I found I had trouble getting the RGB levels to equalize--maybe it was the meter giving inaccurate readings. Since it didn't cost me anything to borrow, I thought I'd give it a try.
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolls-Royce wrote:
Personally, I'm not crazy about the Spyder meters. I've had two original Spyders, both purchased brand new, and both resulted in a noticeable red tint on grayscale ramp patterns.

You guys need to read my FAQ: Which meter is right for me? about Spyder meters in general. They're not at all calibrated at the factory. I wouldn't waste my time on them.

Kal

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Rolls-Royce



Joined: 30 Sep 2007
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PostLink    Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gerryyf wrote:
Rolls-Royce wrote:
It sounds like your set is running out of Red at the higher light levels. This is quite common, and about the only thing you can really do is to lower Blue and Green gain to bring all three into balance. No service menu control will really correct it, as it's caused by physical limitations in the display (that particular primary color can't produce the same maximum amount of light as the other two). Our Sony LCD was exactly the same way out of the box.

Personally, I'm not crazy about the Spyder meters. I've had two original Spyders, both purchased brand new, and both resulted in a noticeable red tint on grayscale ramp patterns.


Thanks Royce, I believe what you are saying is that it is possible to lower the green and blue values below 100% to match the red (let's say lower all to 95%)--I didn't try this at all when I was calibrating? I will definitely try this and hope that there is sufficient in both the Green and Blue to accomplish this. Will I have to adjust anything else to compensate for sub 100% values?

I have read that the Spyder meters don't measure the darker greys very accurately and that's where I found I had trouble getting the RGB levels to equalize--maybe it was the meter giving inaccurate readings. Since it didn't cost me anything to borrow, I thought I'd give it a try.


Since the RGB levels are relative to each other, reducing Green and Blue to the correct balance with Red will result in all three being at 100%. Very Happy Leave the Red where it is and bring down the other two.

You can also try lowering contrast to get 100% white at a point where red isn't running out. I tried that with my Sony LCD before reducing B and G, but I ended up with a very dark picture. I felt that lowering B and G was the best compromise to get good contrast and a good grayscale.

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Last edited by Rolls-Royce on Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rolls-Royce



Joined: 30 Sep 2007
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Location: Victorville, CA


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Rolls-Royce wrote:
Personally, I'm not crazy about the Spyder meters. I've had two original Spyders, both purchased brand new, and both resulted in a noticeable red tint on grayscale ramp patterns.

You guys need to read my FAQ: Which meter is right for me? about Spyder meters in general. They're not at all calibrated at the factory. I wouldn't waste my time on them.

Kal


Hi, Kal. My ownership/use and resulting mistrust of the Spyders was years ago, long before your FAQ was published. I was just letting gerryyf know what I think from my experience with them. Smile

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