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Moome has a new firmware for color space
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:57 am    Post subject: Moome has a new firmware for color space Reply with quote


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Several months back I asked Moome if he could make me a special firmware for his latest generation of Sony and Marquee HDMI input boards. Specifically, I wanted to be able to manually select the color space to use rather than relying on the info frame in the HDMI signal to tell the IFB what color space to use.

So last week Moome sent me the new chip along with operating instructions. I removed the old FW IC and soldered on the new one. Much to my satisfaction, the new FW worked perfectly on the first go (great job Moome Smile).

So with this firmware, one can use the IFB remote control to select color space manually. All you need know is the following.

Button--> Color Space
    4--> Auto
    5--> YCbCr444
    6--> YCbCr422
    7--> RGB444

This firmware is very useful in some specific situations, but will not provide any benefit in most installations. Because of this, I would suggest NOT updating to this FW unless you actually need it for a specific reason. I have however asked Moome to include this feature on the next build of boards.

One example of a use for this feature is when the source and input board do not communicate properly. This is most common on long HDMI cable runs, or when using HDMI to CAT/Fiber extenders. When proper communication is not possible and YCbCr is selected at the source, the input card will remain on RGB. The result is an unwatchable image because it will either be entirely pink or entirely green. With the new FW feature, you can just select the desired color space on the Moome remote such that you match the color space on the output of your source. Problem solved.

Another example for application is with DVI sources that support YCbCr. DVI does not send any info frame for color space so it can not tell the input card what color space to use. In this case, you MUST manually select the correct color space on the input card or you can not even use YCbCr. There are some HTPC's that are like this as well as the Accupel HDG-4000 pattern generator.

This is a cool feature that is found on most of the high end digital projectors now along with many high end flat panel displays. I am very pleased that Moome was able to implement it on this IFB.

If anyone needs this feature in the USA they can mail me their board and I will update the IC. If you are in another part of the world you should probably just send the board back to Moome. This is an upgrade so I suspect that Moome will charge something for the new firmware installation and it will probably not be free.

craigr

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Nashou66




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PostLink    Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig, i think I have this issue in my blend set up. for the life of me I cannot get it to show the proper color space on the Vim HD card. I'll set all to YUV(YCbCr) and the moome only shows RGB. I think this is something I might need. I'll send Moome an E-mail. thanks for getting this done as well.

Athanasios

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CIR Engineering




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PostLink    Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
Craig, i think I have this issue in my blend set up. for the life of me I cannot get it to show the proper color space on the Vim HD card. I'll set all to YUV(YCbCr) and the moome only shows RGB. I think this is something I might need. I'll send Moome an E-mail. thanks for getting this done as well.

Athanasios

I don't think this will help you Tom. If you have the correct colors on the screen, not all pink or all green, then the Moome card is doing it right. The problem would be the source device not putting out component.

Changing the color space at the IFB will not fix the problem if the colors are not being output from the source in the desired color space. What VP are you using now? Can you manually select the color space at the VP, or does it rely on EDID only?

If you have manually selected component at the source and the Moome IFB is not showing the same, I think there is a bug in your VP maybe.

craigr

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Nashou66




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PostLink    Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats the thing Craig, i can change all outputs to YUV and the moome card will not switch, the screen is pink and green. I want to do this since the beta firmware i have in the Tv-one has a fix for the stepped vertical lines I am seeing in the blend zone. They say the lines appear more in the YUV to RGB conversion in the TV-one and if i could go YUV in and YUV out the lines are almost eliminated. I'll test one more time but I am Almost positive I have that issue.

Also moome thinks the card might not get the info due to the MUX-HD i am using before the Tv-ones so the VIM-HD cant switch properly.

But it could be the tv-ones. I will try a bunch of tests, its hard to remeber which button on the MUX passes YUV, it is RGB by default. Have to look on the MUX faq's to find which button is the pass through.

EDIT: i also have two HDQ's before the TV-Ones.

Athanasios

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kal
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TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Moome has a new firmware for color space Reply with quote

CIR Engineering wrote:
...I wanted to be able to manually select the color space to use rather than relying on the info frame in the HDMI signal to tell the IFB what color space to use.

So with this firmware, one can use the IFB remote control to select color space manually. All you need know is the following.

Button--> Color Space
    4--> Auto
    5--> YCbCr444
    6--> YCbCr422
    7--> RGB444

This firmware is very useful in some specific situations, but will not provide any benefit in most installations. Because of this, I would suggest NOT updating to this FW unless you actually need it for a specific reason. I have however asked Moome to include this feature on the next build of boards.

Agreed - this is definitely something that 99.9% of people will have no idea what it's for. Is there a way to continue to have the card automatically set the color space when first switched on or resolution is changed or something but have power users override it? I wouldn't want the average user to have to understand or know what this all means. It'll cause support headaches for Moome.

Kal

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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Moome has a new firmware for color space Reply with quote

kal wrote:
CIR Engineering wrote:
...I wanted to be able to manually select the color space to use rather than relying on the info frame in the HDMI signal to tell the IFB what color space to use.

So with this firmware, one can use the IFB remote control to select color space manually. All you need know is the following.

Button--> Color Space
    4--> Auto
    5--> YCbCr444
    6--> YCbCr422
    7--> RGB444

This firmware is very useful in some specific situations, but will not provide any benefit in most installations. Because of this, I would suggest NOT updating to this FW unless you actually need it for a specific reason. I have however asked Moome to include this feature on the next build of boards.

Agreed - this is definitely something that 99.9% of people will have no idea what it's for. Is there a way to continue to have the card automatically set the color space when first switched on or resolution is changed or something but have power users override it? I wouldn't want the average user to have to understand or know what this all means. It'll cause support headaches for Moome.

Kal


4--> Auto

That is the default.

craigr

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CIR Engineering




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PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...auto is necessary for anyone who has more than one source device that combine to use more than one color space, does not use a VP, or has a VP that outputs multiple color spaces with independent resolutions (though I don't know why anyone would NOT use 422 if they have the option).

craigr

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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig helped out last night on the phone and Informed me the lumagen only outputs RGBHV trough its DVI. so that was why i was not getting Digital YCbCr422 to the Moome Vim -HD.

But now I have another issue, my one HDQ seams to have a stutter problem. Judder on movement and the menu flickers. So I did a factory reset and am re uploading the last firmware for the HDQ. then I will load the saved setting from my other HDQ and see if it goes away.

Thanks Craig.

Tom

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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
Craig helped out last night on the phone and Informed me the lumagen only outputs RGBHV trough its DVI. so that was why i was not getting Digital YCbCr422 to the Moome Vim -HD.

But now I have another issue, my one HDQ seams to have a stutter problem. Judder on movement and the menu flickers. So I did a factory reset and am re uploading the last firmware for the HDQ. then I will load the saved setting from my other HDQ and see if it goes away.

Thanks Craig.

Tom

The Vision series from Lumagen only supports RGB on the output, but the Radiance supports any color space on the HDMI outputs... I don't want anyone to think the Radiace can't do YCbCr...

You should run the same FW on both units Tom. Also, if you have any GUI menu up on a Vision the image may judder while the menu or message is posted. As soon as the GUI is cleared the image should run smooth again. So if you had a menu or message on screen, that might explain the judder. This is worse with 72Hz scan rates if that is what you were doing.

craigr

_________________
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JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
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Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CIR Engineering wrote:
Nashou66 wrote:
Craig helped out last night on the phone and Informed me the lumagen only outputs RGBHV trough its DVI. so that was why i was not getting Digital YCbCr422 to the Moome Vim -HD.

But now I have another issue, my one HDQ seams to have a stutter problem. Judder on movement and the menu flickers. So I did a factory reset and am re uploading the last firmware for the HDQ. then I will load the saved setting from my other HDQ and see if it goes away.

Thanks Craig.

Tom

The Vision series from Lumagen only supports RGB on the output, but the Radiance supports any color space on the HDMI outputs... I don't want anyone to think the Radiace can't do YCbCr...

You should run the same FW on both units Tom. Also, if you have any GUI menu up on a Vision the image may judder while the menu or message is posted. As soon as the GUI is cleared the image should run smooth again. So if you had a menu or message on screen, that might explain the judder. This is worse with 72Hz scan rates if that is what you were doing.

craigr


Thaks Craig. I did the firmware update and all is nice and smooth now. I am just using the lumagen before the blend units to do the aspect ratios and then color and gamma correction later to fine tune things till Tv-one gets their act together and writes the Gamma program for the waiting protocol just sitting inside the units waiting to be implemented.

Athanasios

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wingnut2001




Joined: 25 Aug 2010
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

can we order a unit with this function? I have a long HDMI run that needs 422 selection
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CIR Engineering




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PostLink    Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am pretty sure all his new card have this now Smile

craigr

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wingnut2001




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PostLink    Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks Craig, can you confirm moome?, just want to make sure before ordering
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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple weeks ago Moome sent me the chips for my blend. These are very small ,42 pin I think, chips. maybe 1/2 inch square.
I have not done the mod yet . I also have the Banding Mod to do for the marquee. I need a holiday to get all these things done.
And a kick in the ass.

I do think Moome is adding this to all new chips, at least thats what I got from his e-mails.

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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wingnut2001




Joined: 25 Aug 2010
Posts: 37
Location: Horse City of the world!


PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

moome, can you confirm?

thanks
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cinema mad




Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Posts: 219



PostLink    Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wingnut
as others have confirmed, the Answer is 100% Yes..
If you were to order A Moome card today it will have all the
latest upgrades available inc forced 4:2:2..
Moome has confirmed this to me ..

Cheers..
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cinema mad




Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Posts: 219



PostLink    Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
A couple weeks ago Moome sent me the chips for my blend. These are very small ,42 pin I think, chips. maybe 1/2 inch square.
I have not done the mod yet . I also have the Banding Mod to do for the marquee. I need a holiday to get all these things done.
And a kick in the ass.

I do think Moome is adding this to all new chips, at least thats what I got from his e-mails.

Athanasios

Yeah I have to do the same inc the EDID chip..
have you ever used this ChipQuick removal alloy ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTQqjggeklo&feature=related

it Appears to make it extremely easy for SMD IC removal..

http://www.chipquikinc.com/

Cheers...
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cinema mad wrote:
Nashou66 wrote:
A couple weeks ago Moome sent me the chips for my blend. These are very small ,42 pin I think, chips. maybe 1/2 inch square.
I have not done the mod yet . I also have the Banding Mod to do for the marquee. I need a holiday to get all these things done.
And a kick in the ass.

I do think Moome is adding this to all new chips, at least thats what I got from his e-mails.

Athanasios

Yeah I have to do the same inc the EDID chip..
have you ever used this ChipQuick removal alloy ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTQqjggeklo&feature=related

it Appears to make it extremely easy for SMD IC removal..

http://www.chipquikinc.com/

Cheers...

CQ is a low temp alloy that works pretty well for IC removal. It helps because with less heat the solder joints around the IC stay moltent for a longer time as you move a soldering iron around the IC. With normal solder, by the time you liquefy one side of the IC the previous side will be solid again.

For IC replacement QC is pretty good. However, if you ever want to reuse an IC, QC is more of a pain because it is hard to get it all off the small pins of the chip.

On the PCB, be sure to remove every trace of the QC off the board before you attach the new IC. If you leave any on the board it makes for weak solder joints when you install the new IC.

craigr

_________________
*NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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cinema mad




Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Posts: 219



PostLink    Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your reply Craig,

Without A complete ESD safe anti-static Desolder/solder station would you go with the ChipQuick technique and Gas solder pencil ?



Right now I am way more keen to get the new SM EDID chips installed more so than the IC for forced 4:2:2..
Being 8 pin IC's I would think using SMD Rework Flux pen & perhaps Desolder braid to remove the old IC's
would work no? ..

Cheers...
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dropzone7




Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC


PostLink    Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would this be available for the NEC XG HDMI card?
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