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wallace123456
Joined: 14 Aug 2006 Posts: 2236 Location: Northwest VA area
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Link Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 5:33 am Post subject: Dry-Lock type paints. Anyone use them? |
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I am getting ready to re-do the downstairs bedroom. It is about 4' below grade in depth. The walls are concrete brick and the house is about 30 years old.
I am considering using some type of water-proofing paint on the walls but have read mixed reviews and comments on them.
Anyone here use that type of paint in there basement?
Thanks.
wallace
_________________ Life Is Good, But BBQ Is Better! BBQ Competition Team
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10273
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Link Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Being a pessimist I find it difficult to find products like Dry-Lock really capable of 'proofing' anything. Its all about the pressure a well-saturated ground can apply to a porous mason wall. When you exposed the wall, were there signs of moisture? Are there utilities coming through that wall (sewer main, etc.)?
You may want to try Fine Home Building forums and see what they have to say.
_________________ Trust no one. Absolutely no one. Advice of the board.
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Jester
Joined: 27 Jan 2008 Posts: 90 Location: Villa Park Ilinois
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Link Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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I, as a contractor agree with Wanman. The drylock paints are the best for turning a 100 year old Chicago basement/foundation in to an attractive/usable space. If you have a water problem it is NOT going to fix it. at best it will stop the occasional leak from the rare water event. it isn't going to stop a flood, but in my mind, if it is a 5% improvement on water security then I take it. Just don't over estimate its usefulness. Plus its really thick and goes on the rough block/concrete real nice with a big brush.
Inconclusive, use it if you want white walls. I don't think it can be tinted. If not white or willing to paint twice go for it.
any other questions about your basement fell free to ask me, I have built/remodeled quite a few basements and home theaters.
Scott
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10273
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Link Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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Scott, a contractor? <shaking head>
I spent the first 15 months living in my home wrestling with the builder to regrade the clay that came within the foundation. Hairline cracks in the poured concrete walls allowed rain water to carry silt into the basement thanks to poor grading and the lack of a french drain. And in this area, it should have been done due to the thin soil depth (with granite underneath).
Anyway, regrading did the trick, which I follow-ed up with hydraulic cement patches to the hairline cracks. These cracks resulted from settling. Tract building around me is based on pouring concrete walls onto one-week old footings. And then a week later stick-building onto those poured concrete walls. So much for allowing anything to cure.
Anyway, during those 15-months I had brief considered Drylok, but this seemed more of a product resold under advertising to prey on those in desperate situations. While I never employed the product (regrading worked), I am glad I didn't waste money due to desperate wants.
I think folks can be best served by identifying where water is most likely to come into string hydrostatic pressure with the foundation, and then designing a method for moving that water away from the foundation. For instance, the gutter down-pipes on the back of my home are buried and move the water away to near county storm drains on my property.
Next week the gutter down-pipes will be reinstalled to move drained waters from the front-center of the home to the outer corners. This is due to the fact the the front-center location where two down-pipes are draining onto thin soil layers where the home's sewer exits. That polymer seal between the poured concrete wall and the PVC sewer main will fail over time and I do not need to allow hydrostatic acceleration of that future failure.
Wallace, what kind of topography is your home located within? I remember about five years ago someone paid to have a custom home built, cost him a lot of money, and the grade of the terrain was such to move water toward the home, which like my home have no french drain system, or any kind of system to remove moving water away from the home. Classic nature of builders in the North Georgia area.
_________________ Trust no one. Absolutely no one. Advice of the board.
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JustGreg
Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 3098 Location: Kenosha, WI
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Link Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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I'm with Wan on this too...a little research shows facia coatings to be 'mildly' effective at best. More of a placebo affect for the homeowner than anything else.
I too have a 30-ish year old home with a foundation problem. I bought the house 10 years ago and even while looking at it was amazed nobody had ever finished the basement except for the building of a full bath. Good thing too as there's a crack in the foundation outside the theater that runs slab to foundation top. Somebody had covered it with hydraulic concrete and painted over it with a very heavy epoxy paint (the entire foundation was coated with this). What a bitch it was to chip all of that off! I suspect the crack is from a cold pour and not just caused by settling due to the difference in concrete texture on each side of the crack.
I bought a DIY injection kit to fix it. I've yet to get around to it as it doesn't always leak, rather it only leaks like it did on Christmas day when it's been cold enough long enough for the frost layer to make it down a couple feet and then it either rains or warms up enough for snowmelt. Kind of Perfect Storm scenario if you will. Normally the water goes to the bottom of the foundation and under the slab where it's picked up by the French drain and then to the sump pump OR the water rides on the surface and away from the house if it rains when the ground is frozen down below the foundation.
Check it out here:
http://www.basementandcrawlspaceproducts.com/product.asp?catID=101&subCatID=94
I haven't repaired mine yet so can't say how effective it is because I wanted to 'catch' the seepage in the act. Don't ask me why; I just wanted to see what part of the crack it was coming from before I used the kit. I better use it soon as I'm not sure if there's a shelf life for the components.
Good luck.
_________________ Greg
"Is it ignorance or apathy? Hey, I don't know and I don't care!" --Jimmy Buffett
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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Link Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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I'll offer a counterpoint to everybody jumping on the "Drylok is worthless" bandwagon.
If you have a water problem, yes - Drylok is not going to solve it. If, on the other hand, you have a humidity problem in your basement, then Drylok is certainly one possible solution.
It sounds like Wallace's basement foundation is CMU - concrete masonry unit. If it's not properly sealed on the outside, being a porous cementitious product, CMU will wick moisture from the surrounding soil, and if exposed, dry to the interior. In that situation, Drylock absolutely would help to lower the humidity level of the basement interior.
Now, if you're going to finish the walls and cover them, then that's a much deeper subject. In that case, the Drylok still isn't worthless, but would be one part of an overall solution. Most important, you'll need to have a water-proofing solution in place outside the foundation.
SC
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tri_joel
Joined: 03 Jul 2007 Posts: 646 Location: Northern Virginia
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Link Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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ecrabb wrote: | I'll offer a counterpoint to everybody jumping on the "Drylok is worthless" bandwagon.
If you have a water problem, yes - Drylok is not going to solve it. If, on the other hand, you have a humidity problem in your basement, then Drylok is certainly one possible solution.
It sounds like Wallace's basement foundation is CMU - concrete masonry unit. If it's not properly sealed on the outside, being a porous cementitious product, CMU will wick moisture from the surrounding soil, and if exposed, dry to the interior. In that situation, Drylock absolutely would help to lower the humidity level of the basement interior.
Now, if you're going to finish the walls and cover them, then that's a much deeper subject. In that case, the Drylok still isn't worthless, but would be one part of an overall solution. Most important, you'll need to have a water-proofing solution in place outside the foundation.
SC |
Just remember that when you paint the stuff on the interior side of the CMU then the moisture will get trapped in the CMU. If you want to waterproof or moisture proof anything, it needs to be done from the exterior side - never the interior.
_________________ www.vawinesnob.com
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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Link Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 12:03 am Post subject: |
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Agreed, Joel. But, since most people are unwilling to spend the money or time to excavate the entire foundation outside their homes to do the exterior waterproofing right...
If the exterior hasn't been damp-proofed or waterproofed (or the damp-proofing/waterproofing is functionally gone), then you're not technically "trapping" moisture; you're just going to put the entire wall at the same humidity/moisture level as the surrounding soil. Like I said, it won't work if you have a water problem.
Ideally, nobody would even finish a basement until the foundation was very well waterproofed. By "waterproofed", I don't mean spray-on moisture-proofing, either... I mean a two-layer system like DELTA with a self-adhesive membrane to completely seal and damp-proof the concrete, and a second drain layer to waterproof and eliminate the hydrostatic pressure on the concrete. Next time I build a house, that's how I will do the basement foundation exterior.
SC
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wallace123456
Joined: 14 Aug 2006 Posts: 2236 Location: Northwest VA area
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Link Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:16 am Post subject: |
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WanMan wrote: | Wallace, what kind of topography is your home located within? |
Rolling hills. The ground drains well. The house is a split level ranch. Ground level in the basement is about chest high.
After Parker came over and told me of his problems with mold and water drainage, he advised on proper water drainage as a first step. I hooked up a rain-gutter downspout tube to carry the water from the from rain gutter out to the middle of the yard. Have not had any water seeping in the basement since.
The water problem is not like a leaking situation. It seeps when it rains and the water is allowed to drain next the foundation.
But, I am going to re-do the bedroom and considered paiting the walls with some Dry-Lock type stuff before putting up insulation and dry-wall.
I am more on the cautious side at this point
wallace
_________________ Life Is Good, But BBQ Is Better! BBQ Competition Team
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10273
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Link Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:20 am Post subject: |
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ecrabb wrote: | I'll offer a counterpoint to everybody jumping on the "Drylok is worthless" bandwagon.
If you have a water problem, yes - Drylok is not going to solve it. If, on the other hand, you have a humidity problem in your basement, then Drylok is certainly one possible solution.
It sounds like Wallace's basement foundation is CMU - concrete masonry unit. If it's not properly sealed on the outside, being a porous cementitious product, CMU will wick moisture from the surrounding soil, and if exposed, dry to the interior. In that situation, Drylock absolutely would help to lower the humidity level of the basement interior.
Now, if you're going to finish the walls and cover them, then that's a much deeper subject. In that case, the Drylok still isn't worthless, but would be one part of an overall solution. Most important, you'll need to have a water-proofing solution in place outside the foundation.
SC | A simple 10-14 day patch test will reveal how much moisture is reaching the interior surface of the concrete block. Any appearance of dryness is never to be consider beyond face value. The relative humidity of the interior space is typically a consequence of moisture passing completely through the block and evaporating into the interior air.
Trying to hold back that kind of moisture with marketed-for-desperation paints will have limited affects. I'd much rather see someone address the block wall from the exterior first. Backhoe the soil a couple of feet off of the block, wash it down, power clean the block's exterior surface, use a commercial spray-on barrier product, install a french drain, return soil back and then test the interior surface.
As you said, the block is already wicking the moisture. Why not stop that first?
_________________ Trust no one. Absolutely no one. Advice of the board.
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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Link Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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WanMan wrote: | I'd much rather see someone address the block wall from the exterior first. |
Agreed. I already said as much.
WanMan wrote: | As you said, the block is already wicking the moisture. Why not stop that first? |
Maybe the search for a contractor (you're aware of how much fun THAT can be), the multi-thousand dollar bill from said contractor to excavate, clean, wait to dry, spray, wait to dry, backfill? The total destruction of any and all landscaping in the affected areas, as well as the solid week of the house looking like a train wreck? Those could certainly be "why nots" for some people.
SC
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