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Blending with a PC
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antorsae



Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 297



PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:36 am    Post subject: Blending with a PC Reply with quote


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The software-only blend is completely functional, although it is more limited and not as plug and play as a hardware based one.

HARDWARE REQUIRED:
* Modern NVIDIA CARD with two heads (video-outputs). Most of them have that today. I think any 3 year old Nvidia would do.
* TWO PJs

SOFTWARE REQUIRED:
* WINDOWS XP (maybe it works in Windows Vista/7 - I have not tried it)
* Media Player Classic - HC Go download this http://www.codecguide.com/download_kl.htm (Standard edition) has everything you need.

OPTIONAL HARDWARE:
* Another video card (same brand as above) to drive a 3 projector to aid in geometry
* Another projector (digital would be nice) to aid in geometry - so you overlay geometry

INSTALLATION:
* Each video out needs to be connected to each CRT
* IN NVidia Control Panel create new resolutions depending on your blend overlap, e.g.


~2.35 AR -> 1920x820 -> for 10% blend you need to create custom resolutions for each PJ:

1056 x 820 @ 72 Hz

Once you are done with this, go to multiple monitor setup and select Horizontal Span, and now select the 2112 x 820 resolution you would be seeing.

You will now have each projector displaying one half of the 2112 x 820 desktop each but the center would be overlapped but not compensated. To apply edge-blending compensation I've written a small pixel shader that works in the player Media Player Classic.

If anybody is really interested in replicating this, let me know and I will post the shader as well as some screenshots.

PROS of this approach
Cheaper than a hardware based solution
You can get 1:1 pixel mapping (not possible with the DVX-8022, yes with the TV-ONE)
Complete control over individual gamma curves for each projector (further more, if you us RGBHV you have 10-bit gamma correction LUTs)
You can do crazy refresh rates as you are no longer limited by full-frame pixel clocks, e.g. 1080x820 @ 96 Hz are possible. Possibly nice for stereo/3d.

CONS of this approach
You really need to know what you are doing and understand how the video card control panel works
It only works with the PC as a source with specific video player (Media Player Classic), and subtitles don't work right
No nice UI for configuration, blend parameters (with and numeric gamma to start, are editable in a file, that's it)


Last edited by antorsae on Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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antorsae



Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 297



PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more note, what Athanasios is referring to is a complementary tool that measures R G B values using a digital camera (a Canon DSLR in my case) and creates compensation gamma compensation curves so that projectors are COMPLETELY matched color-wise across all 0-100 IRE.

Right now the software feeds LUT tables for the software-only blend but I want to adapt it adjust G2/drives levels directly in the projector. I have already written the code to talk to the Marquee projectors, but I need to piece everything together. If I only had more time!
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MikeEby



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5236
Location: Osceola, Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

antorsae wrote:
The software-only blend is completely functional, although it is more limited and not as plug and play as a hardware based one.

HARDWARE REQUIRED:
* Modern NVIDIA CARD with two heads (video-outputs). Most of them have that today. I think any 3 year old Nvidia would do.
* TWO PJs

SOFTWARE REQUIRED:
* WINDOWS XP (maybe it works in Windows Vista/7 - I have not tried it)
* Media Player Classic - HC Go download this http://www.codecguide.com/download_kl.htm (Standard edition) has everything you need.

OPTIONAL HARDWARE:
* Another video card (same brand as above) to drive a 3 projector to aid in geometry
* Another projector (digital would be nice) to aid in geometry - so you overlay geometry

INSTALLATION:
* Each video out needs to be connected to each CRT
* IN NVidia Control Panel create new resolutions depending on your blend overlap, e.g.


~2.35 AR -> 1920x820 -> for 10% blend you need to create custom resolutions for each PJ:

1056 x 820 @ 72 Hz

Once you are done with this, go to multiple monitor setup and select Horizontal Span, and now select the 2112 x 820 resolution you would be seeing.

You will now have each projector displaying one half of the 2112 x 820 desktop each but the center would be overlapped but not compensated. To apply edge-blending compensation I've written a small pixel shader that works in the player Media Player Classic.

If anybody is really interested in replicating this, let me know and I will post the shader as well as some screenshots.

PROS of this approach
Cheaper than a hardware based solution
You can get 1:1 pixel mapping (not possible with the DVX-8022, yes with the TV-ONE)
Complete control over individual gamma curves for each projector (further more, if you us RGBHV you have 10-bit gamma correction LUTs)
You can do crazy refresh rates as you are no longer limited by full-frame pixel clocks, e.g. 1080x820 @ 96 Hz are possible. Possibly nice for stereo/3d.

CONS of this approach
You really need to know what you are doing and understand how the video card control panel works
It only works with the PC as a source with specific video player (Media Player Classic), and subtitles don't work right
No nice UI for configuration, blend parameters (with and numeric gamma to start, are editable in a file, that's it)



Holy crap...this sounds cool...We might want to start a new thread for it, I don't want to clutter Athanasios thread.

The cost of the TVOne boxes turned me off on a blend...But this....humm

Mike

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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24711
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Andre, would it be OK with you if I split off your post about the PC blend to a separate thread? Or would you like to make a new thread yourself that we could pick your brain in? Maybe in HTPC's? We'll make it a stickey.
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AnalogRocks
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PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok now we need some screen shots in this thread Very Happy
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MikeEby



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5236
Location: Osceola, Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:
Ok now we need some screen shots in this thread Very Happy


Well this is as far as I have gotten so far and I'm very empressed but I can't figure out how to turn on the blend zone? I think I need the shaders.

FYI I could not get Vista or Windows 7 to work, that is not a deal breaker at all. The NVidia drivers will not allow maximized window to span both screens...OR at least I could not make it do that. What I'm empressed with is the stabilty is rock solid.



Mike

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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24711
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

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PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now those are my kinda screen shots!

What Nvida card are you using Mike?

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16156
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike your right you need the shading program that I think Andre wrote. I can ask him to E-mail it to me if you want?

Athanasios

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MikeEby



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5236
Location: Osceola, Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:

What Nvida card are you using Mike?


This one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814139045

I picked it because it also has component out...Figured I could use it on my RPTV if the blend was a bust.

Mike

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MikeEby



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5236
Location: Osceola, Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
Mike your right you need the shading program that I think Andre wrote. I can ask him to E-mail it to me if you want?

Athanasios


Thanks Athanasios!...Damn this sucks...Only you know how much work this could be.

Mike

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16156
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeEby wrote:
Nashou66 wrote:
Mike your right you need the shading program that I think Andre wrote. I can ask him to E-mail it to me if you want?

Athanasios


Thanks Athanasios!...Damn this sucks...Only you know how much work this could be.

Mike


yeah it is a lot of work, but if you like challenges, like I do, its satisfying the closer and closer you get.
I'll email him if he want's to share that program, maybe he can upload it as an attachment zip file here.


Athanasios

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bbfarmht



Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 1272
Location: Where the Mississippi runs east to west!!


PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So it doesn't work in vista or 7. With that in min,d does MP play the Bd movies you have? Also I never asked or found out if the audio is in the hd format also?

Next is it critical on which nvidia card or any will do? Would it be better to use 2 cards rather than one?

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MikeEby



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5236
Location: Osceola, Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bbfarmht wrote:
So it doesn't work in vista or 7. With that in min,d does MP play the Bd movies you have? Also I never asked or found out if the audio is in the hd format also?

Next is it critical on which nvidia card or any will do? Would it be better to use 2 cards rather than one?


Adam,
You must use MPC-HC (Media Player Classic Home Cinema) itís a very lightweight reliable open source (FREE) player with about a zillion options. The movie must reside on a media server or just a hard drive. When it is ripped the audio tracks are re-encoded to a lossloss codex called FLAC and outputted analog, you might be able to do LPCM or SPDIF too I just never have. There are several methods to rip a movie; some only take a few clicks, and about an hour to perform the rip.

I don't see a reason for 2 cards at this point...The projectors can be fed an analog signal just as they were designed for. It truly blending on the Cheap.

If I do pursue this I would build a small simple PC with only a boot drive, perhaps even an SSD drive. Then rip the movie to the server and run then movie to the blender PC over the network. This is actually the way I run my current setup. To watch a movie you just double click on the file and movie starts in a few seconds.

Mike

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Last edited by MikeEby on Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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bbfarmht



Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 1272
Location: Where the Mississippi runs east to west!!


PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the same idea about the pc I think a small ssd of maybe 60 gig would be more than enough. I think using two cards would be a little easier on the gpu's.
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Adam

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both"

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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24711
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a way to play a bluray/DVD direct without ripping?
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MikeEby



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5236
Location: Osceola, Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:
Is there a way to play a bluray/DVD direct without ripping?


I don't think so, some people have claimed you can with MPC-HC and AnyDVD-HD to but I don't see how they could have HD audio. Ripping is really simple, once you do a few disks there's nothing to it. Did you look at my GUI ripping thread? It only takes 5 or 6 clicks and type the name of the movie, it will move the forced subtitles into the picture area a must for scope screens that even high dollar blu-ray players won't do yet. If you have any questions on the GUI donít be afraid to ask, I have some time this weekend Iíll try to post an update.

I did notice Subtitles to appear to work, they may be mess up though when blend zone is working.

Adam, Checkout this slick looking case, comes with a remote too.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129046&Tpk=antec%20black%20M%20fusionremot

Mike

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Last edited by MikeEby on Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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AnalogRocks
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Posts: 24711
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually bought AnyDVD to avoid having to rip DVD's so I could watch them in real time. I know it's simple but there's something to be said or just putting the disk in and pushing play.
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MikeEby



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Location: Osceola, Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:
I actually bought AnyDVD to avoid having to rip DVD's so I could watch them in real time. I know it's simple but there's something to be said or just putting the disk in and pushing play.


LOL...Yeah...I can understand that...There is all so something nice about having access to your entire blu-ray collection with a few clicks...Keep the disks packed away...I sometimes just go down to the theater and watch my favorite movie scenes...With a media server its so easy.

Mike

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AnalogRocks
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PostLink    Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah I know I had a bunch on the PC before the AnyDVD software. I also have a shite load of TV stuff that I record too so it is nice to be able to just scroll and click but when I feel the need to rent something ( time permitting ) I just like to slip in in and go.
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bbfarmht



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PostLink    Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:
I just like to slip in in and go.



That's what she said!!! Shocked Laughing Mr. Green Twisted Evil

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Adam

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