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Blending with a PC
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25459
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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bbfarmht wrote:
AnalogRocks wrote:
I just like to slip in in and go.



That's what she said!!! Shocked Laughing Mr. Green Twisted Evil


ooops did I do a double entendre?

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MikeEby



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
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PostLink    Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:
Oh yeah I know I had a bunch on the PC before the AnyDVD software. I also have a shite load of TV stuff that I record too so it is nice to be able to just scroll and click but when I feel the need to rent something ( time permitting ) I just like to slip in in and go.


You can just make dinner first and have a drink or two...And delete the movie when your done.

Mike

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bbfarmht



Joined: 27 May 2006
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Location: Where the Mississippi runs east to west!!


PostLink    Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is some great stuff. Have you tried figuring out the shaders, Mike? Also, I'm not sure what case I want to use. I do know I am going to use this cpu Amd II X4 620.
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MikeEby



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
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PostLink    Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bbfarmht wrote:
This is some great stuff. Have you tried figuring out the shaders, Mike? Also, I'm not sure what case I want to use. I do know I am going to use this cpu Amd II X4 620.


No, I haven’t heard back from Andre’ yet…The case I posted has an LED display…Of course not knowing yet how the how the shaders work I can’t commit but I might be able to write some code that adjusts the shader values with the remote and displays the values on the case display. I would love to take a trip to Athanasios’s and see how the TVOne’s work and attempt reproduction functions similar.

Don’t buy anything yet until we see how this works...It's too early to commit to buying hardware. I just used stuff I had laying around. I'm optimistic but like Andre’ said...It's not plug and play...But when ever is anything Plug and Play when a CRT projector is involved, CRT owners have very thick skins...and tons of patients.

Mike

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bbfarmht



Joined: 27 May 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeEby wrote:
and tons of patients.
Mike


If you mean projectors laying around, yeah we got those!!

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MikeEby



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
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PostLink    Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bbfarmht wrote:
MikeEby wrote:
and tons of patients.
Mike


If you mean projectors laying around, yeah we got those!!


I probably hold the AVS record...In January I will be member 10 years..and I've only owned 2 projectors. A Barco 800 and the XG I have now. I think Kal and I are running neck and neck. He might have had an XG on trial that knocked him out of the race...He was a former Barco 800 owner too.

I need to convince Wanman a CRT is too much trouble...He has a twin to my XG with new tubes. Mr. Green


Mike

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antorsae



Joined: 16 Jul 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike,

I have some screenshots in my computer to aid in the set up, including specific configuration options in MPC. I'd recommend that you make sure you get pixel shaders working first (e.g. there's a bunch of sample ones) and then once you've get it to work add the blend pixel shader:

Code:

sampler s0 : register(s0);
float4 p0 : register(c0);
float4 p1 : register(c1);

#define width (p0[0])
#define height (p0[1])
#define counter (p0[2])
#define clock (p0[3])
#define one_over_width (p1[0])
#define one_over_height (p1[1])

float4 main(float2 tex : TEXCOORD0) : COLOR
{
 // blend in percentage
 float blends = 0.10;

 // OR alternatively (comment the line above and uncomment the next one)
 // assuming the TOTAL desktop spans 2112 pixels (1056 px each projector)
 // this is intended to get 1:1 horizontal pixel mapping with no resampling
 // float blends = (2112.0-width)*one_over_width;

 float2 t;
 t.y = tex.y;
 t.x = tex.x * (1+blends);
 if ((tex.x - 0.5) > 0) t.x = tex.x * (1+blends) - blends;
 float c = 1;
 if (abs(tex.x-0.5) < blends) c = pow(abs(tex.x-0.5)/blends, 1/2.22);

 return tex2D(s0, t) * c ;
}


There's only two things to configure:

* Blend size (either in percentage -> 0.10 -> 10%; or in pixels... comment/uncomment lines accordingly)
* Gamma for all 3 channels, change the 2.22 number to whatever fits you. You can edit this to have different gammas for each R G B channel (I can do that if you want) and if you want to disable the blend compensation for image alignment just commen this line:

if (abs(tex.x-0.5) < blends) c = pow(abs(tex.x-0.5)/blends, 1/2.22);


In addition, if you want to set integer values, add .0 after them... e.g. gamma 2, needs to be 2.0

Let me know how this works. I've been busy over the weekend with the G2/DRIVE auto calibration software (related, but independent to this)

Hasta luego,

Andres
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MikeEby



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andres,
I more or less understand the code...I can't seem to find any informaton on how to use it, so I think I might need some of your screen shots, I can host them on my server and post them here if you like. If you want to shoot me a PM when you have time, I'll reply back with my email address.

Thanks!
Mike

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VideoGrabber



Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 933
Location: Michigan


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike commented:
> CRT owners have very thick skins...and tons of patients. <

"Doctor, you need to be patient! Patience I've got, it's patients I need."

> I probably hold the AVS record...In January I will be member 10 years.. <

I was kinda surprised myself. I just checked and it's been 10 years for me there this month! Shocked

Andres posted some C code...

I don't know if this gets called in real-time or not (I assume so), but there are multiple recalcs of a floating point (tex.x - 0.5), and the constant 1/2.22 gets recalculated repeatedly as well. If you've got a good optimizing compiler, this may not make much difference, but I've always been in the habit of factoring out common subexpressions on my own.

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antorsae



Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 297



PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, here's some screenshots to aid in the set up.

1. SET UP BOTH DISPLAYS (ONE FOR EACH PJ) TO BE CONFIGURED INDEPENDENTLY



2. CREATE CUSTOM RESOLUTION/S AS NEEDED (in my experience, doing it in the first (left) PJ suffices)



3. SET UP DISPLAYS IN HORIZONTAL SPAN MODE



4. SELECT THE DESKTOP RESOLUTION TO GET THE FULL SPAN



5. SETUP MPC OUTPUT TO VMR7/9 AND 3D SURFACES

Open MPC (I recommend the version included in the downloads in the first post of this thread), go to Output and make sure you set VMR7/9 with 3D Surfaces (they are required for pixel shaders). You may have to download DirectX9 if you haven't already



6. EDIT/TOGGLE PIXEL SHADERS

Now play a movie (you may have to open/close MPC for the changes to take effect), right click on the screen and click on "EDIT" Pixel Shaders..



7. ADD A NEW 'BLEND' PIXEL SHADER

Now on the pixel shader type "blend", you'll get a default pixel shader that does nothing. Overwrite it with the one posted in this thread, the result should look like this:



Hope this helps...
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moggy



Joined: 23 Oct 2009
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Location: Melbourne, Australia


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all, This all sounds rather interesting as I intend to blend 2 projectors in the near future, or at least die trying.
I have an idea that uses 2 pcs genlocked.

Anyway, if this MPC method proved good then I could dispense with my previous idea and simply use a single pc with a dual head. I have a nvidia FX3400 for the job.

My question is HD??
On the face of it the blending is good. I can see that it would take a bit of arithmetic and trial and error to get the right settings. I can understand that but at least it does the blending of an overlap. Smile
I went through all the MPC settings with the shader and it took me a while to realise that the shader only works with SD, and not HD. I couldn't understand why the shader kept disabling itself until I realised the SD fact.

I couldn't get the blending (or any other shader for that matter) to work with HD files!
Am I missing something?
Without HD the player is for nought.

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antorsae



Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 297



PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moggy,

I don't know what settings are wrong but the shaders do in fact work with HD. Maybe your HD decoders are not compatible w/ VMR 9 renderless (?).
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moggy



Joined: 23 Oct 2009
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Location: Melbourne, Australia


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

antorsae wrote:
Moggy,

I don't know what settings are wrong but the shaders do in fact work with HD. Maybe your HD decoders are not compatible w/ VMR 9 renderless (?).


I have no idea what "my" hd decoders are. I don't have bits of software that I am on such personal terms with.

I would have thought that the k-lite would have installed everything. Why shouldn't it?

It's nice to know that it can do HD but unless I know where to go next then I'll probably bail out.

As much as I need a pc solution I'm continually dismayed by the complexity of hundreds of options and little explanation with players on pcs.

I mean, the player itself plays the HD videos alright, and spans across 2 monitors just fine.
Hopefully someone has found the same problem and shares their results here.
Sigh.
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antorsae



Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 297



PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. PC is far from plug and play... Sad
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MikeEby



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5236
Location: Osceola, Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

antorsae wrote:
Agreed. PC is far from plug and play... Sad


However I think there might be some ways we can improve that.

I'll play around with it tonight.


Mike

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MikeEby



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andres,

This was really easy with your your screen shots, I was blending in 5 minutes...This really looks great, not plug and play yet, and there are a few things to address but the great thing is everything is open source.

Subtitles are a problem as you said, they do work they just won't blend right that could be fixed, I'm going to look into that first.

I'm at the point where I'm going to start looking for another projector.

BTW here are a screen capture and a screen shot off the computer monitors.







Mike

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Last edited by MikeEby on Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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Nashou66



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PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blending is fun isn't it Mike!!! You just looking at the easy stuff, on a real front crt its not that easy, but i encourage you to try it. you definitely learn a lot about your PJ and your own set up skills. Do the NEC's have zone contrast modulation to brighten up the edges? if not its going to be hard to do.

Athanasios

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huggy



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PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Antorsae.........you are a legend Thumbs Up

Mike........If you can come up with a GUI for this like eac3to so dumdums like myself can actually have a chance of blending via a p.c,then I will gladly jump on a plane ,fly up to the states and kiss your beloved ass Mr. Green OK maybe not you get what I mean Very Happy



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Mark_A_W



Joined: 15 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

antorsae wrote:
Moggy,

I don't know what settings are wrong but the shaders do in fact work with HD. Maybe your HD decoders are not compatible w/ VMR 9 renderless (?).


Why VMR9?


Surely EVR Custom would be a better choice, particularly with the Gothsync version of MPC-HC for smooth playback?


(Best playback is with madVR and Reclock, but I don't think that will allow the shaders to work).
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MikeEby



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5236
Location: Osceola, Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
Blending is fun isn't it Mike!!! You just looking at the easy stuff, on a real front crt its not that easy, but i encourage you to try it. you definitely learn a lot about your PJ and your own set up skills. Do the NEC's have zone contrast modulation to brighten up the edges? if not its going to be hard to do.

Athanasios


Oh I know your absolutely right...This is the easy stuff, I'm not sure about the contrast modulation. I might have to get hold of Bob (Boilermaker) and see how his blend is working out, I think he's using XG's. Next step is take the blender pc down to the theater and do some testing...I'm just taking this really slow, I'll have a lot of demolition in my theater to do if this is the direction I decide to go. I do have another room to do some extensive testing first.

Mike

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