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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17860 Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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Link Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:36 pm Post subject: FAQ: High Performance Bellows for Marquees and clones |
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Marquee High Performance Bellows
Click HERE to order!
To be notified immediately of any news on Marquee High Performance Bellows, click HERE (you must be registered and logged in to the forum). Sign up for our newsletter too.
We are proud to offer these custom made Electrohome Marquee CRT projector high performance bellows that have been carefully reverse engineered using better materials than the original (no longer available) stock bellow. Lab tested for superior performance!
What are bellows?
On higher end Electrohome Marquee CRT projectors (or clones) the tubes are cooled by glycol that is located in a chamber on the front of the tube face. This chamber consists of the tube's aluminum housing, a flexible rubber bellow, and another aluminum plate that seals the first lens element (called the c-element) with the bellow. The chamber that is created by these parts is where the glycol is held.
This system cools the CRT face and also reduces halo'ing on the screen. This is done to increase the contrast ratio for the best image quality possible. Lower end CRT projectors use air instead of glycol in the gap so no bellow is required.
Which projectors can use these bellows?
All liquid-coupled (LC) Electrohome Marquee projectors (and clones) can use these bellows. This includes but is not necessarily limited to:
- Electrohome Marquee 8500LC, 8500LC Ultra, 9000, 9500LC, 9500LC Ultra
- Accurate Imaging Technologies 9, 9-X
- Crystal View CV-1
- GTT Audio Video HT Reference 9
- Madrigal MP-8, MP-9
- Reference Imaging CinePro 9x, 9x Elite
- Spatz Tech RE9000, RE9500
- Theater Automation Wow (TAW) HD-900
- Vidikron Vision 1
- Visual Dynamics Reference 9
Why would I want new bellows?
Two reasons:
1. Over time the old style bellows may leak and "sweat" glycol out into the projector which can destroy other components as glycol is a very corrosive material.
2. When you put in new tubes you need to replace the bellows as new tubes do not come with bellows. Removing the existing bellows without destroying them is nearly impossible, and the original (stock) bellows are no longer available for purchase.
How do I know if my bellows are leaking?
Look around the front of your LC chamber for any clear liquid seeping out from the gasket around the face plate, or where the C-Element is connected.
If one of your existing bellows feels slippery or you can see little droplets on the rubber this means the bellow is aging or saturated with glycol and should be replaced as the highly corrosive glycol may drip into the projector. It will look like this:
As you can imagine, leaking/sweating of any fluids in and around tubes running at 35,000+ volts isn't a very good thing! If you see any leaking or sweating you should immediately stop using your projector and replace the bellows!
If I replace my bellows, won't I have to do it all over again some day?
No. The original bellows are 99% silicon which have a lower vapour transmission than the new ethylene-propylene material we use in our replacement bellows. Ethylene-propylene has a 7.5 times larger vapour transmission number. This means that these new bellows will not absorb moisture from the air and transfer it to the glycol which then causes the increase in pressure resulting in leaking and/or sweating.
How do I replace the bellows myself?
Order your new bellows from the Order Page. We always recommend replacing all 3 bellows at the same time. Then follow the Marquee LC Bellow & C-Element Removal instructions found in the Advanced Procedures area of our site.
I don't want to do it myself. Can I pay someone else to do it?
Yes! You may have bellows replaced by DraganM at the same time that you order his Marquee HD mods. To order see the Marquee HD mods page.
Pictures & Design
Finished bellows ready for installation:
Side cut-away view of the bellow design:
CAD drawing used in the machine manufacturing of the new bellows:
Heated Press with Marquee Bellow mold getting ready:
Heat controls for Press. 360F is the required temperature for 470 seconds:
Top and Middle section of the mold:
Bottom section of the mold for the undercut of the C-element:
Raw rubber in place ready to make a new bellow:
New bellow partially pulled out of mold after pressing:
Reviews/Testimonials
"This piece of engineering was, great, fantastic. It fit like a glove. I don't know how this could have been done without a new bellow, **** I just tore that old one out. I tried to be ginger with it and **** that, Rip It out. A big WAY TO GO NASHOU!" - Dturco
"I got mine on Monday! They look awesome!" - CRT Ben
"I received my bellows last week, and finished my projector last weekend. Thanks to Nashou for the easy and fast shipping to Germany! these bellows are just great! I don't know what I've done without them..." - Seanoise
"Thanks for making this possible for the Marquee folks out there !" - Tom W.
"This is the fastest shipping (I think) I've ever gotten anything from the USA. I think that was under 10 business days [to Canada]." - Mr. Green
Click HERE to order!
Questions? Email us at: athanasios@curtpalme.com
When purchasing you will be paying and dealing directly with the third party seller 'Athanasios'. While this service is not sold or supported directly by CurtPalme.com, we are in the service business and our only goal is your complete satisfaction. We work with our vendors to ensure you are completely satisfied.
DISCLAIMER (Legal mumbo-jumbo because we have to): Any dealings with the third party seller/manufacturer listed here, including the delivery of and the payment for goods and services, and any other terms, conditions, warranties or representations associated with such dealings or promotions, are solely between you and the third party seller/manufacturer. Curtpalme.com shall not be responsible or liable for any part of any such dealings or promotions.
CURTPALME.COM IS NOT THE SELLER OR MANUFACTURER OF THESE PRODUCTS OR SERVICES. THE SELLER/MANUFACTURER MAY HAVE PROVIDED A WARRANTY ON THE GOOD(S) PURCHASED. CURTPALME.COM HAS NOT MADE, AND DOES NOT MAKE, ANY REPRESENTATION, WARRANTY, PROMISE OR COVENANT, EXPRESS OF IMPLIED, AS TO THE CONDITION, QUALITY, DURABILITY, CAPABILITY, FUNCTION, PERFORMANCE, OR SUITABILITY OF THE EQUIPMENT, ITS MERCHANTABILITY OR ITS FITNESS FOR ANY PARTICULAR PURPOSE. BUYER AGREES THAT CURTPALME.COM SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR EITHER SPECIFIC PERFORMANCE OR ANY LIABILITY, LOSS, TAMPERING, ABUSE, DAMAGE, INCLUDING CONSEQUENTIAL AND INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, ARISING OUT OF BUYER'S PURCHASE OF THE EQUIPMENT, ANY DEFECTS IN THE EQUIPMENT, OR FAILURE OF SELLER/MANUFACTURER TO TIMELY DELIVER THE EQUIPMENT.
_________________
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Last edited by kal on Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:51 pm; edited 3 times in total
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado
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Link Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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this is great. curtpalme.com , saving the CRT hobby one tube at a time One small correction though, All CRT's need coolant.
Quote: | Lower end CRT projectors use air to cool instead of glycol so no bellow is required. | should read=
Lower end CRT projectors have an air gap between the lens and cooling chamber, so no bellow is required.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17860 Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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dturco
Joined: 06 Feb 2009 Posts: 3779 Location: Eastern Shore Maryland
TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner
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Link Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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My that first persons testimonial is a tad off color. What could **** have been? Perhaps the poster might consider a publication from Roget's.
_________________ Firefly rules. Can't stop the signal.
http://www.hulu.com/firefly
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY
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Link Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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Dave i am reposting this from your poll thread about what mod to do first to your Marquee.
dturco wrote: | I ran GOZER for 6 hours last night. No leaks, and the bellows weren't even warm when I turned it off. I will Keep monitoring it. Also I did not use any RTV.
A note on installing the bellows DO NOT put the LC chamber together with the bolts before you install the C-Element. It will push the bellow off of the housing OR compress the bellow in such a way as to produce a brown ring on screen during bright scenes. My blue needs to be re-done to get rid of this phenomena.
This is my fault not the bellows, the red and green are fine. The blue never felt right but I went ahead any way. I'll fix it later. |
Dave, just a follow up here as Dale at Apple rubber wants to know how the Seal is on the bellows with no RTV. I assume it's still going strong?
I just want to make sure that these bellows can be used with or without RTV, Dale seams to think they would work best without.
But if your anal then go with the RTV.
I'll be looking for your answer.
Athanasios
_________________ Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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dturco
Joined: 06 Feb 2009 Posts: 3779 Location: Eastern Shore Maryland
TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner
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Link Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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Nashou66 wrote: | Dave i am reposting this from your poll thread about what mod to do first to your Marquee.
dturco wrote: | I ran GOZER for 6 hours last night. No leaks, and the bellows weren't even warm when I turned it off. I will Keep monitoring it. Also I did not use any RTV.
A note on installing the bellows DO NOT put the LC chamber together with the bolts before you install the C-Element. It will push the bellow off of the housing OR compress the bellow in such a way as to produce a brown ring on screen during bright scenes. My blue needs to be re-done to get rid of this phenomena.
This is my fault not the bellows, the red and green are fine. The blue never felt right but I went ahead any way. I'll fix it later. |
Dave, just a follow up here as Dale at Apple rubber wants to know how the Seal is on the bellows with no RTV. I assume it's still going strong?
I just want to make sure that these bellows can be used with or without RTV, Dale seams to think they would work best without.
But if your anal then go with the RTV.
I'll be looking for your answer.
Athanasios |
You are corrrect I did not use anything, no RTV, no adhesives, nothing but the tiny little screws that are already there . It's been a couple of months and a few hundred hours and there are no leaks of any kind.
_________________ Firefly rules. Can't stop the signal.
http://www.hulu.com/firefly
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado
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Link Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:59 am Post subject: |
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Nashou66 wrote: | Awesome!! I knew they would not need the RTV unless your anal like Dragan
I'll let dale know his small change to increase the compression factor of the sealing ridges worked.
Athanasios | what's worse than re-building a marquee LC tube?
Answer: Re-building the same LC chamber twice
I actually don't use RTV on the clamped C-element side anymore but I still like to know it's there on the bolted side.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY
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Link Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:56 am Post subject: |
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Like I said, your anal lol
That new LUG VDC red tube I got on e-bay last year, I took it apart( I know, I know," you took apart a NEW TUBE!!" I was curious! ) and it had no silicon either, as well as the donor bellow from the 8"LC chamber set I have.
I bet the heat sink of the older M9000's were larger cause the Thompson tubes ran with 40kv If I remember correctly and maybe they ran hotter?
Just a hypothesis.
Athanasios
_________________ Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY
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dturco
Joined: 06 Feb 2009 Posts: 3779 Location: Eastern Shore Maryland
TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner
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Link Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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Mine are still completely Dry.
_________________ Firefly rules. Can't stop the signal.
http://www.hulu.com/firefly
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado
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Link Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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here's another one for the Annals of Marquee LC chamber horror story's. Got a machine in for HD mod's + bellows and while I'm going over it I find the usual stuff, glycol leak corrosion (luckily while on ceiling), old 8000 HDM, etc. Then I look into the Red tube There is a section where the anodize either failed or there was an air-pocket in the casting or whatever but there's a 1/8" x 3/8" crater eaten into the metal by the Glycol.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY
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Link Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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Ouch!!!! Drags, I am trying some Epoxy VHT all weather paint right now. I painted one Housing with a tube in it already and one I need to populate it with a tube.
It been one week since i painted them so it should be ready for the glycol. I will try to get to it this week. Cross your fingers. If it works i'll let you know. Other wise you should have it anodized or tell your client you need to get a new housing from Tim.
The aluminum will get eaten if not protected, so if any other LC marquee guys see this in their tubes drain them and either try the epoxy paint or have them anodized.
Athanasios
_________________ Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado
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Link Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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Nashou66 wrote: | Other wise you should have it anodized or tell your client you need to get a new housing from Tim.
Athanasios | I'm going to just replace it , the paint would be great if it works but I don't have the time to wait on the results.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado
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Link Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:10 am Post subject: |
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crap, the other 2 tubes have it as well and green is pretty worn with a small raster. Nash check your PM
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY
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Link Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:24 am Post subject: |
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Hi Guys, I have 22 bellows left , This is after the ones I am saving for Andre in Spain. I will put another order for 100 in but it could be 4-6 weeks till they are made due to production line scheduling at Apple rubber. I'll let Kal know when the last 6 bellows are left so he can post it on the order page. I actually didn't think id sell out within a year.
And I didn't even get to do my own tubes yet beside my one i am testing the Epoxy paint in the housing and Thomas Tube with.
So thanks again for the Support and inspiration to get these Bellows we Marquee owners needed so desperately.
I'll order more with the next couple weeks.
Athanasios
_________________ Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado
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Link Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Nashou66 wrote: | . I actually didn't think id sell out within a year. |
told ya so:D
Nashou66 wrote: | I'll order more with the next couple weeks.Athanasios | MORE BELLOWS, MOR,MORE BELLOWSE BELLOWS
I just wanted to mention in this thread for people to make sure and check the potting material on the back of the tube before installing a new bellows. I just had a tube fail a leak test and it turns out the bellows wasn't leaking in the first place.
Stand the tube up the counter, take of the plastic covers and with a screwdriver, push down on the silicone potting around he edge of he tube. If it's all spongy and Glycol seeps up when you push it on it, then you will need to dig the old Gray potting material out. Then seperate the tube glass at the bottom from the Black Silicone RTV on the tube face, this is the seal that has failed. Clean off all the Silicone by scraping, then wipe down thoroughly with 'Acetone. Re-pot with fresh silicone and let cure for at least 72 hours.
If you live in a place with very low humidity, wrap the tube with a damp wash-cloth to promote curing.
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