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Replacement HV Tripler for Advent Videobeam 1000A
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Advent Videobeam




Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 37



PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:50 pm    Post subject: Replacement HV Tripler for Advent Videobeam 1000A Reply with quote


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I recently found a replacement tripler for the Advent 1000A Videobeam that is still made and inexpensive. The replacement part is :

NTE 530



Idea Thumbs Up

You will have to make the HV resisiter divider/bleeder seperately which is why one terminal short. NTE has about 325 of these in stock for around $25.

I got a cross reference from a Advent Service Bulletin supplement not comonly found in the Advent 1000A service manual.
It states a tripler:



VARO
MH1209 E01
80-000-120

Last set of number not important, just mentioned since in service bulletin. Calling NTE can verify this, you must talk to technical support at NTE for them to look up this old reference #. NTE530 can be bought through a distributor. PM me if you need this Advent 1000A tripler service bulletin info. This is replacement for the newest tripler part dated 1-1-78 in bullein.

Can SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME what HV actually measures coming out of a bad known tripler unit failing? 30 KV ideally should be measured out of tripler unit, my HV measres 15KV going out of HV lead, I
guess faulty. Can this be another HV section failure elsewhere?


Last edited by Advent Videobeam on Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17849
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The big question is: Is it really worth it?

You're the only Advent owner I know of in all the years of running this site and forum, and projectors that are considerably better like a cheap Sony 10xx series can be had for about $50. Maybe it's just me, but the last thing I'd put money into is a 30 year old projector when a newer one that looks miles better (and can do HD) can be had for just a few more dollars.

Just my 2 cents!

Kal

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perisoft




Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the one in his avatar is just freakin' awesome looking. I'd jump on one of those things just for the industrial design! And since I don't even use HDTV for my normal TV stuff, it'd make a bitchin' normal TV setup. Until my son went along and stuck something in the lenses. But that's another issue. Very Happy
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Advent Videobeam




Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 37



PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are at least two other users with these found through posts and PMs.

There's another person not registered w/ 3 advent 1000A alone. He has 1 for parts and 2 working units. I have one unit, one to restore and one for parts.

Many CRT PJ users eventually run into a parts or service issues.
Confused


This posts is just a resource to help people who own these historical machines to keep them operational. A positive input always welcome which is helpful.and useful
Thumbs Up



I know you have HD and that's great, fine and dandy kal. The general overall attitude isn't very positive for the PJ that started it all..

Look at walvisions web site. Those actual screen shots are analog, and yes these units work that good when set up right.


If anybodybody has an Advent 1000A and has a question, feel free to PM me. me or another user will get back to you.

There is some parts still floating around for these.
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perisoft




Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually read through the brochure thing on walvision. They did a really good job of it, and I really like their style - it's a lot like mine for our products. In particular where they say, 'It's not possible to hide it, so we designed it to look like what it is'. They were really careful to point out the potential negatives, and how weakness in sources could be a problem, etc...

Probably why they went out of business. Confused

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Advent Videobeam




Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 37



PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Advent had stiff competition from the japenese among others later. Advent was at a disadvantage to compete w/ major foreign companies. Henry Kloss financed videobeam to get it off the ground. Several articles on coporate history will state this. The only thing I read is that Advent should of changed is delay selling Videobeams to customers until service centers were setup in new areas in the early years.

Novabeam in the 80s, also a kloss creation had a more durable silver washable screen. That screen alone would of made videobeam units more durable and servicable if it was ever made or offered for the 1000A. Advent pretty much started the big screen business from Kloss's idea. How many years would production of CRT PJs been delayed without Kloss's visionary concept of home theatre???

Wink Idea
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator



Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Dad's Advent definitely wasn't an 80's machine... I'd say maybe '78 or '79 vintage... and it definitely didn't have the washable screen yet. It did have a much nicer-looking screen than the thin variety you usually see with the older Kloss machines.

I've looked and looked and I can not find a picture of that damn projector anywhere! I thought it was an Advent Videobeam, but none of the pictures I'm finding are the right model. My Dad's had an electronic tuner (dual-digit seven-segment red LED display) and a linear row of buttons for tuning, plus an ultrasonic remote... I could hear some of the button tones when I was a kid! Wink It had two smoked sliding plastic covers over the analog color and convergence controls. It had a nice walnut cover the sat over the whole thing coffee-table style. Pretty nice-looking machine for the 70's. Functional, too since you could literally use it as a table. Man, I wish I could find a picture or brochure. It must not have been a very common machine compared to some of the other Advent and Kloss machines.

SC
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17849
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No issues with owning one. Just wanted to point out that something that old may end up requiring a BUNCH of $25 parts over the next few years which would bring the cost up to the point of "why bother?" for most people.

It's not just HD either. Better projectors will do SD a lot better as well.

Kal

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donaldk




Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Posts: 308



PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
My Dad's Advent definitely wasn't an 80's machine... I'd say maybe '78 or '79 vintage... and it definitely didn't have the washable screen yet. It did have a much nicer-looking screen than the thin variety you usually see with the older Kloss machines.

I've looked and looked and I can not find a picture of that damn projector anywhere! I thought it was an Advent Videobeam, but none of the pictures I'm finding are the right model. My Dad's had an electronic tuner (dual-digit seven-segment red LED display) and a linear row of buttons for tuning, plus an ultrasonic remote... I could hear some of the button tones when I was a kid! Wink It had two smoked sliding plastic covers over the analog color and convergence controls. It had a nice walnut cover the sat over the whole thing coffee-table style. Pretty nice-looking machine for the 70's. Functional, too since you could literally use it as a table. Man, I wish I could find a picture or brochure. It must not have been a very common machine compared to some of the other Advent and Kloss machines.

SC


Are you sure it wasn't a Sony from the 50xx/72xx series?

Advent did come out the 700 wich was the ugly sibling to the 1000/1000A, as it was a tall veneer covered particle board case. Too tall for a coffee table.

However Advent also has some low horizontally orientatied RGB tube array models that became the shape of the Kloss (and ITT) Novabeams from the 1980s.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=8f89bd845b0f1ce45be2f282a5a9f81a&p=12876246#post12876246
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Advent1000Aguy




Joined: 27 Apr 2014
Posts: 1



PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry if this is considered necro-posting and frowned upon, but I came across this thread and got a little excited.

Firstly, I am an owner of two Advents, one for sure is a 1000 A chassis, and the other is another 1000 A model with a huge industrial boxy remote. I'd have to check the model # next time I have a chance.

I'm actually looking to part them out and I have a enough parts to practically rebuild these units 2 times over if need be. I even think I have a large scale screen that I'm not sure is advent, but was used in conjunction with this advent for years and looked great. I grew up around this thing, and my dad was a master at maintaining it. Suffice to say, I'm not trying to step on toes here, or offend any forum rules, but if anyone is interested in a few parts for these units, I might be able to help. Have a couple tubes unused as well.


If there's any interest, send me a quick PM, and we'll take it to e-mail. Thanks for the read, and I'm glad I found a few other advent owners!
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CasetheCorvetteman




Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6319
Location: Australia


PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mate the last thing you should worry about here is breaking rules or stepping on toes.

Anyone that has a problem with your post here is just being a d***head, but i doubt anyone will have any issues Wink

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jmetal88




Joined: 06 Apr 2017
Posts: 108



PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Replacement HV Tripler for Advent Videobeam 1000A Reply with quote

Advent Videobeam wrote:
You will have to make the HV resisiter divider/bleeder seperately which is why one terminal short.


I just picked up a Videobeam this past weekend that the seller says was removed from operation due to a failed tripler. I've found multiple sources for the NTE replacement tripler since finding this post, but I'm wondering what the OP means by the above statement? I've sent a message, but that username hasn't been active since 2010, so I'm not hopeful about it being read.

I don't have the service manual yet (I suppose I should really get one before I continue working on this) so I don't know whether said voltage divider is covered in it or not. This seems like an easy fix as long as you know what's supposed to go into it, though.
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jmetal88




Joined: 06 Apr 2017
Posts: 108



PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Service manual did have the info I needed.

FWIW, the resistor divider provides the 'Sense' output (shielded cable). It is 300 M-Ohm from the HV out and 100 k-Ohm to ground, so it should put out about 10V (unloaded) when things are working correctly.

EDIT: Well, giving it a second look-over, this isn't actually the service manual. This is the packet of addenda/replacement pages for the service manual (which explains why the schematic that's in there is for a 4-terminal tripler instead of the original 5-terminal). I'm not sure how to feel about this, because the seller clearly represented it as an actual service manual, but if it had been the actual service manual, it might not have had the information I needed. Hmm.
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jmetal88




Joined: 06 Apr 2017
Posts: 108



PostLink    Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can confirm that this information is correct and the replacement does work. However, you will need to do some high voltage wire splices and will need to pay careful attention to making smooth solder joints and using adequate insulation. I, unfortunately, seem to have messed up the insulation part the first time, and it worked until it came time for me to stuff the extra resistors inside the HV cage. Then it arced and took out at least two diodes on the new tripler (HV dropped from 30kV to 20kV) and I've been forced to order a second one.

I feel especially stupid about my insulation technique now that I've remembered I had a bottle of Super Corona Dope from a vintage TV repair project a few years ago... That might've been the extra assurance I needed.
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larryp




Joined: 24 Jan 2012
Posts: 252
Location: eden prairie mn


PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought a new model 710 6' videobeam projector way back when. Was a great machine for it's day.
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jmetal88




Joined: 06 Apr 2017
Posts: 108



PostLink    Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So... I've now tried and re-tried to construct the high voltage resistor divider four times and failed each time to keep it from arcing. However, I have discovered that I can make a splice in the 30kV wire, wrap it in several layers of electrical tape, and slide a piece of flexible PVC drain tube over the splice that extends at least an inch or two past each edge of the splice (so that it fits tight over the tape) and it won't arc to anything (provided you keep it out of direct contact with any metal).

I found this splicing method to be beneficial because I found nearly a pre-fab solution to the missing sense divider problem. You can actually replace the 300M-Ohm portion of the resistor with a DIV-12 or equivalent focus divider assembly (I used an RCA SK9106). It fits in the HV cage very nicely alongside the NTE530 tripler, is pre-potted, and rated up to 32kV. All I had to do was cut off and insulate the tap (at 50M-Ohms, or about 5kV), splice the 30kV line into the Videobeam at the same point I spliced in the tripler using the method outlined above, and solder a 100k resistor in series with the ground lead. Then you just get the sense voltage off the 100k resistor, and everything works out great!
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winny




Joined: 09 Oct 2013
Posts: 403
Location: Sweden

TV/Projector: BD808s, BG1209/2


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jmetal88 wrote:
So... I've now tried and re-tried to construct the high voltage resistor divider four times and failed each time to keep it from arcing. However, I have discovered that I can make a splice in the 30kV wire, wrap it in several layers of electrical tape, and slide a piece of flexible PVC drain tube over the splice that extends at least an inch or two past each edge of the splice (so that it fits tight over the tape) and it won't arc to anything (provided you keep it out of direct contact with any metal).


As an high voltage electronic engineer, this is a recepie for partial discharge, which is bad. You may not put enough hours on it to eat away the isolation or cause a small fire, but keep it in mind.

EDIT: I should add that I’m running my Barco with a similar mod. As long as you are aware why and knows how it should have been done, you are allowed to break the rules.

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jmetal88




Joined: 06 Apr 2017
Posts: 108



PostLink    Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

winny wrote:
jmetal88 wrote:
So... I've now tried and re-tried to construct the high voltage resistor divider four times and failed each time to keep it from arcing. However, I have discovered that I can make a splice in the 30kV wire, wrap it in several layers of electrical tape, and slide a piece of flexible PVC drain tube over the splice that extends at least an inch or two past each edge of the splice (so that it fits tight over the tape) and it won't arc to anything (provided you keep it out of direct contact with any metal).


As an high voltage electronic engineer, this is a recepie for partial discharge, which is bad. You may not put enough hours on it to eat away the isolation or cause a small fire, but keep it in mind.

EDIT: I should add that I’m running my Barco with a similar mod. As long as you are aware why and knows how it should have been done, you are allowed to break the rules.


Is there an alternative you would suggest that would allow me to make that connection and still have it serviceable? I'm apparent terrible with epoxy so potting it is probably out of the question...
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winny




Joined: 09 Oct 2013
Posts: 403
Location: Sweden

TV/Projector: BD808s, BG1209/2


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jmetal88 wrote:
Is there an alternative you would suggest that would allow me to make that connection and still have it serviceable? I'm apparent terrible with epoxy so potting it is probably out of the question...


It’s a really non-forgiving problem and you can have a life long career at solving the issue. Potting under vacuum with an epoxy or polyurethane with a very similar dielectric constant and volume restitivity or increase the apparent wire guage to ridiculous levels (look up triplex overhead line) are the only surefire methods. It is however only a long term effect so you may not use it long enough for it to become a problem.

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jmetal88




Joined: 06 Apr 2017
Posts: 108



PostLink    Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, I was looking at the service manual for this tonight and even though it works for some reason... I don't think the NTE530 is the actual correct replacement tripler for this, because some of the connections don't make sense. Notably, I happened to spot that the tripler in the manual doesn't have a ground connection, and when I followed the 'DC' connection back out I saw that it goes to a current sensor. That means, I think, that the tripler is supposed to ground through the 'DC' connection so that the current sensor can get a reading on the anode current. I currently have this hooked to the 'CTL' output on the 530, so it's really reading something related to the focus current, not the anode current.

Anyway, I wound up finding one document that has schematics of all of NTE's triplers (here: http://www.bentronics.com/download/manual/76/NTEHVD-2.pdf) and noticed on a few of the diagrams, the ground connection is actually labeled 'DC', which further supports my theory.

I am tempted to try the NTE535 tripler in my machine now, as it has a 300M-Ohm bleeder resistor that I could easily hook the sense circuit up to, and a separate focus tap. I am a little bit concerned that the focus tap may put out a higher voltage than what the current tripler puts out, so, do I want to risk it? Hmm.

(I am actually still having some problems with the NTE530 wanting to arc, by the way, which is the only reason I'm considering this. I thought I had pretty much gotten it solved, but I had to splice the HV lead back on to one of my old triplers to test out using the focus divider assembly as outlined above, and that splice started to arc after a number of uses... So I ordered another NTE530, which the seller wound up sending to me for free because he didn't realize it was old stock and he didn't trust it, and that one is actually occasionally arcing right out its own case. So I do need to take some sort of action here, haha).
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