I wish more could see my existing set up. Frankly, I think you'd be blown away--my wife was, my neighbors were, and frankly I was as I managed to piece together a set up that exceeded my expectations.
Just call for a "former CRT owner" meet
Dan
You are welcome to pop by and see it if you wish.
I've done the meet thing, but not opposed to doing it again. And I'm not sure that I would only be calling "former" CRT owners. The point is kind of to show the current CRT owners what you can get for under $1800 these days. _________________ Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 12330 Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56
Link Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:31 pm Post subject:
Person99 wrote:
So, with all things, it is a trade off. I used to be more of a perfectionist. Now, I really only care about enjoying the movie. My biggest disappointment with the CRT was the inability to do a really nice big CIH. I don't have a "critical screening room". I have a 2 row theater where friends and family gather to watch movies. I 9.5' wide CIH screen is really ALOT more fun that a 92" 16:9 screen.
In fact, some would say that the inability to do CIH without having to do blending of two CRTs is a non-starter for some as far as CRT is concerned. CIH is really nice. If I had room for CIH I probably would have already switched to digital. But alas, CIH won't happen for me unless I move which isn't going to happen any time soon as I wouldn't have a theater for many years (since I'd want to build something nice from scratch).
Link Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:12 pm Post subject:
kal wrote:
In fact, some would say that the inability to do CIH without having to do blending of two CRTs is a non-starter for some as far as CRT is concerned. CIH is really nice.
That's so true. If you haven't seen a CIH setup on a nice sized screen, you simply don't know what you're missing. I'd trade a little on/off for a nice 9 or 10' AT scope screen ANY day. It's just frickin' awesome. It's that last big bump that puts you over the edge from just recreating the theater experience at home to just smoking it. You just have to see it.
I'm in the same situation as you, Kal. I just don't have the room for a decent-sized scope screen. So, it's CRT for me for the foreseeable future!
Link Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:37 am Post subject:
I am having a hard time believing that any LCoS light engine has a native CR of >10K:1 without the implementation of modulating light beforehand or using a method of mechanically clamping down the light on the output. _________________ Trust no one. Absolutely no one. Advice of the board.
Joined: 23 Jan 2008 Posts: 38 Location: Austin, TX,
Link Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:59 pm Post subject:
WanMan wrote:
I am having a hard time believing that any LCoS light engine has a native CR of >10K:1 without the implementation of modulating light beforehand or using a method of mechanically clamping down the light on the output.
I guess you are going to have a really hard time believing some can do 50k:1 then
But there's no debate here when it comes to JVC's projectors. They clearly do not modulate the light source. It's the reason I went with then instead of Sony.
Link Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:03 pm Post subject:
ecrabb wrote:
kal wrote:
In fact, some would say that the inability to do CIH without having to do blending of two CRTs is a non-starter for some as far as CRT is concerned. CIH is really nice.
That's so true. If you haven't seen a CIH setup on a nice sized screen, you simply don't know what you're missing. I'd trade a little on/off for a nice 9 or 10' AT scope screen ANY day. It's just frickin' awesome. It's that last big bump that puts you over the edge from just recreating the theater experience at home to just smoking it. You just have to see it.
I'm in the same situation as you, Kal. I just don't have the room for a decent-sized scope screen. So, it's CRT for me for the foreseeable future!
Link Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:13 pm Post subject:
I'm talking about a 9'-wide scope screen. 9' or 10' would rock. Perfect for 2 rows of 3-4 seats. It would give me a scope screen not quite as tall as my 16x9 screen is now (which would be good), but running CIH the 16:9 material would be as tall, but not as wide... Which would be awesome.
I just love CIH... I love that big, epic, scope films are wider than your typical 1.85 or 1.78 comedies. Something like Transformers on a scope screen... Wow!!!
I don't have the room, though. To go wider, I'd have to go AT. I can't go AT because I don't have the depth. Like Kal, I'm pretty much stuck where I am until I move.
Link Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:32 pm Post subject:
ecrabb wrote:
I'm talking about a 9'-wide scope screen. 9' or 10' would rock. Perfect for 2 rows of 3-4 seats. It would give me a scope screen not quite as tall as my 16x9 screen is now (which would be good), but running CIH the 16:9 material would be as tall, but not as wide... Which would be awesome.
I just love CIH... I love that big, epic, scope films are wider than your typical 1.85 or 1.78 comedies. Something like Transformers on a scope screen... Wow!!!
I don't have the room, though. To go wider, I'd have to go AT. I can't go AT because I don't have the depth. Like Kal, I'm pretty much stuck where I am until I move.
SC
I get you. I too LOVE widescreen movies. My biggest goal is to watch Ben hur or Jurassic Park on a real widescreen setup.
CIH is the ONLY reason i'd consider switching to digital. If i could afford a blend it'd be a no brainer for me. A pair of 9's and a blend.
dude, you should really try to make William's meet. His setup is Sick! _________________ Follow my blog
www.thesinglebrother.com
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4901 Location: Flower Mound, TX
Link Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:35 pm Post subject:
WanMan wrote:
I am having a hard time believing that any LCoS light engine has a native CR of >10K:1 without the implementation of modulating light beforehand or using a method of mechanically clamping down the light on the output.
I was unaware that you had specialized knowledge and worked in this area.
However, you can do the research and verify the claims from independent measurements. They are actually quite close.
But, I'll help you out a bit, ever hear of polarization? _________________ Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4901 Location: Flower Mound, TX
Link Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:38 pm Post subject:
emdawgz1 wrote:
ecrabb wrote:
kal wrote:
In fact, some would say that the inability to do CIH without having to do blending of two CRTs is a non-starter for some as far as CRT is concerned. CIH is really nice.
That's so true. If you haven't seen a CIH setup on a nice sized screen, you simply don't know what you're missing. I'd trade a little on/off for a nice 9 or 10' AT scope screen ANY day. It's just frickin' awesome. It's that last big bump that puts you over the edge from just recreating the theater experience at home to just smoking it. You just have to see it.
I'm in the same situation as you, Kal. I just don't have the room for a decent-sized scope screen. So, it's CRT for me for the foreseeable future!
SC
What size screen you talkin' bout???
When I was setting up CIH, I played with different sizes and I thought 10' was ideal for a two row theater. That was what I wanted. But, after playing around to get the brightness and punch I wanted, I ended up with a 9.48' wide screen which I think is about the minimum I would want. Still has enough "presence" to "feel" big and it allows both the front and back row to be within recommended viewing angles (my front row is actually just under 20th century fox's ideal--i.e. just where I like it).
After this, there is no way I could go back to a smaller 16:9 screen. _________________ Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4901 Location: Flower Mound, TX
Link Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:41 pm Post subject:
emdawgz1 wrote:
ecrabb wrote:
I'm talking about a 9'-wide scope screen. 9' or 10' would rock. Perfect for 2 rows of 3-4 seats. It would give me a scope screen not quite as tall as my 16x9 screen is now (which would be good), but running CIH the 16:9 material would be as tall, but not as wide... Which would be awesome.
I just love CIH... I love that big, epic, scope films are wider than your typical 1.85 or 1.78 comedies. Something like Transformers on a scope screen... Wow!!!
I don't have the room, though. To go wider, I'd have to go AT. I can't go AT because I don't have the depth. Like Kal, I'm pretty much stuck where I am until I move.
SC
I get you. I too LOVE widescreen movies. My biggest goal is to watch Ben hur or Jurassic Park on a real widescreen setup.
CIH is the ONLY reason i'd consider switching to digital. If i could afford a blend it'd be a no brainer for me. A pair of 9's and a blend.
dude, you should really try to make William's meet. His setup is Sick!
Honestly, if you see some really top quality digital CIH set ups that cost about the same as doing a 9" blend, they both have merits, but the cost/benefit really goes to the digi. Not nearly the hassle to set up and maintain and on average the pictures are equal (each better in some areas).
About the only reason these days to do a blend is to try to say "look at me, my dick is bigger than yours."
BTW, it is unlikely you will ever see Ben Hur "true wide screen". No digi set up will do this, and I've never seen a blend set up where someone sacrificed performance on most scope images just to be able to say they do Ben Hur "right"--which would be very silly to do. _________________ Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
Link Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:05 pm Post subject:
Person99 wrote:
emdawgz1 wrote:
ecrabb wrote:
I'm talking about a 9'-wide scope screen. 9' or 10' would rock. Perfect for 2 rows of 3-4 seats. It would give me a scope screen not quite as tall as my 16x9 screen is now (which would be good), but running CIH the 16:9 material would be as tall, but not as wide... Which would be awesome.
I just love CIH... I love that big, epic, scope films are wider than your typical 1.85 or 1.78 comedies. Something like Transformers on a scope screen... Wow!!!
I don't have the room, though. To go wider, I'd have to go AT. I can't go AT because I don't have the depth. Like Kal, I'm pretty much stuck where I am until I move.
SC
I get you. I too LOVE widescreen movies. My biggest goal is to watch Ben hur or Jurassic Park on a real widescreen setup.
CIH is the ONLY reason i'd consider switching to digital. If i could afford a blend it'd be a no brainer for me. A pair of 9's and a blend.
dude, you should really try to make William's meet. His setup is Sick!
Honestly, if you see some really top quality digital CIH set ups that cost about the same as doing a 9" blend, they both have merits, but the cost/benefit really goes to the digi. Not nearly the hassle to set up and maintain and on average the pictures are equal (each better in some areas).
About the only reason these days to do a blend is to try to say "look at me, my dick is bigger than yours."
BTW, it is unlikely you will ever see Ben Hur "true wide screen". No digi set up will do this, and I've never seen a blend set up where someone sacrificed performance on most scope images just to be able to say they do Ben Hur "right"--which would be very silly to do.
I have seen a top notch CIH digital w/ an anamorphic lens. It was impressive, and cheaper than a blend. as far as size.... well i'm satisfied w/ what i'm packing and i dont worry about anyone else.
Ben Hur was shot in 2.76:1 on 70 mm film...DANG but it was usually projected @ 2.5:1. Even if its a bit compressed or cropped, BH in wide would be AWESOME! _________________ Follow my blog
www.thesinglebrother.com
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 3904 Location: Comedy Central
Link Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:49 pm Post subject:
Person99 wrote:
huggy wrote:
To me THE most important thing is image depth and brightness,I get the image depth I want only from a crt and well I cheated on the brightness by getting a 2 gain stewart screen.
But there is no free lunch! I hate the way a true 2.0 gain screen looks. So, I consider that to be too much of an image distraction.
It is interesting that you would talk about image depth. Basically, after many years with a CRT (last one was the same as Kal's) and now 1 year with a PJ doing an honest to god 647:1 ANSI CR, I've come to the following conclusions:
The CRT renders low APL scenes very believable and with as much depth as can reasonably be expected in low light situations (think the opening morning scene of Gladiator). The digi renders this much more flat and the best I can say is "passable" (but as I pointed out, better than any comercial theater presented that scene). Most watching the scene on my digi would not complain about it, but in a side by side comparison with a great CRT, the digi looks like sh*t.
Now, mid to high APL is a completely different story. Bright scenes by the very nature of our perception have the possiblity for greater depth. On these scenes, the digi just spanks my CRT. My current set up has a FAR greater image depth than the CRT had (I mean like blow you away depth). So much so that my wife even noticed it.
So, with all things, it is a trade off. I used to be more of a perfectionist. Now, I really only care about enjoying the movie. My biggest disappointment with the CRT was the inability to do a really nice big CIH. I don't have a "critical screening room". I have a 2 row theater where friends and family gather to watch movies. I 9.5' wide CIH screen is really ALOT more fun that a 92" 16:9 screen.
The CRT rarely had image aspects that were distracting (most often would be things like a CRT cannot render scenes in Ice Age and Happy Feet well). It was as WTS says, always involving.
As I've said before, if you want to sit around and pick out flaws, the CRT will "win" as it has less flaws. If you want to sit around and watch a movie and see how much you enjoy it, all of my friends and family pick the current set up--and that is all that matters to me. I find watching movies on the new set up overall more enjoyable. I'd say I enjoy it more than the CRT the vast majority of the time but spot very mildly distracting flaws <2% of the time. Most people never see these flaws and I personally can live with them for the overall experience.
Frankly, the only thing that ticks me off now is misinformation on either side. No body cares much about CRTs anymore, so the misinformation about them is pretty minimal. But, there is much misinformation about digitals among the few remaining CRT die hards. It is sad because it may mislead someone that would have been perfectly happy with a digital or ecstatic with a CIH set up and ends up pretty unhappy trying to set the beast up.
But, I don't care what display chain anyone uses and I'm not trying to sell you anything. I'm only offering one man's opinion and it is worth about as much as any opinion. ;-P And if you think I'm a "CRT hater", search for my AVS posts from 4+ years ago.
Are you including the Hi Power? Outside of a Torus, that is the only other gain screen I would consider.
I do agree with you that it is about just enjoying the experience. Like Walter and CRT Dave (does that make you davep2?), I still love the look of CRT. If I had to go digital though, I wouldn't cry.
I am curious, what is your price point to upgrade? Would you get say a used JVC RS2 for around $2k?
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4901 Location: Flower Mound, TX
Link Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:03 pm Post subject:
Spanky Ham wrote:
Are you including the Hi Power? Outside of a Torus, that is the only other gain screen I would consider.
I don't like the look of screens over about a 1.3 gain--expetially not in theaters that seat 6 or more (like my theater). Torus looks good--but again in a very narrow viewing cone--and most people don't want a fan operated screen or the hassle of it.
Spanky Ham wrote:
I am curious, what is your price point to upgrade? Would you get say a used JVC RS2 for around $2k?
Well, what I set up was a stop gap ("let see what I can do in CIH for under $2500"). The idea was to sell our house and probably sell the equipment with it. The goal was always to get a better PJ at the new house.
Then the housing market went splat. Since Texas didn't get hit as hard, I think it will bounce back in a year or so, so we decided to wait until then. So, I probably won't be in the PJ market until then.
I would not mind an upgrade, but I can wait. The current PJ really did exceed my expectations--I did good on my research if I must say so myself . I dinked with the color wheel index in the service menu and have almost completly eliminated dithering and banding as well as accessing its CMS in the service menu to get colors more accurate then a color filtered CRT. Between it and my Lumagen, the image is actually pretty good.
We watch alot of widescreen movies in the theater, since I have CIH, downscaling the 817 active lines to 720 in the Lumagen is not a significant loss of information. And as you know, horizontal resolution is not as important to the human eye (which is why a CRT which can't do 1920 still looks good and also why many early plasmas spent their money on vertical resolution not horizontal--for instance, the 1024x1024 plasmas). So, widescreen looks pretty good on my set up. The only think I would like is a bit more "robust" low APL image--but I'm still better than a commercial theater.
3 guys in my neighborhood all have 1080p LCDs (Panny, Epson, and Mitsu). Every single one of them thought my 720p PJ was 1080p (because overall image quality is better than there's) even on 16:9 content.
As for the JVC, I thought that that was what I was going to go to. But, I have to admit, after living with this PJ for a year, I really like the "pop" of my 647:1 ANSI CR. I'm not sure I'm ready to sacrifice so much ANSI CR for on/off at this point. I think things like the Pixar movies look much better on my PJ than an RS20 (I know not everyone will agree), but I guess Guy was right--even though I used to fight against ANSI for on/off, ANSI CR is addictive!
I also found out that color wheels don't bother me if the stay in sync to the refresh and are fast. I even see far fewer rainbows that I used to, so I think your brain gets used to putting together images (sort of the way some people see a 3D movie totally fine from the beginning while others brains don't want to be "tricked"). I guess my brain got used to being "tricked" by flashed of R, G, and B.
So, given that, I have my sights set on one of the good 1080p DLPs now, but I'll definately revist that when the time comes. _________________ Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4901 Location: Flower Mound, TX
Link Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:08 pm Post subject:
emdawgz1 wrote:
I have seen a top notch CIH digital w/ an anamorphic lens. It was impressive, and cheaper than a blend. as far as size.... well i'm satisfied w/ what i'm packing and i dont worry about anyone else.
Which PJ and which lens? A top quality one is going to cost about as much or more than a blend--which one did you see? For instance, a really good cylindrcal anamorphic lens costs as much or more than one 9"!
emdawgz1 wrote:
Ben Hur was shot in 2.76:1 on 70 mm film...DANG but it was usually projected @ 2.5:1. Even if its a bit compressed or cropped, BH in wide would be AWESOME!
Yes, but my whole point is a digital CIH set up is not "CIH" it is really "dual aspect", 16:9 and 2.37:1. So, Ben Hur will still have small black bars on a digi CIH set up.
My other point was most people don't set up a CRT CIH for a 2.5 or greater AR. They typically do 2.35:1 or 2.39:1 to maximize the quality on 99.9% of all scope content. Few will trade off resolution and 99.9% of their scope movie watching, just so they can have Ben Hur and a few others the "correct" way. _________________ Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
Link Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:34 pm Post subject:
I stopped by a local shop on Saturday and looked at the Sony VW-60.
They were showing the BR version of Kung Fu Panda. This was great for me because i had just saw it 2 nights before(for the first time) on my 32 in CRT tv on HBO HD.
When i came in the shop it was playing on a 42 panny Plasma... looking good. So the guy switched it to the Sony. 106 in screen Studiotek 130. My first reaction was "God this thing is pushed to Blue" The colour was off. The sales guy said the pj hadn't been calibrated. No processing, except the internal pj's processor. It had a lot of detail, it was bright, we didnt turn the lights all the way down so it had ambient light in room. I could easily see living with it. It was really quiet, shadow detail was pretty good.
However. It's 6k. Plus an anamorphic lens, another 7k. A decent processor 2k and a screen.....
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4901 Location: Flower Mound, TX
Link Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:58 pm Post subject:
emdawgz1 wrote:
I stopped by a local shop on Saturday and looked at the Sony VW-60.
DUDE!!!! Local shops are knowing for sucking! They don't calibrate for sh*t and all that. I first saw the RS1 in a local "high end home theater shop" and was completely unimpressed. Then I saw one properly set up in someone's home theater. Difference was night and day!
I wouldn't call the VW-60 one of the best out there either.
So, the bottom line is, you have NOT seen a high end digital set up, correct?
Go see Art's. He opted for brightness and big big screen over on/off CR but it ought to impress you. _________________ Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
Link Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:33 pm Post subject:
Person99 wrote:
emdawgz1 wrote:
I stopped by a local shop on Saturday and looked at the Sony VW-60.
DUDE!!!! Local shops are knowing for sucking! They don't calibrate for sh*t and all that. I first saw the RS1 in a local "high end home theater shop" and was completely unimpressed. Then I saw one properly set up in someone's home theater. Difference was night and day!
I wouldn't call the VW-60 one of the best out there either.
So, the bottom line is, you have NOT seen a high end digital set up, correct?
Go see Art's. He opted for brightness and big big screen over on/off CR but it ought to impress you.
Well this is one of the better spots in the region and they have 2 VERY respectable setups (a qualia 009 and a VW200 with an ana lens) So the calibration issue was a matter of timing. I dont like JVC product . However I'm willing to hop in the car and road trip it to Art's.... hope he dont mind! _________________ Follow my blog
www.thesinglebrother.com
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 12330 Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56
Link Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:39 pm Post subject:
emdawgz1 wrote:
My first reaction was "God this thing is pushed to Blue" The colour was off. The sales guy said the pj hadn't been calibrated.
I don't know any local shops (even the super high end ones) that calibrate. The projectors sit in there for years uncalibrated because they don't want to spend the money because 99% of people who go in couldn't care less.
Whenever I mention that the greyscale is horribly off they always respond "it hasn't been calibrated yet - the ISF guy is too busy". I always mention that it's actually really easy to do and costs very little to buy the equipment. They just don't seem to care or know much of anything.
I don't bother going into stores to see projectors set up as I've yet to see one (in the last 20 years) that was properly set up.*
I'm always excited however to see projectors running in people's home that know what they're doing as I know they'll actually be set up right. In the stores, well, all I expect is that they took it out of the box and plugged it in, and then played with the focus.
Kal
*Correction: I did see a few set up properly in a commercial location but they were not in a showroom: At the Montreal hi-fi expo in the late 90's I saw a 9" Runco CRT projector (rebadged Barco 1209s) running with about $1/2M of audio equipment. Phenominal. Also saw a Vision 1 (rebadged Marquee 9500LC) playing HD content off a hard drive before HD was available in the home from satellite/cable providers. I remember the line-up to get into that room was long... _________________ My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
Link Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:43 pm Post subject:
kal wrote:
emdawgz1 wrote:
My first reaction was "God this thing is pushed to Blue" The colour was off. The sales guy said the pj hadn't been calibrated.
I don't know any local shops (even the super high end ones) that calibrate. The projectors sit in there for years uncalibrated because they don't want to spend the money because 99% of people who go in couldn't care less.
Whenever I mention that the greyscale is horribly off they always respond "it hasn't been calibrated yet - the ISF guy is too busy". I always mention that it's actually really easy to do and costs very little to buy the equipment. They just don't seem to care or know much of anything.
I don't bother going into stores to see projectors set up as I've yet to see one (in the last 20 years) that was properly set up.*
I'm always excited however to see projectors running in people's home that know what they're doing as I know they'll actually be set up right. In the stores, well, all I expect is that they took it out of the box and plugged it in, and then played with the focus.
Kal
*Correction: I did see a few set up properly in a commercial location but they were not in a showroom: At the Montreal hi-fi expo in the late 90's I saw a 9" Runco CRT projector (rebadged Barco 1209s) running with about $1/2M of audio equipment. Phenominal. Also saw a Vision 1 (rebadged Marquee 9500LC) playing HD content off a hard drive before HD was available in the home from satellite/cable providers. I remember the line-up to get into that room was long...
The place i'm talking about just replaced their Vision 1 with the VW-200. They do calibrate. When i was in the biz we also did. It was a big selling point. _________________ Follow my blog
www.thesinglebrother.com
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You can download files in this forum
Forum FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Photo Albums
Register
Profile
Private Messages
Log in
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Link
