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ecrabb
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 12482
Location: Iowa
TV/Projector: JVC RS45
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 Link Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| WanMan wrote: | | Why would it matter if the motion was from a game or not? Sounds more like the relative pan speed than the source. |
Yes and no, Wan. Games generally stay really sharp - even when you pan. If you're console-gaming, then the action is generated at 60hz.
Compare that to a film... Rarely is fast camera motion sharp - it usually has a significant amount of exposure-time induced motion blur, and the source is 24hz.
What we're talking about here is motion resolution. Most digital sets - even something with a slower response time like LCoS or LCD will faithfully display a film source because the motion resolution is (relatively) low. A first-person shooter can have very high motion resolution, most noticeably fast panning - turning your "head". That's what some displays simply will not faithfully reproduce. CRT and DLP are both better than LCD or LCoS in this regard.
SC
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 9668
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| Link Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm, I do remember the first time I connected an Infocus X1 to a PC. My Windows desktop was nothing but a black void. Once i started moving the white mouse cursor I could easily see rainbows. Too bad i wasn't stoned to enjoy it. I then tried playing a FPS game and that just made me sick to my stomach.
I've had almost no experience with sources for LCoS products, but I would think to suggest DLP my be hit or miss unless they all now operate with the same number of segments and run at the same RPM.
Doesn't LCD also exhibit horizontal panning artifacts in which the pixels appear to merge into lines? Gosh, I've really not been in front of a digital in a long time.
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ecrabb
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 12482
Location: Iowa
TV/Projector: JVC RS45
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| Link Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| WanMan wrote: | | Hmm, I do remember the first time I connected an Infocus X1 to a PC. My Windows desktop was nothing but a black void. Once i started moving the white mouse cursor I could easily see rainbows. Too bad i wasn't stoned to enjoy it. I then tried playing a FPS game and that just made me sick to my stomach. |
The X1 used a 4-segment 2x color wheel. The wheel in that machine was a RGBW - meaning it had a white segment for better brightness, but it also washed out the color. That machine was the pinnacle of entry-level DLP technology back around the time of the 9/11 terrorist attacks... Meaning, a LONG time ago. I absolutely hated digital back then - at any price. It all sucked, IMHO. Projectors like the X1 looked like complete crap.
| WanMan wrote: | | I've had almost no experience with sources for LCoS products, but I would think to suggest DLP my be hit or miss unless they all now operate with the same number of segments and run at the same RPM. |
Since the other poster referred to a current generation LCoS (SXRD) product, I was also referring to the latest single-chip DLP technology, which would be a six-segment 4x wheel. So, compared to something like the old X1, you've got double the segments and twice the color-wheel spin, or an effective "flicker rate" of 4x.
| WanMan wrote: | | Doesn't LCD also exhibit horizontal panning artifacts in which the pixels appear to merge into lines? Gosh, I've really not been in front of a digital in a long time. |
I think that's more older LCD machines. Newer machines exhibit motion blur more along the lines of LCoS/SXRD.
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Sunstone
Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 44
Location: Rockledge Fl.
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| Link Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:18 am Post subject: |
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tried a dlp a few years ago benq 8720 had 6x color wheel , pans where great but dlp gives me headaches. i'm force to use crt,
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ecrabb
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 12482
Location: Iowa
TV/Projector: JVC RS45
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| Link Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:12 am Post subject: |
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I don't like DLP, either. Hell, I'm not even a big fan of 3-chip DLP... I just think it looks too "digital". Even the mega-buck dCinema DLP projectors have a wonky "digital" look that I'm not fond of. Full fades to black with low-IRE material look especially bad. DLP would be my last choice for a digital, but if you need decent temporal/motion resolution, DLP is the only digital option.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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| Link Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| Sunstone wrote: | | tried a dlp a few years ago benq 8720 had 6x color wheel , pans where great but dlp gives me headaches. i'm force to use crt, |
Really? I'm sorry you've been strong-armed into CRT. If it makes you feel better you could try LCD or LCoS and not be force into CRT. 
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Sunstone
Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 44
Location: Rockledge Fl.
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| Link Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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if you read my post earlier ,i tried a hw15 and it has motion blurr in games .and who would rather not have a 20 pound projector that takes way less energy? so crt is still the only option for me .
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ecrabb
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 12482
Location: Iowa
TV/Projector: JVC RS45
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| Link Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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Sunstone - No explanation necessary... He was just yankin' your chain because you said "forced", as in strong-armed, as in somebody MADE you go to CRT.
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Sunstone
Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 44
Location: Rockledge Fl.
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| Link Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:24 am Post subject: |
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thanks no problem. but my crt is my favorite toy just wish it took alot less energy .my electric bill is !!!!!lol
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 18055
Location: Langley, BC
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| Link Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| Sunstone wrote: | | if you read my post earlier ,i tried a hw15 and it has motion blurr in games .and who would rather not have a 20 pound projector that takes way less energy? so crt is still the only option for me . |
Go check the current draw of your typical digital. It draws more than you think. You'll never see the difference in your electrical bill, trust me.
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AnalogRocks
Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 20966
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Link Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:24 am Post subject: |
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The biggest power problem with digital is most people went from 20", 27" 32" and 34" to 42" 50" 55" and 65". Like Curt says the difference is negligible.
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Sunstone
Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 44
Location: Rockledge Fl.
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| Link Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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the hw15 drew 300 watts sent it back after one day lol, my first crt was 500 watts bg808s,g70 750 watts , waiting on my g90 and it draws 1050 watts wow. i run my projector about 4 to 5 hours a day and on weekends it can be on more than 12
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AnalogRocks
Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 20966
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Link Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:33 am Post subject: |
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| Sunstone wrote: | | the hw15 drew 300 watts sent it back after one day lol, my first crt was 500 watts bg808s,g70 750 watts , waiting on my g90 and it draws 1050 watts wow. i run my projector about 4 to 5 hours a day and on weekends it can be on more than 12 |
Are those actual measured figures or are you just going by what's on the power ratings label?
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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| Link Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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AR, how would you measure the power? Its been a long time since I had any metering equipment, although I do have one of those fandangled Kill-A-Watt thingies.
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VideoGrabber
Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 861
Location: Michigan
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| Link Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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> how would you measure the power? ...I do have one of those fandangled Kill-A-Watt thingies. <
Umm, plug the Kill-A-Watt into the wall, and the PJ into the KAW? Press the button to read out Watts. It's not exactly rocket science. 
It will vary based on the brightness of the scene you're projecting. Leave it on while you watch a movie, then check the kilowatt-hours. Multiply that by your local electric rate to see how much it cost you.
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ecrabb
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 12482
Location: Iowa
TV/Projector: JVC RS45
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| Link Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Sunstone wrote: | | the hw15 drew 300 watts sent it back after one day lol, my first crt was 500 watts bg808s,g70 750 watts , waiting on my g90 and it draws 1050 watts wow. i run my projector about 4 to 5 hours a day and on weekends it can be on more than 12 |
OK, let's use those numbers. Even the G90 at 1050w (That's actually max - not nominal/typical - as in all-white screen, max contrast)... Anyway, we're talking approx. 196 hours or 206kwH. At my local rates, that's $16.48/mo. A G70 would be $11.77, and the HW15 would be about $4.70. But, like I said, the CRT numbers you quoted are max, not typical. Actual typical consumption on normal program material, games, etc. would probably be half to two-thirds of max.
In the context of most people's overall utility bill and power consumption, a projector is usually a pretty small percentage.
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dturco
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 3747
Location: Eastern Shore Maryland
TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner
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| Link Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Now if you want to talk about BTU's well.... CRT wins, or loses, handily. It depends on the question.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 9668
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| Link Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| VideoGrabber wrote: | > how would you measure the power? ...I do have one of those fandangled Kill-A-Watt thingies. <
Umm, plug the Kill-A-Watt into the wall, and the PJ into the KAW? Press the button to read out Watts. It's not exactly rocket science.
It will vary based on the brightness of the scene you're projecting. Leave it on while you watch a movie, then check the kilowatt-hours. Multiply that by your local electric rate to see how much it cost you. |
I'm just wondering about trusting the KAW device itself.
BTW, I am presently without an active CRT projectors. I need to find how to safely mount the XG1351 in the basement (all dry-walled up), and then get someone over here to calibrate it. The 6PG I had upstairs has been disconnected for about a year now.
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Sunstone
Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 44
Location: Rockledge Fl.
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| Link Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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thanks for the numbers , i wonder whats eating all my power than? ac and dryer
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ecrabb
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 12482
Location: Iowa
TV/Projector: JVC RS45
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| Link Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Sunstone wrote: | | thanks for the numbers , i wonder whats eating all my power than? ac and dryer |
Exactly. Electric heat or AC are the really big suckers... Heavy draw and lots of hours. I can easily tack on $100/mo to my electric bill during the hot part of the summer.
Electric hot water heater is another biggie. Clothes dryers are a big draw too, but unless you're doing laundry every day, it shouldn't impact you too badly... I have a family of four - we do laundry every day - multiple loads - so, that adds up. Refrigerators and ranges can tack on, too. Even a good fridge will be $10-15/mo. to run in most places. Lights can be surprising suckers, too if you leave many on for long periods.
Beyond heat, AC, hot water, and clothes dryer, it's usually just a whole bunch of little things all put together... The "$5 here/$10 there" thing.
You could be paying a little more than I do, too - so the numbers could be off a little.
SC
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