CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[atotaldoofus]

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Also, just to make sure we;'re talking about the same thing:
when I speak of tweaking the raster but not knowing which buttons/functions do this, I'm talking about the part of the process where I have the lenses off and am looking directly at the tubes to try to get as much of them used as possible.

Are you guys still sure that is done with LIN and SIZE functions? Reading the manual it really seems like that's done with the screen, through projection...

[Bucketfoot]

[atotaldoofus]

Hi,

So I've received two different directions when it comes to which control is used to move the raster on the tube face. Unless someone new pipes in to clarify which is the right one I guess I'll just experiment and hope for the best. I'm still not really clear on how to get that criss-cross pattern that is in all the guides - I know it's a test pattern, and I see how to get to it, but I don't know how to keep it onscreen while I'm adjusting the stuff on the raster.

Lots of other questions too still outstanding. I guess I'll go try asking AVS.

Thanks again, bye for now!

[jkruger]

You need to slow down and pay attention. You say you have read the manuals yet you ask questions that are in the manuals. I suggest you reread everything and LEARN IT before doing anything else.

[atotaldoofus]

It seems like a lot of people are just assuming that what I'm asking in the manuals just on the basis of a quick glance at my post rather than a real read of it. I've already spent two posts explaining how my questions aren't covered in the manual and how, if they are, they are covered in a manner so vague that I have no idea what they're trying to tell me.

If you don't feel like being helpful, that's fine, nobody here owes me any of their time - but it seems silly to waste your time by posting a reply WITHOUT being helpful.

It's really getting pretty ridiculous at this point. I don't think it's possible for people who share your sentiment to have actually read my questions.

I don't get why anyone would tell me to re-re-re-re-read things I obviously don't understand instead of just helping me ot understand them. As you already saw, the manual says NOTHING about those various wires - if you hadn't told me about the screw and the clips, I'd have NOTHING to go on.

And plenty of other questions still stand which definitely aren't covered in the manual at all. Nobody seems to feel inclined to helping out with those which makes even LESS sense if you sincerely believe that the manual has the answers to my OTHER questions.

[jkruger]

Granted, some of your questions are not covered in the factory manuals. You might find more answers to different topics by using the search feature here. There is a lot of information here that you have not found yet. You have one of the best projectors for a beginner to start with and seem to have better than average intelligence. I'm only suggesting that you slow down and absorb the info available here.

[ecrabb]

[jkruger]

SC, Thanks for stepping in. I'm going to bed. 5:00am comes too soon for an old man like me.

[ecrabb]

No prob! I'm still at work, and HATING the project I'm working right now. Diversions like this slow me down, but also keep me from opening a vein or walking into traffic to make it all stop.

5am... That's probably what time I'll be GOING to bed this morning. I'm glad I have a job, but I'm really hating it right now.

SC

[atotaldoofus]

Thanks for your reply, that particular thing is making a little more sense now.
Anyway, it's silly to stay here and try to convince you that yes I've done searching and the problem is that I get upwards of 20 pages of links to threads about wide-ranging subjects, each with multiple pages, and that the few I've managed to work through completely ended-up mentioning my search words usually in an indirect fashion.

Amidst the hundreds and hundreds I found two that were kind of helpful: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=572&highlight=1272+raster
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5430

But they still don't make a lot of sense to me since I don't know what menu/mode I have to be BEFORE I do them and then how I close them down/save them away once I've done what they instruct.

That's the most I've been able to get out of an hour or two of searching and reading threads that seem almost random in their relation to any of the terms I use in my search. It's definitely faster by far to just ask my questions here - that is, until you factor in the protracted length of time it takes for people to stop telling me to read something I've read and don't understand and then finally, after I prod them enough, get around to typing out the one-or-two lines of information that they could've typed at any time previously, thereby wasting further hours of EVERYONE's time because they were trying to teach me a lesson about reading instead of just trying to help me with this problem so I can understand CRTs better and get mine working.
It's yet another ridiculous example of people putting their peculiar morality above pragmatic progress; we've got lots of trouble in the world because most people seem to be on that kick.

Anyway, forget about it all, this is pretty useless. Nevertheless, thanks for what useful information you did choose to impart, it has gotten me a little further along.

[ecrabb]

It's pretty damn rare that I ever see anybody requesting help be so critical at the same time. I haven't counted, but you must have written at least twice as many sentences bitching about people asking you to read as people have actually written telling you to read. Have you considered that perhaps your communications aren't as clear as you believe them to be?

Here's the deal, if you can stop whining about people asking you to read long enough to actually ask about whatever it is you still don't understand, I'd be glad to help. If you're going to lecture us on "morality above pragmatic progress", then good luck over at AVS and reading the manual.

Now, I'll try one more time. I'm not sure what you're unclear on, but I'll guess. I thought the manual was fairly straightforward on getting into service mode, on adjusting registration controls, and on toggling test patterns. You hold the "TEST" key down for 5-6 seconds, and the 1272 should ask if you want to enter service menu mode. Press the "UP" key - I think it is - to confirm. Once you're in service mode, you can pretty much use the process in the manual for centering the raster (CENT and ZONE 1 or 0 - can't remember - they do the same thing), SIZE to adjust raster size, LIN to adjust linearity, and so on. It's a step-by-step process, and should be done in order. Once you're finished, press the "MEMORY" key once to save to the current memory location (with no external input - which is how you should be doing setup - that would be the 480p location). If you press and hold the memory key for a second or two, you should get a prompt along the lines of "SAVE TO ALL MEMORIES" or along those lines... That will save the geometry and convergence settings to all memory locations. Usually, you'd do that after you were completely finished with geometry and convergence. Then, you can input a signal, and do further adjustments specific to that signal, and use the single "MEMORY" press to save only to that memory location.

As for your other questions...

[ecrabb]

Here's a thread with a post I wrote awhile back that outlines the process. That might help, too.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10639

The OP never even came back. Hopefully, you get some use out of that post.

SC

[atotaldoofus]

I'm at the point now where I am watching what I do on the raster and understand resetting data and saving data, but the factory default text image on the tube is heavily skewed so that the bottom looks much smaller than the top. Manipulating the "skew" controls alone cannot correct this. I can proceed by making the one "normal" sized edge at top as long as it can be, and judging where the vertical edges will go based upon where they connect to that line, but I can't get a total idea of the extent to which the raster will cover the tube face at this point.

Is is dangerous to proceed like that, or can I go on, get the lenses back on now, and then handle what comes by examining the projection and using the other controls, as you instructed in your last post? I'd just assume that was okay to do except in all the pictures I find online in guides detailing this part of the procedure, all of their test patterns appear even, whereas mine is not.

[ecrabb]

Ah, that's keystone - KEY... That corrects for the projector being so far off-center vertically from the screen (either on the floor or ceiling). If the image were square on the tube face, it would be a big trapezoid on the screen, unless the projector were perfectly centered on the screen (usually, that would be about 4' off the floor - which, doesn't exactly work for most people.)

Here's the deal... The controls sort of work in pairs... SIZE and LIN sort of work together, KEY and SKEW sort of work together, and PIN and BOW sort of work together. Each control complements the other to correct the geometry.

So, no - you can proceed. As long as the active image area - in your case the test patterns - don't extend off the tube face for any significant length of time, you'll be OK.

You know, I think the whole "take the lenses off and maximize the rasters" thing is just confusing you right now. Ideally, it's the best way to set up a projector to maximize resolution and tube longevity... But, right now, while you're still just learning the controls and how it all works, I think it's a bunch of mental overhead you don't need.

For now, you might just want to set the machine up according to the manual. You'll want to put the machine about where the manual says it should be, but probably about a foot or so closer - maybe less. That should get you in the ballpark. I'll have to look to be sure, but for reference, I think my 12xx's throw from screen to green lens was about 10'. So, it's about a 1.2x relationship between screen width and throw... i.e., the projector should be ~120" from a 96" or 100" wide screen.

SC

[atotaldoofus]

Hi,

Thanks again!

Yeah, it is confusing having the lenses off - but I Really wanted to get a look at the tubes to see how I could work with/around the existing wear patterns.

In any case, luckily, none of them SEEM so severe that they'd cause SIGNIFICANT trouble if I just used the whole tubeface.

My projector is mounted within five inches of the recommended distance, give or take.

Also, the projector itself is about even with the very bottom of the projected image at any range - but it seems kind of like the lenses are already angled up just slightly anyway.

So, just to make sure I understand this right - SIZE and ZONE are pretty much all I need to worry about now, so long as I'm not skirting the edge of the tube face. Leaving myself about an eighth of an inch of room in all directions around the raster on the tubeface, I should be safe putting the lenses back on now and then taking care of further convergence/focusing on the final projection surface?

If so, that's awesome news - I kept going through all these pages in the manual with so many different procedures, I was worried that this project was going to be something of the same magnitude as rebuilding a classic car or something.

Okay, thanks for your patience, I just don't get a lot about tech stuff right away. I think all the pieces are starting to fall into place now that I'm understanding the connections between different functions.

It was just super-confusing at first because I read the CRT Primer and the Definitive Setup Guide - and then when I got into the manual, there were so few obvious links between it and the guides I had just read. The guides are kind of abstracted from the precise procedure that I'm expected to go through, and also they're written in "everyman" talk, as opposed to the technical jargon in the manual -- that's what threw me for a loop.

I've gone ahead and switched on the button for "DYNAMIC PIC" because the manual says it enables "high quality contrast." I like quality, so....! We'll see what happens.

Sorry for being kind of defensive, but projects frazzle me sometimes, and I was starting to worry that I was never going to figure this thing out - which was a really bif downer because CRT projectors seem so cool to me!

I can't afford all these plasma and LCD and laser TV's and all that - and then here's CRT which looks better and is cheaper by a ton! I just didn't want to miss out on that.

Okay, sincerely: thank you guys! I think my brain's finally starting to catch up to this stuff. I just hope that I can get it setup a wee bit sharper than the last owner did!

I'll go buy some blackout cloth today or tomorrow!

[atotaldoofus]

Hi!

Okay, thanks again!

I've gotten a bit further now, but I'm hung up on one problem that's preventing me from getting my raster/tubeface ready-enough that the lenses can be put back on.

There seems to be a HUGE segment of black space, both above, below, and on the left side, that, when I try to extend the raster into, it just disappears. So It's like - I have extra room on the tube face, but when I try to put the raster there, it just gets sucked "under" the black, so that the test pattern, instead of moving into that new area, just disappears as it moves into it.

Weird, huh?

I tried resetting "BLKG" to Factory Defaults, but that only had an effect for the bottom section - the top and left still refuse to be opened up. In fact, clicking BLKG, then trying to increase its size with the arrow buttons, only input for increasing the bottom seems to be accepted - any other button apart from the one that opens it received the "not applicable!" message.

Hmm....... I don't know what the heck is up here!

[imprez25]

For a solid tutorial of how to set up a crt projector I recommend getting Graham Johnson's Setup video. It helps clarify a lot of vocabulary while watching a great crt tech setup a projector that is similar to your 1272 ( a 1292). Before I bought my 1272 I had never even seen a crt projector in person, so I was truly clueless, but I spent the money on Graham's setup disc and it combined with this forum helped me to the point where I can set my 1251 (Yes I down graded projectors due to worn tubes on the 1272 to a virtually new 1251q for only $50) from full factory 128 default in about 30 minutes. The setup dvd is worth the money.

Also to reinforce a previous comment, be prepared to do several setups. You will not get it 100% the first time out. CRT's have a learning curve and it will take you at least 5-10 setups to get to a point where you won't feel it necessary to make convergence corrections mid movie. But rest assured that a time will come when you wont need to make corrections... you'll just feel like you should be making them.

[atotaldoofus]

Hi Imprez! Thanks! Yeah, I saw the link for that video - and I'm gonna get it!

I was just hoping to at least get the raster's the right size on the tubeface so that I could get the lenses back on, for now. Once I get past that point, I'll buy that video, take a break to study it, then see what I can do.

Forget all my other questions, really - I just want to get the raster sorted out! But now I'm having trouble because, as I said, I just can't get it to scale properly cuz it seems like half the tubeface is determined to be black.

[ecrabb]

Are you seeing the blanking lines move when you use the BLKG control? Can you see the numbers? Are you using the up/down buttons regardless of which side's blanking you're adjusting? I can't remember if they all go to zero, or if some go to zero and some to 255, but I believe they should all go to MIN when the blanking is fully retracted.

Also, don't worry too much about vertical size. Unless you were going to project a square image, you'll only be using about half the vertical height of the tubes, anyway. The image should be centered, but you'll definitely have large black bars at the top and bottom for a 16:9 screen, and smaller bars for a 4x3.

Don't worry about the height, anyway. Just make sure the crosshatch is centered, and that it's not too close to the sides anywhere - 1/4" is good. Put the lenses back on and play around. It'll start making more sense once you see the projected image.

SC

[ecrabb]

Oh, and another vote for Graham's DVD... It's excellent for sure.

SC