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All Things Paint
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WanMan




Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10273



PostLink    Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 12:41 pm    Post subject: All Things Paint Reply with quote


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Ok, so I am getting ready to solicit some paint contractors for the basement. The idea, here, is total professionalism. The hired contractors must protect the floor, use materials I find acceptable (and maybe supplied), and get the job done. I am wondering if I should specify application type (roller vs. spraying) to as to insure the floor's protection.

First up is the primering of the walls and ceilings. This will be done on virgin drywall (meaning no previous paint). I'm think something along the lines of a tinted primer, maybe 18% gray in nature. Then my only focus would be the theater room.

And speaking of the theater room I am wondering if I should replicate what I did upstairs in the Mini Me room (aka bat cave), which was to use the darkest purple-blue that Sherwin-Williams offers, or maybe something else. The initial flooring condition is stained, but this is only because I have yet to experience the tragedy of concrete's acoustics.

Anything to keep in mind?

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zaphod




Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2002
Location: Cloverdale


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

when putting on paint, particularily dark tints, i have the store tint the primer half strength of the final colour. helps a lot. and don't cheap put on the paint. every time i stray from Ben-Moore i regret it.
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WanMan




Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SW actually made (makes) a paint designed so that completely inexperienced folks (DIYers) can put the paint down and have it never too thin. I cannot remember the paint series name, but I tried it once and it worked really well.
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emdawgz1




Joined: 14 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont like SW paint. I only use Benjamin Moore. Covers better nicer finish lasts...

I painted dark colors over a white primer w/ no issues at all. Ben Moore paint.

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CRT_Ben




Joined: 28 Aug 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We painted our entire house interior with SW Harmony and Duration paint about three months ago. My only comparison is the Behr we bought for the ceilings (we didn't like the paint we had gotten from SW and SW was closed when we went to paint), and some Behr semigloss we bought to paint some closet doors. I didn't like the Behr at all, we had to put two coats on everything to get good coverage. Overall we have had good luck with SW paints - I never tried Benjamin Moore but I'm sure it's good quality.
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WanMan




Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emdawgz1 wrote:
I dont like SW paint. I only use Benjamin Moore. Covers better nicer finish lasts...

I painted dark colors over a white primer w/ no issues at all. Ben Moore paint.
I have no complaints of SW paint. My exterior was done in 2003 and it still looks great. To each his own, of course, but I wasn't looking for feedback on one vs another, but rather things like primer tinting, color, etc. That kind of feedback would have actually been useful.
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emdawgz1




Joined: 14 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WanMan wrote:
emdawgz1 wrote:
I dont like SW paint. I only use Benjamin Moore. Covers better nicer finish lasts...

I painted dark colors over a white primer w/ no issues at all. Ben Moore paint.
I have no complaints of SW paint. My exterior was done in 2003 and it still looks great. To each his own, of course, but I wasn't looking for feedback on one vs another, but rather things like primer tinting, color, etc. That kind of feedback would have actually been useful.



Sorry..... Embarassed

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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys, there are several excellent quality paint manufacturers besides Benjamin Moore. Regardless of brand, you just have to get good quality paint. I know several professional painters that won't use anything other than Sherwin-Williams. I've now had two house exteriors painted, and many interior rooms, almost all with Sherwin-Williams, and I've had excellent results.

Most recently, I did the HT in all dark colors with Mautz paints - a regional manufacturer acquired by Sherwin-Williams - and got excellent results. I did use a tinted primer (per pro recommendation), but dark colors covered excellent, and the finish was nice and smooth.

Try to skimp and get cheap $10-15/gallon paint, and you'll end up spending just as much (or more) money on the "cheap" paint in extra coats, and you'll spend way more time and end up frustrated for an inferior finish. Use a good primer, a high quality paint, good brushes and roller covers (don't skimp there, either!), and it'll be smooth sailing.

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ecrabb
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PostLink    Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, and Wan - unless you're priming an entire basement finish over unfinished floors, they'll be rolling the job. There's no way you can cover the floor well enough to spray even the primer over finished floors. Rolling is better, anyway. Spraying is for high-volume max production - it has nothing to do with quality.

Oh, and I'm going to guess you'll have your system up and running in your HT about 30 seconds before you go carpet shopping. Wink

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dturco




Joined: 06 Feb 2009
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Location: Eastern Shore Maryland

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PostLink    Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely have your primer tinted 50% of the final shade for dark colors. You also have bare, virgin, drywall which has to have primer, it is imperative to use the primer for this type of application. As others have said do not use any type of spraying equipment it looks terrible, chalky, and see through when done that way.

Personally I only use Benjamin Moore paints and a roller of 3/8 nap and no higher for all wall applications. For the theater use only flat or matte finishes to keep the reflections and glare down. Also paint the ceilings dark, not necessarily the same as the walls, but dark and complementary to the walls.

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tri_joel




Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 646
Location: Northern Virginia


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, spray vs. brush & roll - I NEVER allow the final coats to be sprayed. I have allowed primer and base coat spraying but I find that if the painter does brush & roll only, they see and correct more defects. If you have a painter without a piece of sandpaper in his back pocket, ask him to leave.

Second - there are many variable in what makes a "good" paint. If you are looking for paint that is easy for the painter to put on and don't care about longevity then there are several available. If you want a good quality paint, are on a budget, and are not concerned about color depth then SW and BM are very good mid-level paints. If you want super high quality (washable, non-fading, long lasting, etc.) then you need to look at Farrow & Ball. It costs twice as much as BM, but when you think that you probably need less than ten gallons, it really doesn't cost that much more. Second, high end paints will use more pigments, sometimes more than twice as many pigments as mid-level paints. More pigments give you a deeper, richer color. Remember to order a sample pot of your color choice and paint a sample on the wall in the room you are going to paint, this is VERY important with highly pigmented paints because the color will change with surrounding conditions.

We painted our first house with BM, loved it, thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. When we moved after five years, you could see an outline around every picture we had hanging, the paint faded around the pictures. When I remodeled our existing home, we used Farrow & Ball, it's been three years and the paint still looks new.

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zaphod




Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2002
Location: Cloverdale


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WanMan wrote:
To each his own, of course, but I wasn't looking for feedback on one vs another, but rather things like primer tinting, color, etc. That kind of feedback would have actually been useful.

i guess you actually missed this. Wink
zaphod wrote:
when putting on paint, particularily dark tints, i have the store tint the primer half strength of the final colour. helps a lot...
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WanMan




Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, due to the fact that the wife and I have not chosen the individual room colors for wall/ceiling paint we went with simple neutral-colored primer. I should have taken pictures of the floors beforehand to give you folks some idea of what colors they look like when asking for color suggestions for the walls and ceiling.

I think it is much easier to make paint color choices when the floors are neutral, but since the floors are now with faux marble staining its making the wall color choices a lot more difficult. Ugh.

The only thing I no for certain is that the HT room will have very dark wall and ceiling color, and the screen wall painted flat black. Other than that color matching the floors in the rest of the basement (which accounts for 70% of the basement) is bewildering.

On the note of wall color I watched a scene in Three Days of the Condor when Higgens is waiting to speak to Turner for the first time. The room also has Atwood, Wabash and some others in it. In the background is this very vibrant orange wall that looks like its made with John Mansfield cubical fabric. I think in one of my rooms it would go perfectly with the chair-rail lighting splashing upwards and the wife agrees. Yet trying to replicate this in paint ...

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zaphod




Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2002
Location: Cloverdale


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i can't picture that scene from TDOTC, but for a fabric look, i've seen the following done.

find a car snow brush - cheap is good, just a single row of 3 or 4 inch bristles on a long wood handle with an ice scraper
cut off the wood handle to make a tool with only the bristle part
while the paint is wet, run the bristles lightly horizontally across the entire wall
then run the bristles vertically (again, lightly) on the entire wall

the result looks like linen. neat effect

of course the other option is to put orange fabric on the wall with wallpaper paste... but not in my house, my wife and i have regular discussions on how she likes the colour orange, but doesn't really want it anywhere in the house. go figure...

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winduptoy




Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 187
Location: Lunenburg, Nova Scotia


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I usually go with BM or Para (excellent colors for acrylic - Made up here so I don't know whether or not you can get it in the States). My preferred app. method is foam rollers. Can save some money if you check out the mistinted paints and see if there is enough for the first coat (after the primer) Then it will only take one coat of the final color and it's easy to see if you missed any spots.
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jask




Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 10164
Location: kamloops BC


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have used a lot of dark colours around the house and in the theater room used a Ralph Laren colour as the pigment bill was so high even Benjamin Moore could not mix it! generally I use the BM paints as they have the colours and quality.
_ don't spray in an occupied house! contractors spray for speed not quality.
_ do use a sealer/primer on new sheetrock, an unfinished wall will suck all the moisture out of the regular paint before it cures and print through filler and tape lines as matte areathat can carry through 2-3 coats.
_ if you are using a dark colour, don't prime at half go darker! your paint shop should be able to show you the correct base colour. We used a deep crimson in our dining room and underpainted with a plum colour-one coat of each. A friend wanted to use the same colour and ended up putting up 4 coats on a white wall to get the same colour.
_ I use mistints as primer/undercoat all the time...a lot of shops will retint or darken a mistint if there is room in the tin, it does not need to be spot on.
_ use short nap rollers for matte finish and foam for a smooth finish, and always take time to do a very good job on the first wall you see when you enter a room.
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ronholm




Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 12111



PostLink    Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK... First the floor is east to cover... You need 3 mil plastic... The edges next to walls taped with a 6 or 9 inch tape/paper... Then over the plastic in any work or walking area you need either kraft paper or some nice drops (canvas tarps)...


Once again... The best way to paint trim is to spray oil... The guy with the brush that says he can lay paint on as smooth as if it was sprayed... Don't let him paint your car.. He doesn't have a frign clue...


for the walls... you need the roller stipple to hide drywall imperfections.. if they spray the primer on the walls.. and don't backroll the wall... making very smooth strokes top to bottom... FIRE THEM... and don't take any BS about well its just the primer coat.. that roller line and little bit of drywall dust WILL show up in the finish coat if each and every application of product is not treated as if it were the finish coat..

Spraying is not only done for speed guys... It allows for thicker (hiding more imperfections) and ultimately more durable paint finishes... Also... Spraying the walls will save huge amounts of "cut in" time... allowing the absence of the brush to roller transition marks that are always visible in a DIY paint job.. never touching the wall (save for the ceiling to wall cut) with a brush is the best way to get rid of brush marks... and spraying latex in a occupied house is not a big deal at all if gun pressures are at proper levels.. The paint releases FAR more VOC's while drying than the difference between a spray or a rolled application.




This nonsense about Benny Moore paint... Its a load of crap... It is overpriced at best... They charge all the money for the damn stuff because they have this huge marketing dept to fund to keep all those pretty colors and making interior designers think they have the best product.. Its just a frign designer label... its nonsense... Some like it though... and I guess more power to them... Its decent enough paint and if you don't mind paying a premium for a fancy label when you can have better paint at the same price... or an equal product at a lower price... Hey.. Its your frign money... and I am an opinionated jerk anyway...

Me.. I am a Sherwin guy... it just that I like to buy paint from a company that spends more of its resources on paint than Marketing.. but that is just me.. Wink and at SW you can buy any grade of paint you need for any type of job... Even the kinds of "twice the cost of benny" products.... That is if you know what to ask for....


Quote:

Try to skimp and get cheap $10-15/gallon paint, and you'll end up spending just as much (or more) money on the "cheap" paint in extra coats, and you'll spend way more time and end up frustrated for an inferior finish. Use a good primer, a high quality paint, good brushes and roller covers (don't skimp there, either!), and it'll be smooth sailing.


Wait... I buy Sherwin 200 for ... aaawww nevermind.. and it beats the frign pants off the entry level benny stuff... and most of BM mid grade line...... And Proclassic... It beats the pants off of BM enamels in about every category... but I guess that is for another time....

and a big 2nd on good roller covers... I have a couple nice sheepskins that have been around a long time...

When hiring a painter though... If I hire a guy to paint... and he is a benny moore guy... and I have seen and like his work... A true professional will let a true professional use whatever paint he is most comfortable with.... and typically... myself included... I HATE it when customers try and buy product for me.. You wouldn't dream of telling the auto body shop which brands of paint to spray your car with... So please don't act like you are a paint expert because some ding dong designer that never picked up a paint brush in his life told you BM was the best. Rolling Eyes





Oh and Wanman. Good luck picking colors.. LMAO... thats why those interior decorators I love to hate make the big bucks... and why I typically get to paint rooms two or three times when those knuckleheads get involved.... My only advice is go just slightly bolder than you might be inclined to... but you are talking about a bright orange... so that might be bad advice for you... Wink

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jask




Joined: 17 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a paint story!!
we needed to do some painting on the exterior of our office so a painter was hired and the guy who caught the job at our office went out to buy a "nice beige".... something modern..inoffensive...conservative.
Painter starts the next morning and is half way through the job when he comes in for a water break...."wow! that is quite the colour he picked..." says the painter

(UH oh...)

out we go to check out the new paint. the front is now chartreuse ( bright yellow with bright green mixed in!!!) Shocked Shocked turns out our paint buyer is colour blind Rolling Eyes
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ronholm




Joined: 26 Jan 2007
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jask wrote:
Here is a paint story!!
we needed to do some painting on the exterior of our office so a painter was hired and the guy who caught the job at our office went out to buy a "nice beige".... something modern..inoffensive...conservative.
:



I can't wait until this trend of painting everything brown is over...

Here is the political spin Wink How in the world did we go from orange vinyl flooring with lime green countertops .... to painting the whole damn house light brown as not to offend anybody... Around here... Johnson country Kansas is loaded full of 250 to 750K homes... and you can walk right into a SW and pick up "Johnson County beige"

Good grief...

and Green shag carpet becomes light brown "frieza" seriously....

I ain't saying I want to go back to the 70's color schemes (ok maybe a little bit) but there has to be a place between here and there....

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AnalogRocks
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At least it's not the 80's fav color Dusty Rose ( fcukin' pink! ) Rolling Eyes
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