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Continued Blending of the Longbow's & Now 9 " Swap!
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Its an all digital signal via HDMI tot he PJ. How can I check the level via HDMI? Doesnt it need to be in the analog domain? I could check The analog outs on the
C2-2250, i think both outs will work together since i have the MUX in the chain.

Athanasios

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tse



Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 1014
Location: Sweatbucket, Fl.


PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
Its an all digital signal via HDMI tot he PJ. How can I check the level via HDMI? Doesnt it need to be in the analog domain? I could check The analog outs on the
C2-2250, i think both outs will work together since i have the MUX in the chain.

Athanasios


Yeah, you're not going to be able to check the HDMI signals with the scope but verify the analog signal going to the VIM is correct. That is going to have to be right before this works.

Scott

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draganm



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8784
Location: Colorado


PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garyfritz wrote:
Interesting. That's one mod I haven't done, and I badly need it. The line isn't all that faint in any kind of dark scene -- very distracting. I've been swamped for the last 6 months but I'm getting a breather now. Time to yank that VIM!
you set your G2's, and by default Brightness, pretty high so you will be seeing that line all the time. I really like my system to go FFTB so the line isn't there unless I really look hard for it.
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tse wrote:
Nashou66 wrote:
Its an all digital signal via HDMI tot he PJ. How can I check the level via HDMI? Doesnt it need to be in the analog domain? I could check The analog outs on the
C2-2250, i think both outs will work together since i have the MUX in the chain.

Athanasios


Yeah, you're not going to be able to check the HDMI signals with the scope but verify the analog signal going to the VIM is correct. That is going to have to be right before this works.

Scott


Thats what i meant when i said i'll check the RGB outs on the moome card that is right in on the VIM. It would be checked off Moomes VIM-HD card right of the Euro card connector pins for the RGB signal before it gets to the
relays or the decoupling capacitor on the actual Vim.

I'll try it both ways, on moomes Vim-Hd card and see if the analog outs on the C2-2250 put out a signal at the same time the HDMI outs do. If the MUX is stripping the HDCP signal I think both outputs are on in the C2-2250, at least I hope they are.

Athanasios

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garyfritz



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 10645
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

draganm wrote:
garyfritz wrote:
Interesting. That's one mod I haven't done, and I badly need it. The line isn't all that faint in any kind of dark scene -- very distracting. I've been swamped for the last 6 months but I'm getting a breather now. Time to yank that VIM!
you set your G2's, and by default Brightness, pretty high so you will be seeing that line all the time. I really like my system to go FFTB so the line isn't there unless I really look hard for it.

No, I've really got my 8500 set about right, according to HCFR. It does fade to full black, takes several seconds for my eyes to adjust to see the raster after FFTB. Except for the line, which is really in-your-face in FFTB, and very noticeable in darkish scenes.
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garyfritz



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 10645
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Somebody recently posted a pic of an alternate way to wire this mod, with all the parts on the top of the board instead of on both sides. It looked like it might be an easier/better way to do the mod. But now I can't find it. Anybody got a pointer to it?
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it this one form my "the longbows are here!!" thread?




Athanasios

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garyfritz



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 10645
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the one! Thanks Athanasios. Time to get a few resistors... but it sounded like the diodes (the long vertical components between the video jacks) probably wasn't worth doing?
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1031



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 657
Location: Finland


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garyfritz wrote:
That's the one! Thanks Athanasios. Time to get a few resistors... but it sounded like the diodes (the long vertical components between the video jacks) probably wasn't worth doing?


Those 3 resistors are part of TB that reduces internal testpatterns ringing, those 3 that are tied to one point (upper in picture) are for that "failt line" TB, those are 1,5Mohms

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bbfarmht



Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 1272
Location: Where the Mississippi runs east to west!!


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I tried to find who said this but, Cliff had mentioned this also. The problem with a blend is that you are using the worst focusing part of the tube face directly in the middle of the screen.

On that thought, Nash are you moving the raster on the blend side over farther away from edge than normal?

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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5634
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While that is true, one doesn't have to maximize raster usage. I believe Elaine experiments and found that the smaller raster produces a much sharper image, which is probably one of the reasons they are set up this way.
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stefuel



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3352
Location: Green Harbor MA USA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I don't care what size the raster is. It's the image that is what counts. If you want to see what size it "should" be for a 9"LC, take a raw tube and with a magic marker and ruler, make a X on the face, corner to corner. Where the lines intersect in the middle, measure out in all four directions 3.5 inches and make a dot. Then take your ruler and marker and play connect the dots. You will end up with a rectangle exactly the size that a HD-10 lens of any flavor is optimized for and it's a lot smaller than you'd think.
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A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels

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MikeEby



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5236
Location: Osceola, Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It probably would wear the tube faster with a smaller area. The good part because since it's a blend you don't have to push the tubes as hard.

Mike

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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
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Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chip,
I agree, but not everybody has a Bentley (I mean Ampro). Some guys have to make do with Yugos (aka Barco). Mr. Green

Mike,
Yes, it will wear the tubes quicker. That is why everyone bitches when they see a pj with small raster usage. Of course, the requirements of the company that paid retail for the pj and the dumpster divers around here are quite different. Razz Laughing

In this case, using a smaller raster will probably be beneficial to Nash. He should get a much sharper image despite the downside of increased wear rate. Hell, he has a hundred tubes lying around. It is not like he is going to run out. Smile
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm at work and we had a bit of a dinner rush and come back to see there was some activity here ! Smile The sharpness drop off isn't as bad as you think Adam. The reason I decided to pull the blend zone closer to the center would be for better color matching, at least in theory i think this would be true as i always found at the edge and corners especially, the colors seem to be off a bit. As to tube wear I don't think it be a big problem as I wouldn't try to sell the Used tubes after any how unless i decide to go to a 9 inch blend way before these 8 inches show any wear.

Well i decided last night to pull out the eye one and try to calibrate the left PJ. I also left the Bh200 as is and did not try to read any measurments(too lazy Embarassed ) Well i failed miserably. I used Calman for the first time and just could not get
the grey's to stay grey or the whites to stay white. On my other Pj's using the EYE method or HCFR i had much better results. the grey's were either a bit brownish or greenish. Defocusing blue did nothing and the only way it looked right was to go against what Calman showed. Its a Calman EYE One Display 2 probe, i have another probe i will try with also incase Calman sent me a bad probe.

So I worked on it last evening till 2 am and gave up and went to bed and thought while sleeping it could be the Color Purity
Control magnets (CPC) that needed adjusting since i was seeing a bit of flaring all around the green dots. So this morning before I came to work i worked on a complete magnetics minus the deflection coils but the blue and red might need some straightening. I centered the focus coils first as best as I could and they were more centered than before. I had less adjustment with these than on other Marquee's Hmm I will look into it again tomorrow as I will remove all hardware
around the tubes (xray shields and the top metal convergence and deflection coil covers ) i then moved onto the
CPC mags and I am glad to see they have the twist knobs as to the tabs only type. I got the red and blue very good with no movement of the grid while ramping the focus. The Green is another story. i can get the grid to not move while ramping the focus. bright dot is dead center and dots are more round that on the red and blue but the damn grid moves.
I did only reset a recall memory and not a complete initialization for the CPC mags so this is my next move. Now having typed this issue, it might be the Green grid that was not straight... if so that might explain the grid moving a bit. either way I need to do a complete reset and set up and then worry about the color issue later.

I wonder if its something with this PJ that wont allow me to color calibrate it correctly. No matter which method i use lowering the brightness causes the grey scale to turn green. even if i add more red drive and/or G2. this i noticed before using Calman and a probe. Hopefully Craig Rounds will want to stop by on his way home from his calibration tour and give me some pointers.

Athanasios

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J Kildare



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 164



PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you checked the tubes right after turning the unit off to see if one has a faint glow. Possible g2 minor short. That would effect color balance. I assume you have turned down red g2 and drive.

Jim
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Kildare wrote:
Have you checked the tubes right after turning the unit off to see if one has a faint glow. Possible g2 minor short. That would effect color balance. I assume you have turned down red g2 and drive.

Jim


I'll check it tonight when i get home. It could be the source and i should switch the C2-2250's in the chain and then the Bh200 with my Bh100 and maybe before all that the Moome MUX-HD, I wonder if that had Gamma? I never noticed a adjustment screw or saw it mentioned in the Data sheet pdf I have . Any one else know for sure?


I also should do what i always preach to all New Marquee owners is to clean all the chips on the CLM and the HDM's daughter board. On the 2nd Pj i have noticed a very faint vertical wavy pattern across the entire tube face maybe about 6-8 inches wide across the screen, and there are two to three of them evenly spaced. I tried to capture it in a pic but it wont show up. Its only on the One PJ so I think its Board related and I should swap out the CLM's to see. Its definitely some kind of noise and its there with no source connected as well.

Ahh the joys of CRT's Wink But you know how it goes once those small issues are corrected the picture cant be beat.

Speaking of beat, I am!! work was very stressful tonight.

Athanasios

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just checked both Pj's and they both do the same and I think my other PJ's do as well. the red and blue fade out quick the greens stay lit up with the image for quite a bit, a minute or two.

Athanasios

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garyfritz



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
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Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's normal. The (non-P43) green phosphor has a much longer persistence than the R & B. It drops off fairly rapidly but it can retain a faint image for quite a long time, even as much as a minute or two.
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garyfritz wrote:
That's normal. The (non-P43) green phosphor has a much longer persistence than the R & B. It drops off fairly rapidly but it can retain a faint image for quite a long time, even as much as a minute or two.



thats what I thought, thanks for the confirmation gary Thumbs Up

Athanasios

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