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Continued Blending of the Longbow's & Now 9 " Swap!
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Tim in Phoenix wrote:
Nashou66 wrote:


I also need to figure out why my one PJ menus is transparent and does not have the Black
back ground as all marquee's do. I'll post that pic too.

Athanasios


I'll bet you a donut that the CLM is missing a pulse to blank behind the OSD text


Does that pulse come from the VIM? If so I should try to swap VIMs over and see if it follows.

On Another note. I have a CLM here that I got from a local customer that had a skewed convergence in one zone.
On the CLM convergence waveform generator I need to know which amps and logic chips control what zones . I feel I just need to replace one but don't want to go through the process of changing each one out.

Athanasios

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overclkr



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4227



PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Thumbs Up Mr. Green Very Happy

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost there. Still issues but better than AC was.









Very Happy

Nashou!!!!!!!!!

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stridsvognen
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice hobby you have there.. Thumbs Up Thumbs Up

I would love to see your setup some day.. Very Happy
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stridsvognen wrote:
Nice hobby you have there.. Thumbs Up Thumbs Up

I would love to see your setup some day.. Very Happy


Thanks Kurt.

The Blend zone is still visible. Next step is displaying each IRE and finding where the blend zone is most visible.
But there are many factors involved, Blend zone size, the gamma adjustment in the blend zone, the contrast modulation in the blend zone( hardest to adjust) and the gamma matching of both PJ's at each IRE .
Nothing works out perfectly, adjusting one affects the other. I wish TV-One would add at least 10 point
adjustability of the blend zone gamma. That would be a huge help. I sent them the request, or at least add
it to the next generation of edge blenders.

Pause blurs things a bit, it is easier to see at this large resolution.










Nashou

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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overclkr



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4227



PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great job big dog! You make me want to fire up the stack! Smile

It's been forever and a day since I started those bad boys up!
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mx83toy



Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Posts: 322



PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks Great!, looking at these pics its easy to forget that its such a big screen!!
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mx83toy wrote:
Looks Great!, looking at these pics its easy to forget that its such a big screen!!


Thanks Fellow Greek Wink

Focus need work, I never checked electronic astir and Sheimfluge still needs to be done. And A little tweaking
of the calibration.

Cliff called me tonight and TOLD me I HAD to get Star trek Into the Darkness and take some screenies So I might be back posting a few of those if I am not too tired. I Need to clean up the debris from cutting the foam sound barrier I had. Its Freakin mess down there now.

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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overclkr



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4227



PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smile
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km987654



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2753
Location: Australia

TV/Projector: Barco BG809s


PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you use the magnetics from the 8" tubes?
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote








_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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jbmeyer13



Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 1131



PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
jbmeyer13 wrote:
overclkr wrote:
Damn, look at that geometry kicking ass and taking names.
Beyond impressive. Dude you so rock. YOU SUCK.

Get that center focus cleaner! Smile

YOU SUCK!!!!!!! So Awesome.


Nash did a very quick focus job and I told him that while it looks good he really needs
to do a full blown mechanical set up to compliment the geometry. My wife asked me
whether the trip was productive and I showed her the pixs. She's like: "Holy sh*t...that
screen is bigger than one of our local theaters!"

Nash- you know where I am and I need updates to entertain me. More photos please Very Happy


Yep I did a little more tonight on the Right PJ focus wise. ******* is next.

I hate that sh*t!!!

I calibrated the left PJ in the PJ itself leaving a little more blue on the top end. There is
something with these Longbows where you can not get good mid greyscale with out leaving
the top end more blue. I figured I can tame the blue with the lumagen. i did do the Right PJ
as well but realized I forgot to clear out the Lumagen first so it was based off not true PJ only colors.
So that will have to get done tomorrow or the next day. I might also do a calibration with
the two 2035-03p Vims I have instead of the longbow ones. Adjusting those trim pots sucks
and I think I need to solder them better and add glue. adjusting them puts stress on the joints and
I have some noise on green because of it.

I also need to figure out why my one PJ menus is transparent and does not have the Black
back ground as all marquee's do. I'll post that pic too.

Banding Bandit( Justin) how the f*ck do you do it!! I have banding spiting the screen in two!!
You need to get your ass back here bro!!! Wink I have no patience like you do for that crap. Or i might
just do the banding mod. But I am afraid of ruining a CLM if it doesn't work as it should.

Now as for AC vs LC in blending or just all around..........DAMN!!!!!! Love LC, much better for blending.
the blocking of the halo effect really helps in the blend zone. its still there but greatly reduced.
Especially in bright scenes. I think with more work on focus, astig and contrast modulation and finally
a good long all manual calibration session this will be one bad ass blend!!! At least I hope so.

oh here is a couple pics, I am standing on a patio end table the screen is 5'6" in viewing height
and I am 5' 10" and the table is about 10-13 inches lower than the bottom of the screen.



This is of the menus, I took this off the tripod a little blurry.




Athanasios


Looking good Nash! Why don't you try the banding mod on one of your spare Marquees (you have at least 2 of them;-)) That way not only will you determine if it works as it should but what type of effect it will have on the geometry (start pulses..)

Oblivion is the ultimate blend zone test, if you can make it look good for that film then you'll truly have something unique. Again, in all your excitement remember to run those tubes in properly prior to calibration (keep those contrast settings down).

How is the left PJ holding up with regards to drift?

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stridsvognen
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PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banding mod.?

Is it not Ultra machines.? Something here im missing..? Rolling Eyes
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jbmeyer13



Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 1131



PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stridsvognen wrote:
Banding mod.?

Is it not Ultra machines.? Something here im missing..? Rolling Eyes


Ultra boards do not cure banding. The machine code on certain chips on the CLM are said to have a significant impact. I also understand that firmware version 4.3 is the most ideal for home theater applications. The susbsequent versions were tailored more towards specific industrial use.

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Justin, It take it your back in the states now?

The left PJ still takes a while to converge but stable once it does. the right PJ is closer to converged
right away, maybe 5 minute wait.


Oblivion is a great movies and it does show the limitations of a blend in bright scenes .
I got the darker not to show it as much.
but fixing one makes the other worse. This is just how it is, might be the TV-ones algorithm
for the blend curve or just
me needing to match gamma better for some IRE's. I definitely need to work on focus.

And you are the Banding bandit!!! I barely see it on the left Pj but it is annoyingly visible on the right.

I just won an ebay auction for a 2006 VDC Ultra 8500 for 75 bucks Wink it had a damaged VIM that
looks like it was bent by a fork lift. The place said they would remove all boards for me and ship
those so I finally have a spare set of Ultra boards for super cheap!!! Very Happy If any one wants the tubes I
might be able to convince them to ship them to you, i have no idea on condition. lenses were HD8's.
They have not taken the boards out yet, I linked them to the marquee facts on tear down. hopefully
they wont damage the HDM or VNB's.

Kurt, I have been given a special mod for the CLM that eliminates banding but it looks like a hard
mod to get right. very fine soldering work on the CLM near logic chips, lots of jumper wires etc.
That is why I wanted this set of boards so I can get the Ultra CLM to experiment on.

One other thing I noticed on these new 9 inch tubes is ringing even with the 1056x800p@72 res i use.
It should be breeze as my 8 inch tubes did not do this. I wonder if Justins extremely detailed
geometry work adds ringing. Hmmm???


Nashou

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

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jbmeyer13



Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 1131



PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
Hi Justin, It take it your back in the states now?

The left PJ still takes a while to converge but stable once it does. the right PJ is closer to converged
right away, maybe 5 minute wait.


Oblivion is a great movies and it does show the limitations of a blend in bright scenes .
I got the darker not to show it as much.
but fixing one makes the other worse. This is just how it is, might be the TV-ones algorithm
for the blend curve or just
me needing to match gamma better for some IRE's. I definitely need to work on focus.

And you are the Banding bandit!!! I barely see it on the left Pj but it is annoyingly visible on the right.

I just won an ebay auction for a 2006 VDC Ultra 8500 for 75 bucks Wink it had a damaged VIM that
looks like it was bent by a fork lift. The place said they would remove all boards for me and ship
those so I finally have a spare set of Ultra boards for super cheap!!! Very Happy If any one wants the tubes I
might be able to convince them to ship them to you, i have no idea on condition. lenses were HD8's.
They have not taken the boards out yet, I linked them to the marquee facts on tear down. hopefully
they wont damage the HDM or VNB's.

Kurt, I have been given a special mod for the CLM that eliminates banding but it looks like a hard
mod to get right. very fine soldering work on the CLM near logic chips, lots of jumper wires etc.
That is why I wanted this set of boards so I can get the Ultra CLM to experiment on.

One other thing I noticed on these new 9 inch tubes is ringing even with the 1056x800p@72 res i use.
It should be breeze as my 8 inch tubes did not do this. I wonder if Justins extremely detailed
geometry work adds ringing. Hmmm???


Nashou


Heading back over shortly. Banding is a PITA for sure and if not for this setting up a Marquee would be a breeze. Where is the banding on the right PJ?

Raster ringing has nothing to do with geometry adjustments via random access or interpolated. On my set up, I could see ringing on 800p/72 prior to making ANY adjustments to geometry. Even after shifting my raster so that the right edge of the active image was just a tad past the right screen border I still had to use a rather large HTOT in the HDQ to get the ringing entirely out of the image.

Did you check for ringing when the left PJ was on the floor (100 IRE green field)? You were working rather quickly and if you forgot to shift the raster/phase and adjust porch settings ringing will rear it's ugly head. Other solution would be to track down 2 of the Boeing Simulator HDM's. They won't ring no matter what you throw at them. The only other option is that resistor change but I know you aren't thrilled about that idea.

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ElTopo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1497



PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nash,

how much fL are you getting after greyscale and gamut ?


ElTopo

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ElTopo wrote:
Nash,

how much fL are you getting after greyscale and gamut ?


ElTopo


I have a drop from the 11.5 foot 8 inche blend of about 2-2.5 fl.

I was getting about 7-8 fl depending on what movie I was watching on some id
pop up contrast a few clicks.

But for now I am running lower G2's till i get some hours but still running a little
hot on contrast about 68-70. So about 5.3 fl as of now.

Once I dial it all in and get good focus and the tubes settle in I will aim for a 75 contrast.
I might be able to get back to 7 fl. But what you loose in Brightness you gain in resolvability.

Also remember I have a unity gain screen. But I now wonder what a slight gain would do.
Maybe 1.5 I do not think it would affect blend zone in an adverse way, and it might actually
help due to the natural roll off at the edge of CRT's. Digitals definitely would need a unity gain
for blending since they are pretty uniform right to the edge.

I might also try something different with calibration next time around. I always have done grey
scale in the center of each 4x3area of the screen.
Next time I'll do it about 6-12 inches from the edge of the blend zone.
Maybe not greyscale but at least gamma, that is the hard part to match. But having said that
it all depends on how well you have the Zone Contrast Modulation done in the blend zone for
both PJ's ,the Y value should match at each % white on both PJ . I should get another laptop
and run the software on both so I can match them in real time instead of just matching numbers
on paper. Seeing what is happening between both would really help. I can shift the one image over
so there is no overlap between both PJ,s then hang a black cloth to separate any light bouncing of
the adjacent calibration window.


Here again another person would be great, a second set of eye does wonders.

nashou

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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Tim in Phoenix



Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4202
Location: Phoenix


PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Nash

I asked a lot of people about screen gain for blending, they were unanimous with strictly 1.0, or prepare for color shift problems
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim in Phoenix wrote:
Hey Nash

I asked a lot of people about screen gain for blending, they were unanimous with strictly 1.0, or
prepare for color shift problems


You might be right, I first had it on my Da-Lite ModelC 1.3 gain but can not remember if I had any
issues due to my lack of knowledge at the time or the screen. I can still pull it down and test as it
hidden up into the soffit. But I had a hard time getting it to recoil back into its case so not sure if
I want to risk it right now.

Nashou

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
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