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Continued Blending of the Longbow's & Now 9 " Swap!
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:30 pm    Post subject: Continued Blending of the Longbow's & Now 9 " Swap! Reply with quote


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Well here are some screenies of the very very rough set up
with no CPC mags adjusted no Scheimplug and the geometry
at about a 7 out of 10. And no colorimeter work at all as you
will be able to see. i also overexposed the pics a bit, a second
less would have been more accurate.













As you can see lots of work still to be done!!! But I am
having a fun time learning, even after about 2.5 years with
a marquee there is still much more to learn!

Athanasios

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"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
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Marquee C-element and Bellow removal


Last edited by Nashou66 on Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:00 am; edited 3 times in total
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emdawgz1



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 7949



PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a rough setup that looks Really Good! Thumbs Up

Keep it going!!!

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ecrabb
Forum Moderator


Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dude, that looks like a pretty awesome setup for a first attempt! I'm excited to see how long it'll take you to get a little further along. Looks like you need a little low-level gamma boost to take the dark valley out of the blend. How big is your blend zone?

SC
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys, it really needs each PJ calibrated, the blend line will be less pronounced then, then i need to adjust the gamma correctly in the zone. Right now each PJ has a different blend amount due to the geometry and PJ placement not being perfect. but you really don't need it to be with these units as you can adjust the zone on each PJ around till you find the least amount of the dark or light area showing. I don't recall off hand how much is in the actual zone but i am using 1064 x800 to each PJ and it's not optimized to use all those lines vertically i assume from the different zone amounts i had to use. But little by little i'll get there then i'll have to do it all over again when it moves to the ceiling.

Ok I went down to look on the C2-2250's at what each blend zone was, its closer than I thought 90 and 94 respectfully left to right but also i should mention that if i turn off one PJ the center is off a bit so those numbers are not describing the exact center. But its pretty close, it's nice to have the flexibility of not having to have each PJ exactly the same over all size wise with regards to the picture, if your having a hard time with raster ringing or some other wear pattern on an edge you can blend more on that PJ and compensate in the other PJ so your blend wont actually be in the center. Of course this does not then maximize one of the PJ raster but if one is worn more than the other this can be a good way to reduce the wear from being seen.

Athanasios

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"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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MikeEby



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5236
Location: Osceola, Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking good!

Mike

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Brian Hampton



Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 1174



PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would keep watching that.

I can see the blend but it looks good and also looks to be huge.

-Brian
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emdawgz1



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 7949



PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou, how are you running your sources to the processors and to the pj's.

I was looking on the TVone site and it sys the units run DVI and sdi outs....

Curious? Confused

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian Hampton wrote:
I would keep watching that.

I can see the blend but it looks good and also looks to be huge.

-Brian


The two Pj are not even close color calibrated wise and in certain IRE scene's it much more noticeable like in the grey overscan pattern. i am positive a proper calibration on both PJ's will eliminate the visible blend zone .

The screen is the bottom section of my 16x9 140 inch wide screen, the image is about 58 inches tall and 140 wide.
the PJ's are about 97 inches back from the screen.

I first marked of the edges of a 1.33 screen size using the 58 inch height. so it was about 77 inches wide each side.
I then tried to put the image to fit that screen after putting the 1064x800 out from the C2-2250's. This is where i should have spent more time, i did not get it to fit exactly right but close enough. Its hard to roll the PJ cart around on carpet with thick padding underneath to get it to settle just right. if i wanted more precision i'd need to bring in a 4x8 sheet of plywood to use as a hard surface to roll the cart on easier.



emdawgz1 wrote:
Nashou, how are you running your sources to the processors and to the pj's.

I was looking on the TVone site and it sys the units run DVI and sdi outs....

Curious?


I am using a LG BH200 BD/HD DVD player to a Moome MUX which has a HDMI and a DVI out, this then goes to each C2-2250 via a HDMI to DVI cable and DVI to DVI cable to the other C2-2250, these do not have the HD SDI outs or ins. From the C2-2250's they go to each moome Vim HD card in the PJ's. I think for the final set up i will add the
Lumagen HDQ to the mix to get my SDI SD player in the set up. and I wont need a bunch of splitters for each type of
source, it can then be all DVI out from the lumagen to the Moome MUX or a DVI splitter. I like the moome becasue it gets rid of any HDCP issues that might come about.

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal


Last edited by Nashou66 on Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ElTopo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1509



PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

very very nice setup Thumbs Up

ElTopo

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draganm



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8769
Location: Colorado


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the right side is Pink, even a 5 minute gray scale adjustment should get rid of that. Other than that it's really frickin cool.
Hows the noise level with both marquees running?
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Mr. Green



Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1394
Location: Calgary

TV/Projector: Marquee 9501LC / NEC 9PG+


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AURGH!!! That looks so cool! I need to get me another projector!!!... and a theatre with light control... and... and... and... Now I remember why I only have one. Smile

However, if I was deaf and light sensitive I could grab that pair of 1292's Curt jut got in... Wink

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Current Projector Marquee9501LC with PS3 (BLu-Ray) at 1080P LOVE IT! Screen is an Elunevision 120" 4:3 (2.4 gain - no hotspots). (also own a NEC 9PG+)
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

draganm wrote:
the right side is Pink, even a 5 minute gray scale adjustment should get rid of that. Other than that it's really frickin cool.
Hows the noise level with both marquees running?


Yepp it is cool! I tried a bunch of times to get it right(the pink) but to get the proper black levels my BH200 is causing the problem... it has too hot an output it seams, It has a Qdeo processor in it which is defeat-able. So I turn it off, but the default settings for the contrast and brightness are way off too( I used EtechVideo style calibration before hooking up player) it washed out everything, and the BH200 has a stupid picture of a bunch of kids to use for setting the contrast, brightness, sharpness, and color. it also has individual red,green and blue but it can only use the pic it provides. i can't use the DVE disc as the reference image to make the adjustments, i have to stop the adjustment and go to the plug pattern to see how i did with black level then go back to the adjustment menu. pain in the ass with disc having to stop each time then reload!!! LG screwed up with that one other wise its a great image. So i did not feel like tweeking it any more out of frustration. the LG player is sooo hot i had to set the contrast and brightness way way to low to barely see the black bars in the DVE disc, Contrast to 30 and brightness to 15 on the one PJ but then the grey's became green( i also did not really defocus blue yet probably why). I think I am going to use the BH100 when i try again. That has the correct output, as other sources are not too far off. But each time i got the PJ's greyscale closer to each other the blend zone became less and less noticeable.

You know I never even paid attention to the noise!! I guess its not too bad, i also did not have any music on or audio.
But they will get my enobal bearing fan mod done to them.

Still lots of tweeking and work to do, i spent hours down there on thursday night and it easy to loose track of time in a bat cave. started at 7pm and stopped at 1 am!! I cant wait till TV-One gets the PC based gamma control done.

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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Mr. Green



Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1394
Location: Calgary

TV/Projector: Marquee 9501LC / NEC 9PG+


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the no real setup photos, now I see what others mean by the center will be out of focus and dark. I still think it's a great way to run 2 projectors "less hard" and get more tube life while using more tube surface. I'd love to try this.

Has anybody figured out what the best projector/ lens combo is for blending at "VARIOUS" price points is?

I find my NEC 9PG+ gets pretty good corner and edge focus. Would it be worthwhile trying with a 2nd projector of the same type?

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Current Projector Marquee9501LC with PS3 (BLu-Ray) at 1080P LOVE IT! Screen is an Elunevision 120" 4:3 (2.4 gain - no hotspots). (also own a NEC 9PG+)
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mp20748



Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5358
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
draganm wrote:
the right side is Pink, even a 5 minute gray scale adjustment should get rid of that. Other than that it's really frickin cool.
Hows the noise level with both marquees running?


Yepp it is cool! I tried a bunch of times to get it right(the pink) but to get the proper black levels my BH200 is causing the problem... it has too hot an output it seams, It has a Qdeo processor in it which is defeat-able. So I turn it off, but the default settings for the contrast and brightness are way off too( I used EtechVideo style calibration before hooking up player) it washed out everything, and the BH200 has a stupid picture of a bunch of kids to use for setting the contrast, brightness, sharpness, and color. it also has individual red,green and blue but it can only use the pic it provides. i can't use the DVE disc as the reference image to make the adjustments, i have to stop the adjustment and go to the plug pattern to see how i did with black level then go back to the adjustment menu. pain in the ass with disc having to stop each time then reload!!! LG screwed up with that one other wise its a great image. So i did not feel like tweeking it any more out of frustration. the LG player is sooo hot i had to set the contrast and brightness way way to low to barely see the black bars in the DVE disc, Contrast to 30 and brightness to 15 on the one PJ but then the grey's became green( i also did not really defocus blue yet probably why). I think I am going to use the BH100 when i try again. That has the correct output, as other sources are not too far off. But each time i got the PJ's greyscale closer to each other the blend zone became less and less noticeable.


Still lots of tweeking and work to do, i spent hours down there on thursday night and it easy to loose track of time in a bat cave. started at 7pm and stopped at 1 am!! I cant wait till TV-One gets the PC based gamma control done.

Athanasios


you're going to give yourself a real headache doing it this way. Find and post a horizontal step pattern. The key to blending is the patterns. You're going to need two test patterns to pull this off, and one of them is ALIGN. When blending you'll always need the grid patterns that also has the diagonal lines. The best for this would be the ALIGN software, because you can set the amount of lines you want.

The ALIGN software will help with the geometry, but the horizontal step pattern will help with the biggest problem with blending--color matching. Don't worry about gamma or anything like that being a problem... just get those two patterns and get back...


I have some Digital blends, which involves 3 chip DLP's. You think matching colors on CRT's is hard. It's really nothing compared to the large 3 chip DLP's blends. The large commercial DLP projectors have very complex color menus, maybe 3 to 5 times more complex than CRT, and they're just for color balance. So working with them, I got around to learning how to make this easy. I maintain one system that has 2 blend zones on 4 digital projectors.

So all you'll need initially is to have reasonable geometry setup on both and one must be color calibrated. Lets make the one on the left the one that's color calibrated.
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stefuel



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3352
Location: Green Harbor MA USA


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure that matching will also be grounds for a large bottle of Advil. Trying to match a full screen ten step IRE will be fun to say the least. I'm sure you could get ten steps close but never exact between the two.
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mp20748



Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5358
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stefuel wrote:
I'm sure that matching will also be grounds for a large bottle of Advil. Trying to match a full screen ten step IRE will be fun to say the least. I'm sure you could get ten steps close but never exact between the two.


It does not need to be a 10 step, it could be 7 or almost any step pattern.

The point with the step pattern is that it becomes the reference for the other PJ. And when properly used, it's quick, smart and makes the best matching I've seen yet. But you'll have to understand why it works so well. And it can also be used for a perfect match.
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tri_joel



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 646
Location: Northern Virginia


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike-

Do you know who did the blend at the Mount Vernon museum?

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Clarence



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 3609
Location: Northern Virginia


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tri_joel wrote:
Mike-

Do you know who did the blend at the Mount Vernon museum?


Ooh... my wife and kids went with friends last year as a day trip, but I chose to stay home and work. But I might go next time if there's a blend to check out. Do you have any details? Projectors? Screen? Processor?
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Clarence



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 3609
Location: Northern Virginia


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clarence wrote:
tri_joel wrote:
Mike-

Do you know who did the blend at the Mount Vernon museum?


Ooh... my wife and kids went with friends last year as a day trip, but I chose to stay home and work. But I might go next time if there's a blend to check out. Do you have any details? Projectors? Screen? Processor?


I asked google...

http://www.inparkmagazine.com/issues/15/PDF/4D2.pdf

inparkmagazine wrote:
Custom screens by Stewart Filmscreen: one 12-foot by 16-foot oval tilted 32 degrees, one rectangle 12-foot by 28-foot, tilted 5 degrees.

Three Christie DS-5K DLP projectors mounted on custom lift built by Design & Production. Alesis HD24 digital playback recorder.

It snows in the Revolutionary War Theater. Snow from three custom-automated Snowmaster 1600 machines.


Hmmm... Snowmaster 1600. Wonder why they didn't use the Snowmaster 2300?
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike do you have the align pattern? My Bh200 had a USB drive input for png and jpeg among other file formats. I could try it that way.

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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