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Continued Blending of the Longbow's & Now 9 " Swap!
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Mark_A_W




Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia


PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Nashou66 wrote:
I think the only advantage
that going to a 9 inch set would do for a blend is add brightness,

Athanasios



Umm...Liquid Coupling? (From memory you're running longbows with HD-144s?)


I noticed an enormous difference when I converted my XG to LC. A haze is removed from the image.
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Tim in Phoenix




Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4378
Location: Phoenix


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys!

The improvement with LC will be in heightened contrast ratio and tighter focus.

.
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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep that would be another improvement i forgot about !! Very Happy

Nashou

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stefuel




Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll probably be banned from the forum but...
I'll go along with the better contrast ratio and the elimination of halos when using LC optics but I don't subscibe to the idea of better focus. I think a sharper image can be had from a AC projector any day with the right lenses.

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Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels

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Mark_A_W




Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree Chip.

For 1:1 test patterns my XG was sharper with HD-144s, compared to LC with HD-18s. And the corners were sharper.

But on video content the LC is "clearer". The washout caused by the light spill is always present with AC lenses. The removal of this haze was the biggest improvement for me. The "clearer" video appears sharper to your eye.


Now, if you go from HD-144s to HD-10s, this will be a different story. HD-10s are much bigger, and better, than HD-18s (even with an 8" tube).
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stefuel




Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, back to this blending crap.
Humor me. Shut off the blend zone. Put up a 100 IRE "full" white field. Stick your sensor dead center on both green lenses and report back the intensities. Ten bucks and my left one, says the left side is lower. If so, increase the left side to match the right and re-do the left calibration.

Why do I say this??? Cause when I look at your screen shots, the color looks OK but the overall contrast between the two looks off.
As everything revolves around the green, they have to match first. If you start with two greens that are putting out exactly the same amount. You are forced to add the correct amount of red and blue to each to hit their respective d6500 target.

Even if your meter is off, as long as they both match, they should be OK, at least for hiding the blend zone.

For now, I'm only interested in the results of the green test Wink

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A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels

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km987654




Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2852
Location: Australia

TV/Projector: Barco BG809s


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
JustGreg wrote:
I think I just peed myself a little! Laughing WOW! Thumbs Up



Thanks for the WOW Greg Its what I say each time i get closer to the final set up. I have been watching movies a lot lately.

I was almost going to take her down and go with a single 9500 and sell off the longbows. But with Bobs help and my tenacity
to push on I will get this nailed!!!

I set up the 9500LC i have on the floor last week for a few movies and realized an 8 inch blend blows away the single
9 inch. Even if stacked brightness is not the issue, clarity is what its all about and that film like image.

I think this week i will work on using the Contrast modulation as right now i am not using it. but i need to first get a little closer in matching up the IRE's. With a probe that I think is flaky and the D2 probe that is not 100% either its difficult to say weather or not i can trust the reading i am getting. But getting the xyY values as close as possible for 30 and 80 IRE on each pj got me that much closer. If I use the CMS in the lumagens to match each IRE i think that will help enormously.

I know having a pro do the set up would make this a done deal, but where is the fun in that? Wink

Athanasios



This is obviously a stupid question but whats wrong with these images?? I just can't see anything to worry about they look great to me. Thumbs Up

Or is this a case of "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" thing?
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incova




Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 789
Location: london


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 3:11 am    Post subject: great stuff Reply with quote

I am loving this thread, blend on the cheap, I should be in Athens in August, when are you going to Greece next?
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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 3:32 am    Post subject: Re: great stuff Reply with quote

incova wrote:
I am loving this thread, blend on the cheap, I should be in Athens in August, when are you going to Greece next?


i might go end of september to Thessaloniki. i might try to go to Athens and see Napos and possibly the new Marquee Greek guy Thanasi Pantazis.

There ares till some issues and not finished features with these units but they are pretty great for the money.

Athanasios

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Boilermaker




Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 527



PostLink    Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
There ares till some issues and not finished features with these units but they are pretty great for the money.



Athanasios - You are way too humble on this one!
I think that blending a pair of LC crt's is an all out assault on today's state of the art. That fact that it doesn't cost too much is just an added benefit.

Bob
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incova




Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 789
Location: london


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 10:30 pm    Post subject: when Reply with quote

we could meet maybe, lets see how it goes I go end of August
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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two 2004 VDC Marquee 8500 Ultra LongBow's
fed 1080p@72 between the both of them Via two Tv-one C2-2250's and two Lumagen HDQ's from the Oppo BDP 83 onto a 12 foot unity gain Hurley Screen.











Athanasios

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Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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Clarence




Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 3792
Location: Smith Mtn Lake, VA


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking really good!

I remember from Cliff's, the toughest scene to blend is a solid blue area, like a panning sky or the opening castle scene from a Disney movie.
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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Clarence !!!! Your right about that. The funny thing is if I put up a solid primary field of blue it looks the best at 100% stimulus , I never tried lower %'s. i'll have to look next time i am messing around.

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well zone contrast modulation is a Must!!!!!!

I know I always say this but this is the best for sure!! Just have to tweak out the 100 IRE gamma and a few spots in between.

I also have a slight linearity issue in the center. I messed something up when sitting on the remote with my fat ass and lost the settings and I never saved the file in the Marquee loader Sad

I also found that my DIY HCFR meter worked better in the low end with HCFR than CalMan or Chromapure and the i 1 Pro or my Chroma 5 probe. I say this cause it was more stable with in readings, not as much jumping around. id it is as accurate or not i can't say but Id rather have consistent readings in the low end then erratic.

The Radiance XS's also helped out more than you know and a PM from Ken Whitcomb to solidify and confirm my workflow process.

I used the radiance internal patterns in calman and the marquee controller program to first get 30 and 100 % windows close on each PJ. hen i went back and checked the 30 % window with Green only ad measured the luma, i moved the probe over and matched the other PJ's green 30 % luma. I then did the same with 100% green's luma, using G2 and Drive respectfully.

I then redid 30 and 100 % RGB in the PJ. now I moved to zone contrast, i set a 100% window and lowered contrast to
30 from 50. Here i used the marquee controller Program and did each color at the top , center and bottom edges where the blend zone would be. Blend zone is off of course and using a full field pattern. I did this on both PJ's. then I went back and raised contrast to 50 and then did the same thing in the zones but with white on not only each color and used the marquee controller program to do RGB contrast in each zone in the blend area. The Marquee controller program is awesome cause you never see any menu on the screen to contaminate your readings. You can select the zone to work on and the color to adjust all on one screen, just awesome!!!

After that was done I redid the center 30 and 100% white windows with the pattern not sized for the raster but put into full blend configuration but with the blend zone off. This put the window patterns in the center of the screen where the blend zone is. I put the probe there and redid the PJ RGB at those %'s mentioned above.

Once that was done i was surprised to see how well even with no radiance greyscale done the blend zone was!!!

So now I did the Greyscale interactive mode with CalMan v4.1 and the radiance XS. did that and getting 20 and 10 % sucks that way. Still got the erratic readings at 10 more than 20 so I decided to try my home made probe and HCFR and do it manually. I then adjusted Contrast and Brightness on both PJ's .

Got that done just now and took some pics Smile
















I used a gamma of 2.35 but have to tweak it out. I might try 2.25, or 2.3
and see how it all looks. But for now I am very happy.

EDIT, i didn't even do and Color adjustments Just greyscale!! Both PJ tracked the CIE chart almost the same,
I did not measure RGBCMY luminance though as that will also help.

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

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Last edited by Nashou66 on Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24296
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the terms of suckage, this ranks right up there. Wink

Good work! YOU SUCK! Smile
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overclkr




Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4227



PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking good!
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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

overclkr wrote:
Looking good!


Thanks Cliff!

And thanks for the link!
It was perfect !!!

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26690
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gee I'd like to see that Wink
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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

See ya tomorrow Jeremy!!

the theater is still in shambles though. I'm not that much of a neat freak. I need to work on that. Very Happy

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
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