Return to the CurtPalme.com main site CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum
A forum with a sense of fun and community for Home Theater enthusiasts!
Products for Sale ] [ FAQ: Hooking it all up ] [ CRT Primer/FAQ ] [ Best/Worst CRT Projectors List ] [ Setup Tips & Manuals ] [ Advanced Procedures ] [ Newsletters ]

 
Forum FAQForum FAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist  Photo AlbumsPhoto Albums  RegisterRegister 
 MembershipClub Membership   ProfileProfile   Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in 
Blu-ray disc release list and must-have titles. Buy the latest and best Blu-ray titles to show off in your home theater!


CRT suggestion for retro room
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    CurtPalme.com Forum Index -> CRT Projectors
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
nin



Joined: 01 Mar 2012
Posts: 18



PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:20 am    Post subject: CRT suggestion for retro room Reply with quote


        Register to remove this ad. It's free!
Hi guys.

I'm moving to a much bigger house and have soon the space to have a retro room for old analog video and gaming. I have some CRT TV's but I is thinking about maybe I could use a CRT projector instead. Here is my plan.

-I will only have old analog video system, like VHS, betamax, video 2000 (european system), laserdisc.
-I will only have old gaming system, like NES, SNES, Sega mega drive, PS1.

I want a great picture that are "forgiven" for the analog problems these old system have.
I do prefer a projector that are easy to set-up, hold the settings, are reasonably silent and are reliable over "top image quality".
Screen size depends how big I can get without the inherent image problems these format have would "take over" the viewing experience. The room is about 16,5 feet long.

So, what should you guys recommend?
What kind of projector? 7, 8, or even 9 inch?
What kind of scaler would work best on all analog video? DVDO VP-30? VP-50? Other?
What kind of projector do old game system best, with RGB and with nice scanlines?

Any other suggestions or things you think I should take into account?

Thanks in advance

Mattias
Sweden
Back to top
garyfritz



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 10760
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:31 am    Post subject: Re: CRT suggestion for retro room Reply with quote

nin wrote:
I do prefer a projector that are easy to set-up, hold the settings, are reasonably silent and are reliable over "top image quality".

You might try to find a Dwin HD700. It uses ES (electrostatic) focusing, so it's not as sharp as the larger EM-focus projectors. But for retro gaming you don't need HD. The Dwin is small, light, basically totally silent, and it throws a nice picture.

The only one on ebay right now is asking $750, but that's nuts. In today's market I wouldn't pay more than $100-$200, and that only if they've upgraded the lenses to color-filtered. (But again, you don't really need that for retro gaming.)

Shipping will be a bigger cost, but the Dwin is small enough that shipping isn't the challenge/expense that it is with the larger projectors. You can ship it in a well-padded box, instead of on a pallet.
Back to top
nin



Joined: 01 Mar 2012
Posts: 18



PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw that one. So a, for example, a Barco 808/cine 8 would be overkill? I have no problem with a "sharp CRT" picture, so I see the softer image from analog sources. I just don't want the digital "sharpness" that seem to highlight the analog probmes. Like my Sony HW-55 does.
Back to top
Curt Palme
CRT Tech


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 23813
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankly I'd only get a 9" set at this point. There's absolutely zero parts left for DWIN, I think I have one power supply left), and I've dumped almost all parts for 8" sets as well.

A Marquee 9500 (or 8500 if you can find one for almost free), a BArco 1209s or BArco 909 would be the only way to go.

Also, I just got word that I am getting in a bunch of Barco 909s in sometime this summer that I will be selling for peanuts (relatively speaking), which is the best CRT projector out there. Guessing around $1000 or so, working, but as-is, or around $1500 with good used tubes installed (if the sets need them). They are coming out of a planetarium, so they were usually projecting black, so no wear on the tubes when projecting blacks)

For a scaler, only look at Lumagen at this point.
Back to top
nin



Joined: 01 Mar 2012
Posts: 18



PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curt, sounds interesting with Barco 909. They are not too sharp for VHS? And how is the fans on those?

What Lumagen have many analog inputs and are really good for analog video?
Back to top
garyfritz



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 10760
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No question the 909 is a great projector. But for retro gaming?? That's like buying a Ferrari to drive to your mailbox! Laughing

The 909 is also 3x bigger and 3x heavier than the Dwin, and a LOT noisier.

I don't doubt you about parts, Curt. But you could just keep an eye out for another Dwin and use it for a parts mule...

nin, if you think you might watch some movies, then the 909 makes a lot more sense.
Back to top
nin



Joined: 01 Mar 2012
Posts: 18



PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gary, I will use the projector for 90% movies and 10% gaming. The highest resolution format I will use is NTSC laserdisc but mostly it is VHS and betamax tapes.
Back to top
gjaky



Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2674
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Gary has the point.
Adding a scaler to your sources would result in a digital like picture, that's what Sony does as well.
As for the 909 it does not even accept PAL or NTSC signals, as the minimum scan frequency is 32kHz.
A Barco 808 or a Marquee 8500 would be a good starter, if they have good tubes.

_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB
Back to top
View user's photo album (1 photos)
pj-toso



Joined: 19 Mar 2015
Posts: 61
Location: Norway - Oppland


PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would get a good condtion Sony D50 looks extremely good with Standard Defintion-material. Get one with the internal line-doubler.

I had it in 1998 and used with VHS, Laserdiscs and DVD. I was very happy. Color-filtered red and green. Easy to set-up. Not that big, and a nice designed unit.

_________________
Disclaimer: My postings are subjective and not facts.
Back to top
nin



Joined: 01 Mar 2012
Posts: 18



PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe a line doubler or quadrupler is the way to go for this project.
What is the better line doubler/quadrupler on the market?

I would guess I should use the line doubler/quadrupler with my NTSC/PAL SD analog video formats, and use the RGB output from the retro consols straight to the projector (without the doubler).
Back to top
AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25555
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the old SONY's for retro gaming, analog and 15Khz signals only but may be able to do 288p, which is what the NES's put out. Like a SONY 1031. 1040. That on a high gain screen would be cool for sure and very retro. SOME 1031's can also fo 1080i.

For movies though a better projector would be in order. So a Barco 808 may fit well there. If not having the major scan lines of 288p is not important to you and you intend to scale all the incoming sources then a better projector should be fine.
You may want to invest in a quad standard decoder for the VHS/Betamax/LD sources those are some of the difficult sources to have displayed at 576i directly into the projector. I find often times a video tape signal refuses to sync with a projector. The quad standard decoder will convert S-video or CVBS into RGBHV at 15Khz then a scaler can take that and bump it up to a scaled resolution.

Not sure which scaler has a good analog input section. If you can find one you could do away with the Quad Standard Decoder.

I did a bunch of playing with the Playstation 2, SCART cables, quad standard decoder(s)with my SONY D50. It looked good at 480i but I needed to add a high gain screen then test the light gun games again. With a Studio Tek 1.30 gain the gun wouldn't register a hit. I did pick up a SONY 15 gain screen just never got a chance to use it.

_________________
Tech support for nothing

CRT.

HD done right!
Back to top
View user's photo album (27 photos)
nin



Joined: 01 Mar 2012
Posts: 18



PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So lets say a system with the DWIN HD-700 + a line doubler.
Pros:
-Silent
-Small
-Good SD image.

So when playing analog SD video like VHS and laserdisc, I will use the line doubler for a scanline free image and no "digital" image problem that maybe a scaler would introduce?
When playing old consols, I just use the RGB signal and get the scanline it should have.

What would a Barco 808 or even 909, do better for these sources? Pros and cons.
Back to top
AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25555
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sharper scan lines from 808 and 909. Not as quiet as the Dwin though.

I use to run a line doubler on my SONY D50. VHS woulnd't sync. Which is why I used the QS decoder. Also tried one of those external video stabilizer boxes in line to the doubler. It was somewhat helpful.

_________________
Tech support for nothing

CRT.

HD done right!
Back to top
View user's photo album (27 photos)
Curt Palme
CRT Tech


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 23813
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note that the DWIN will not do 480i (composite), it needs at least a line doubler to upscale the image to 480p. IN the last year that I did sell them about 5 years ago, they got very unreliable due to age, so it's highly NOT recommended.

If you want an ES focusing set (read the FAQ on the main site to familiarize yourself with sets), then go for a Sony 12XX set. A bit noisy, but generally bulletproof. I also threw out all parts for those a few years ago, but I'll bet a forum member has one somewhere.

Sony D50s have super short tube life, I got lots in, but since the tubes were unique to the D50, I threw a lot of those out as well. The chassis is super reliable though.

If you don't want the sharpness of an EM set, then you can always defocus it a bit to mimic the softer image of an ES set.
Back to top
AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25555
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a total retro feel try this:


sony_kp5010.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  92.46 KB
 Viewed:  4119 Time(s)

sony_kp5010.jpg



_________________
Tech support for nothing

CRT.

HD done right!
Back to top
View user's photo album (27 photos)
nin



Joined: 01 Mar 2012
Posts: 18



PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the Sony kp5010 looks really cool and would fit the feeling I want in the room. But I guess it don't will give the image quality I want.
Back to top
nin



Joined: 01 Mar 2012
Posts: 18



PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curt Palme wrote:
Note that the DWIN will not do 480i (composite), it needs at least a line doubler to upscale the image to 480p. IN the last year that I did sell them about 5 years ago, they got very unreliable due to age, so it's highly NOT recommended.

If you want an ES focusing set (read the FAQ on the main site to familiarize yourself with sets), then go for a Sony 12XX set. A bit noisy, but generally bulletproof. I also threw out all parts for those a few years ago, but I'll bet a forum member has one somewhere.

Sony D50s have super short tube life, I got lots in, but since the tubes were unique to the D50, I threw a lot of those out as well. The chassis is super reliable though.

If you don't want the sharpness of an EM set, then you can always defocus it a bit to mimic the softer image of an ES set.


Thanks Curt. Reliability is high on my list so I would guess the DWIN is no good.

I have no problem with sharpness, I like it. The problem I have is when I play VHS on my SD PAL CRT tv-set, I can get nice quality (for it size). But when I try my Sony HW-55 (or before that one, Panasonic 4000, Sony Ruby) the image looks not so good. The problems in analog video that CRT hids or don't highlighting, are very disturbing with modern digital projectors. Heck, even VHS/LD straight in my Barco 801 15 years ago, scanlines aside, did look better than the same on any digital projector I have used.

Right now, my retroroom is small. Very small. I sit around 70 inch away from my 32 inch 4:3 CRT SD TV and it is a good size for the viewing distance and the analog sources.
But now, with my new home I will have a much bigger space. I would guess I wll have a viewing distance of 160-165 inches. And a 32 inch TV will be rather small on those distances. That is why I'm thinking about a CRT projector. Plus, it will fit well in a room with only old stuff like VHS, betamax, laserdisc, Nintendo 8-16 bits, sega mega drive, pinball, turntable and maybe a tube amplifier, and stuff like that. So that it look "old" is maybe not a problem but rather a plus for me. I like the thought of a recreation room that looks like something that could be "high-tech" in the 60's-70's. Like the Hef picture.

The room will not be a "home theater". It will be rather white and have a fireplace and stuff like that.



hef.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  75.37 KB
 Viewed:  4098 Time(s)

hef.jpg


Back to top
nin



Joined: 01 Mar 2012
Posts: 18



PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And when I talk about VHS, betamax, I talk about tapes that are 35-40 years old. I collect early rentaltapes of horror, action and other crazy stuff. So 4:3 works perfectly.
Back to top
nin



Joined: 01 Mar 2012
Posts: 18



PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is how the room look like now (the pictures is from the real estate agent).


Gille1.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  212.23 KB
 Viewed:  4085 Time(s)

Gille1.jpg



Gille2.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  204.4 KB
 Viewed:  4085 Time(s)

Gille2.jpg


Back to top
nin



Joined: 01 Mar 2012
Posts: 18



PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now to my expertise in paint Laughing
How to make a big hush box "disappear" in the room?
Maybe to use it as a stand for a Foosball table!?

How much bigger than the projector does a hush box be to work like it should?



Gille1projector2.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  317.96 KB
 Viewed:  4083 Time(s)

Gille1projector2.jpg


Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    CurtPalme.com Forum Index -> CRT Projectors All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum