CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

**Curt Palme**

A bunch of you that have been following high end projectors probably know that the Sony G90 has been long heralded as one of the 'holy grail' projectors when it comes to image and performance. I personally have seen Cliff's G90 stack, and it is nothing short of awesome.

Some of you also probably know that these G90s are now starting to fail, a number of faults which can be repaired just like with any other CRT projector. What you might not know is that the G90 suffers from a somewhat common problem, that one of the D/A converter chips on the main CPU board fails, rendering the set useless, as that chip controls all functions within the set (brightness, contrast, convergence, focus, etc).

I know of at least 6 sets out there right now that are down due to this chip, and .... Sony has discontinued this chip!

From what I've gathered, Sony only made that chip for the G90, and no other manufacturer has this chip available. Therefore, there are 6 sets out there destined for the scrap heap.

I've long bitched about the disposability of electronics, but considering that the G90 was only put out of production in 2004, and its retail value at the time was $38,000 USD, this takes things to a new level. from what little I understand about laws regarding parts, Sony might even be in legal trouble as I believe for commercial/industrial products, parts need to be available for 7 years after the last production date. At least that's BArco's attitude.

What I'd like to do is write the above into my monthly newsletter, and provide the 12,000+ readers with some key email addresses to some high up muckimucks at Sony, so that we can voice our displeasure regarding this lack of customer support by Sony.

The details of the above are outlined in this thread:

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8507&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=200

Now, let's face it, money talks in these tough times. Sony is already in financial trouble, so a few 100 emails to some sales reps from us might just get their attention, if we threaten to spread the word to not buy Sony product.

Supposedly a couple of kids did it to Apple regarding nonreplacable Ipod batteries some years ago, let's do it to Sony!

Anyone with key email addresses, please post them here, I'll put together a nice strong legal letter that people can cut and paste if they are too lazy to write their own. Smile

Thanks!

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

I'm In !! I knew there was some type of law for providing replacement parts after production stops. Type up the letter and let begin!!!

Athanasios

HaydnG90 · Joined: 22 May 2006 Posts: 1335

Since I'm one of the known 'unfortunates' in this situation, I'm happy to send out as many emails, to as many people, as it takes. Is there written evidence confirming the G90 was taken out of production in 2004? There ought to be some legal recourse on that count alone. Afterall these are not $1000 'disposable' digitals we're dealing with here.

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:47 pm Post subject:

I've considered buying a G90 a few times. I've been playing wait and see while part's get scarcer. I remember when Curt announced he now ( finally ) had G90 test chassis. That's when I was about to jump in. Then I started hearing about non-repairable boards and proprietary Sony chips so I put the brakes on.

We need to get these chips, a decent supply of them too. Even all the tech specks in full so we can get another manufacturer to make them. Something Rolling Eyes

emdawgz1 · Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 7949

I'm in. I want me a G90 BAD!!!

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:57 pm Post subject:

Do we have a lawyer in the house that can research whether there's a 7 year parts availability rule on something like this? Consumer stuff, I can see why the rule might not apply, but the G90 was also marketed through the broadcast division of SOny....

HaydnG90 · Joined: 22 May 2006 Posts: 1335

Not exactly the names and numbers we need but a start. This is the center that was repairing the YA boards until the parts dried up. Apparently 30 of the chips in question had been ordered and distributed, I assume to service centers, in the last few years, suggesting that the 6 broken boards here are the tip of the iceberg....

Sony Electronics
2520 Zanker Rd. MD #ZNK5
San Jose, CA 95131
Tel: (408) 352-8282
Fax: (408) 352-8283

Thanks,

Wing N. Tseung
Sony Electronics
(408) 352-8228

NB: I believe Wing is the general manager.

mp20748 · Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:07 pm Post subject:

ecrabb · Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:12 pm Post subject:

emdawgz1 · Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 7949

Isnt there some way to reverse engineer the chip??? It'd be easier that pushing sony to do anything.

HaydnG90 · Joined: 22 May 2006 Posts: 1335

Maybe worth cross posting this on AVS and some of the other HT sites like hometheaterforum.com

macgyver655 · Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 8508

In my conversation with Wing he said that the CXD number was not a true sony number and suggested searching via that number which I told him I already did. Problem is from my experience Sony was the only one using chips with those types of numbers. I agree with MP in that this is a fairly common part in its use and I would almost bet that the manufacturer made lots of these chips and just stamped them differently for who was buying them. Problem is, without a datasheet its almost impossible to cross reference. I remember a while ago attempting to cross it with vague info. Maybe I'll give that a shot again.

Finding the actual chip maker would be a big advantage. Anybody know the chip manufacturers in Spain?

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:18 pm Post subject:

Geez, this feels like you're dissecting the chip down to a substrate level. Wink

Next thing you know, you'll be filing down the chip to duplicate the substrate itself. I remember back in the day guys would do that to the Pay TV decoder boxes to bypass them..

incova · Joined: 27 Nov 2006 Posts: 789 Location: london

Hi Curt, You stated that the G90 was 38k in 2004, this is the price of a car as far as I know, may I suggest you check cases relating to this type of price bracket, would they for example be able to get away with this is say this was a car. Say the car did not work if the ECU went, could the manufacturer just stop production of the ECU with no recourse for the buyer as the ECU is not built by anyone else. Thats crazy, even if it was a 1000 usd pj I would be pissed, also, this is a common fault, you have to question why Sony has stopped production of a chip they probably know is failing, thats right I do not trust or like sony. here is a class action case that I think I would use in relation to this case.

this is the case :
http://www.news-star.com/localnews/x282407148/Supreme-court-affirms-local-lawsuit-against-car-manufacturer-as-class-action

what the article stated.

The Oklahoma Supreme Court recently upheld a national class-action lawsuit originally certified in Pottawatomie County District Court, paving the way for a Shawnee woman’s case against a car manufacturer to proceed as class action. The outcome of the case could affect the owners of about 1.5 million vehicles.
Local attorneys Terry West and Brad West filed the class-action lawsuit, which alleges that a series of DaimlerChrysler automobiles have a defective steering system that can fail, causing the driver to lose control of the vehicle.
Plaintiff Rhonda Masquat’s suit, originally filed Jan. 28, 2005, alleges there was a defect in the power rack and pinion steering system in vehicles sold as the Dodge Intrepid and Eagle Vision, along with the Chrysler models of New Yorker, Concord and 300M made from 1993 through most of 2001. Masquat’s case centers on a 1994 Dodge Intrepid she purchased in 1999 and made repairs to a year later.
In 2007, Pottawatomie County District Court certified her lawsuit as class action by consolidating the claims, which could affect more than 1.5 million vehicles, Brad West said.
DaimlerChrysler appealed that decision with the Oklahoma Supreme Court. The Wests argued that the corporation recognized the problem as early as 2000 and even designed a repair for it, but never advised vehicle owners of the problem or the repair, which costs about $300 if owners pay for it themselves, Brad West said.
The Oklahoma Supreme Court upheld the local court’s decision, so the case will proceed to trial, focusing on the claims of Masquat as class representative.
Her case will be binding on all remaining members of the class, Brad West said. The case seeks to require DaimlerChrysler to repair the defective steering systems and repay those car owners, like Masquat, who undertook the cost of repair themselves, Brad West said.
The Wests maintained all along that District Judge Douglas Combs’ decision to make this a class-action suit was correct.
“Oklahoma law supported his decision and, from a consumer protection standpoint, it was the right decision,” Brad West said. “Economically, there is no way, absent the class-action type case, that an individual consumer with a defective product could take on a company like DaimlerChrysler when their problem only amounts to a few hundred dollars. So we were very happy to be able to help in that respect.”
The next court date for this case hasn’t yet been scheduled.

I am sure this car was cheaper than the g90. Has anyone got the original g90 adverts, what do they state or imply as to durability, In the Uk the law has changed somewhat and basically the item has to be fit for purpose and so should last a certain amount of time. This is a little from UK law.

How long should it last?

Durability

Durability is another recent addition to the definition of quality. How long should a dishwasher or a vacuum cleaner or a printer last? This is a very common source of complaint and one which manufacturers were always quick to turn back on the consumer, requiring them to provide proof that the item did not conform to contract specification from the start, or implying an element of misuse or neglect. Thanks to the new European Regulations, UK law now offers greater protection for consumers against products which develop faults within the first 6 months. The assumption is now that if it breaks down within this time period it cannot have conformed to the contract specification when purchased and you have the right to an automatic repair or replacement. Having said this, items which should last several years can still break down after this six month period. If the retailer or manufacturer’s warranty has run out, the shop is often quick to say there is nothing they can do before attempting to sell you an extended warranty. This is misleading. If you buy something which should last 7 years but breaks down after a year and a day, you can still claim it was of poor quality in reference to the durability aspect. In this respect it will help to know how long items such as washing machines or printers should last. You can get this information relevant trade association

I can’t get spares

It could be that due to the discontinuation of something you have recently bought, you can no longer get your hands on spare parts, rendering it un-fixable. Unfortunately there is no legal obligation for a manufacturer in this regard, although there are some trade associations who require their members to ensure products are not rendered useless due to the absence of spare parts.

This is UK law I hope there is better spare parts law in the U.S, hope I have helped.

stefuel · Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:06 am Post subject:

Who's law applies. If they were manufactured In Japan or meheeeco would stateside law apply?
My AmPro is still humming along Thumbs Up

jask · Joined: 17 Mar 2006 Posts: 10165 Location: kamloops BC

I would contact Sony and see if they would assign the use of the design/manufacturing rights to you in exchange for your support of these "legacy" products. If they are willing you would have access to the OEM manufacturer and they could give you an idea of the cost on a small run of these. Point out that other Manufacturers are also sending customers to you as a recommended service center.

Mr. Green · Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:50 am Post subject:

stefuel · Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:12 am Post subject:

I think time would be best spent trying to locate the schematic of the chip. Then send it to as many of the chip manufaturers as you can think of. Someone will recognize it and come back with "hey, I've got 500 of them right in front of me and you can have them if you can tell me what the square root of 69 is?"

Tinman · Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:14 am Post subject:

Well, this of course does nothing to help, but I recall preaching about this long ago on AVS regarding the G90.

This is how SONY works.

Hope you guys can get satisfaction. Best of luck.

Curt, please give me the part number and the actual chip number, would ya? I'll see if I can come up with anything on this end.

HaydnG90 · Joined: 22 May 2006 Posts: 1335