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overclkr
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4227
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 Link Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| wallace123456 wrote: | | overclkr wrote: | | wallace123456 wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | BTW, getting back to the title of this thread.. I'd change the word 'special' to one in quotations.
Why? Because putting a digital in a room with a G90 stack is akin to bringing a whore to a black tie affair.  |
I agree. It's like an "oxy-moron". Jumbo shrimp? Digital and g90 stack?
wallace |
What's up big dog! I still have the little bugger here and need to take some screenshots for you guys hopefully in the next couple of days.
Nice little machine for the price. Great motion (doesn't suffer from the slow panels like in the RS1), has very close to RS1 brightness without the bright corners at 0 ire, very sharp, respectable (not even close to crt), but respectable blacks.
If the economy didn't suck so bad right now, I'd get one to use for every day viewing for sure!!!!!
Cliffy |
Not much. SOS  . Don't get used to that thing. Or better yet, watch it for a good long time, then, turn the stack back on.  It'll make you be thankful for the stack.... 
We need to hook up soon.
wallace |
Yes we do. I might be coming your way sooner than you think. 
Some screenshots from the AE3000:
Cliffy
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Location: West Seneca NY
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
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Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Link Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:57 am Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | I hate to say it, not bad at all.
Athanasios |
I was thinking the same thing....Glad you said it first.
Mike
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Link Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:12 am Post subject: |
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I see too much green in the low brightness areas in the first 4 pix. Is that the camera, the movie or the projector?
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Gino
Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 1363
Location: Trinity Beach, AUSTRALIA
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| Link Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:37 am Post subject: |
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It's certainly a nice projector for the price, I was actually thinking of picking one up myself after seeing Andres' AE2000
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overclkr
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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| Link Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | I see too much green in the low brightness areas in the first 4 pix. Is that the camera, the movie or the projector? |
It's the movie. 
Cliffy
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overclkr
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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| Link Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:45 am Post subject: |
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| Gino wrote: | | It's certainly a nice projector for the price, I was actually thinking of picking one up myself after seeing Andres' AE2000 |
I hate to say it but I'm shocked. Don't get me wrong, this ain't no G90 stack but damn dude. Not bad at all.
Just so you get an idea, those pics were taken from the same spot that I take my G90 shots.
I couldn't do that with the RS1.
The panels on this unit are MUCH MUCH improved in the motion department. The frame interpolation feature is kick ass. I love it.
Makes you think a bit huh?
Hope all is well with you my friend.
Cliffy
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timf
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 102
Location: Adelaide South Australia
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| Link Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:20 am Post subject: |
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I've been looking at the dark side ever since the RS20/HD750 was released, I am of the understanding that the RS20 exceeds the Panasonic unit above in pq so if the pics Cliffy shows are going to be better on a JVC unit then .....hmmmmmmm
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10273
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| Link Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:12 am Post subject: |
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The problem with screen captures is that everyone looking at them will have greatly different viewing conditions, setups, and realities. Also, its one thing to see good ANSI contrast play on one's perceived black perceptions and another to measure it outright. While I like the aspect of good ANSI contrast, my concern was with generating good ANSI contrast by attempting to modulate the light source that effective impacts the entire picture.
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5238
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Link Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| WanMan wrote: | | The problem with screen captures is that everyone looking at them will have greatly different viewing conditions, setups, and realities. Also, its one thing to see good ANSI contrast play on one's perceived black perceptions and another to measure it outright. While I like the aspect of good ANSI contrast, my concern was with generating good ANSI contrast by attempting to modulate the light source that effective impacts the entire picture. |
I would agree with you except the person doing the review is Cliff....He has a very good eye for these things, if it was crap he would tell us. That being said I would not base a purchase decision on a screen shot but the detail looks really good, better then most of my screen shots.
A few owners have complained about dust blobs, I have no idea what that is or if it's something that is fixable by an end user. I would be nice to see how one of these look after 1000+ hours and a couple of bulb changes.
Mike
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WTS
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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Location: Calgary
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| Link Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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THere's the $3,000 question, how will they look after a few bulb changes and 3000+ hrs on them. I'd hate to think a $3000 piece of gear is a throw-away after a few bulbs. I see the new Epson has a 4000hr bulb in it or so they claim.
I must say the pics look nice but not much detail in the blacks, like the backside of him in a few pics or the light post.
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Walter
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Link Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| WTS wrote: | THere's the $3,000 question, how will they look after a few bulb changes and 3000+ hrs on them. I'd hate to think a $3000 piece of gear is a throw-away after a few bulbs. I see the new Epson has a 4000hr bulb in it or so they claim.
I must say the pics look nice but not much detail in the blacks, like the backside of him in a few pics or the light post. |
I agree with Walt on the age thing, at least with our CRT's we know how they look after 20,000 hours or so on the chasis and after a new tube change, exactly the same as they did when new and if a capacitor or resistor goes south just change it. With Digital's bulb changes at first bring it back to almots new but as heat affects the panels they will break down and loose their original sharpness and punch. Unfortunately we will never be able to evaluate a 10,000 + hour chassis of a digital PJ, I dont think they will last that long, anyone have a high hour digital over 5000-6000 hours? I had one of the first 1.78 panel Digitals the Sony W400Q that had those hexagonal pixels, it looked great at 1080i(actually 1025 the japan standard) but after 600 hours i got a pink hue, that is when i began looking at CRT.
Athanasios
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VideoGrabber
Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 933
Location: Michigan
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| Link Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:14 am Post subject: |
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Walter commented:
> I must say the pics look nice but not much detail in the blacks, like the backside of him in a few pics or the light post. <
Agreed, although there's no way of knowing if this is a PJ or camera thing. We can't tell if the camera is making things look better, or worse. Also, the chroma is cranked too high... unless people you know have a radioactive orange glow to their faces.
Lastly, if these pix were coming from a CRT, people would be all "wow!" and "holy sh*t!".
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Link Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:24 am Post subject: |
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| WanMan wrote: | | While I like the aspect of good ANSI contrast, my concern was with generating good ANSI contrast by attempting to modulate the light source that effective impacts the entire picture. |
This post demonstrates that you do not know what ANSI CR is.
ANSI CR is inherent to the panel/light engine design--irises and modulating light sources cannot effect it. They only effect on/off CR. The ANSI is always the same regardless of the scene. DLP is still the ANSI king, no DI or light source tricks can improve the ANSI CR of a projector.
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Link Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:34 am Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: |
With Digital's bulb changes at first bring it back to almots new but as heat affects the panels they will break down and loose their original sharpness and punch. Unfortunately we will never be able to evaluate a 10,000 + hour chassis of a digital PJ, I dont think they will last that long, anyone have a high hour digital over 5000-6000 hours? |
Panels cannot loose sharpness due to age. If a 3 panel design and they moved with regard to each other due to age (which I've never heard of).
LCDs are by far the weakest of the digital technologies with regard to longevity. Until recently they used organic panels which did not last long at all. The inorganic panels should last much longer, but there are still several problems inherent with LCD with regard to longevity.
Given the rapid technological advancements in digital projection technology, it simply wasn't "worth it" to keep one going. I do know of some super high hour business projectors, but no sure about HT. We are probably just hitting the point were the technology is good enough that it is worth keeping them going for several years. I'd say a life of 8-10 years is acceptable and for most projectors that is probably considerably less than 10,000 hours (that is 4 hours of use every single day for almost 8 years and few projectors see that much use).
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Dave
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Link Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:38 am Post subject: |
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| overclkr wrote: | | Don't get me wrong, this ain't no G90 stack but damn dude. Not bad at all. |
I'd love to see a double-blind test of:
- G90 stack
- AE3000
- RS20
- Marantz 15s1
I think many my be surprised at the results.
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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WTS
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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Location: Calgary
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| Link Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:46 am Post subject: |
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and the winner would be? Dave care to take a guess.
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Walter
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Person99
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| Link Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:57 am Post subject: |
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| WTS wrote: | | and the winner would be? Dave care to take a guess. |
Depends upon how many and who is in the room and the variety of content (and which content they like). People that liked the "pop" of high ANSI CR would pick the Marantz. Others liking more the "film" look would gravitate toward the G90s or the RS20. It is really a toss up which would win.
I personally think the 3000 would finish last, but I honestly think it would not be that far behind which is saying alot for a PJ that cost just a bit over $2000 in a room full of PJs that run over double its price.
If you've only got about $2300 to spend, the 3000 does make a compelling case. I really dig the fact also that it is the first digital that can do a CIA set up. But, dust blobs and other LCD-specific issues do worry me with LCDs.
Thank god you can turn off the awful frame interpolation on it though--if you couldn't, it would be a non-starter.
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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WTS
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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Location: Calgary
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| Link Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:20 am Post subject: |
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That would be my problem, I would need one close to the CRT experience, there's just something about it that seems so natural compared to the others.
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Walter
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timf
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 102
Location: Adelaide South Australia
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| Link Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:26 am Post subject: |
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Dave, you seem to have more than just a basic understanding of the digital realm and from what I can gather on previous posts was once a CRT'er and switched to digital for what ever reason.
The shoot out you mentioned above wants to compare several digitals to the likes of a G90 which I am of the understanding is meant to be the "king" of CRT pj.
Would it be a fair assumption to make that if an RS20 could possibly go head to head with a G90 that it would literally blow a BD808 unit out of the water as far as pq is concerned?
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