CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

draganm · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado

I know half the folks here are running some cheap yard-sale speakers and that's OK. however I know a lot of you are running some pretty high end towers, especially Kal. Wink

These types of speakers almost always have a bi-wire option. In other words 2 sets of binding post (maybe more) connected by a brass bridging strap. You can remove the strap and run each driver with a separate amp (bi-amping). OR, have a common wire at a single amp and then run multiple cables from there to each terminal (bi-wire).
Critic's say this can't possibly make a difference because all the wires share a common termination at the amp (pic). Proponents say it works and changes the sound from the speaker for various reasons.
So my question is, do you bi-wire? if not or if so explain why or choose a poll answer.

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

I do not have them but auditioned some B&W 805's they were bi wired . I asked the awesome guys at the Speaker Shop here in Buffalo what the difference was and if there was any benefit. They said We'll let you be the judge. So they let me listen to my Sqeeze Vinyl greates hits on the super cool 6 inch thick glass turn table set up they had through Pass 400 watt mono blocks, i forgot the needle but it was 2500 alone!! well back tot he speakers and bi wire. they sent me out of the room and told me to come back in in about 10 minutes. They did not tell me which way they were connected and to listen, first off the 805 are just awesome and the pass amps are unreall, i was impressed no matter what. then they sent me out again , came back and listened to the same tracks, it was still awesome but wasn't the same. I asked them which was the bi wired and as i suspected it was the first setup. it was just more dimensional the depth of the soundstage was more defined . I really liked it and have since longed for a set of 805's.

Athanasios

draganm · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado

rabies_70 · Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:47 pm Post subject:

I've got my Polk Rti12's Bi amped now and I would not do it any other way. 200w hi 200w lo. I did try Bi wiring and I could tell a slight difference but when I bi amped is when these speakers really came alive. For all the other channels in my setup each one has it's own amp now. The sound is very impressive and definitely better than the receiver/amp combo I started with.

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

I agree ray, Bi amp is the way to go if you have bi wire capable speakers. I auditioned them that way too but did not mention this since it wasn't what the poll was about. Way better than Bi Wired.

Athanasios

**kal** · Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:31 pm Post subject:

I bi-wire all of my speakers (Paradigm Signature S8 fronts, C5 center, ADP surrounds). Mostly because it was so cheap to do with the Home Depot 12 gauge wire I use and takes the gauge down to around 9 thus reducing the resistance in addition to any sonic benefits. My runs are all around 50 feet long.

Does it sound any different? No idea. Was only about $100 more to do so I just did it.

Kal

draganm · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado

Mark_A_W · Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:19 am Post subject:

Active bi-amping makes a difference (I have an active crossover setup).

Passive bi-wiring just reduces DC resistance. It is a huge load of crap.

ecrabb · Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:46 am Post subject:

Passive bi-wiring would offer no benefit that using a comparable larger-gauge single run would. As Kal mentioned, his two runs of 12-gauge might be equivalent to one run of 9-gauge. The same thing could be accomplished by simply using one run of 10-gauge. Of course, there's no reason to do that unless you're driving very low-impedance loads and the runs are something like 60 feet+.

Dragan... Here we go again. WTH is "audio-specific" wire and how did you arrive at $2? What, is that the least amount of money that a audio snob can bear to spend on speaker wires because psychologically, anything cheaper is by definition junk? I suppose you'll now suggest that the cheapest $2/foot "audio-specific" speaker wire will certainly sound better than the $0.61/ft Belden 5000UE (12-guage) I installed in my HT, right?

Sigh.

SC

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:18 am Post subject:

Person99 · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4901 Location: Flower Mound, TX

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:19 pm Post subject:

My only beef with bi (or tri) amping in the consumer world is that a lot of tweeters can't take a lot of abuse. If you cross over say at 3Khz or so, and you turn your system off in the wrong order, you can get a large 'POP' through the power amp, which can take out a tweeter. I've seen that happen both in large commercial installs as well as home installations.

rabies_70 · Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:58 pm Post subject:

Curt, I'm glad you just posted that because it addresses one of my current concerns regarding bi-amping my new rear channels. Polk LSiFX here are the specs

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject:

Tweets need literally no power, say under 2-3 watts? <edit>, that is assuming something like a typical home stereo dome tweeter, and say a 3-4 Khz crossover, at typical listening levels. THe bass and mids takes all of the power, highs take almost nothing.

Power rating of speakers is VERY ambiguous. You can actually do more damage with too little power to woofers rather than too much. Clip an amp, and you can blow a woofer if the amp clips hard. Clipping will also take out tweeters easily. In my audio repair shop days, we saw far more speakers blown due to clipping than to straight overdriving due to too much clean power.

ecrabb · Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:09 pm Post subject:

Yep. Tweeters are very commonly damaged due to lack of power and the resultant amplifier clipping and the DC current the clipping creates. My M&K 750THX's are only "rated" for 200w, yet I'm driving them with about 300w of clean power. I can run the system right to about 105db in the room without any clipping. Unless I got REALLY carried away, I could much more easily damage the speakers with a 90w receiver than I could with the 300w Crowns.

Ray... Personally, unless you have time and money to burn, I wouldn't waste either bi-amping surrounds. Maybe if everything else in your room and system were tweaked to the max and you considered the surrounds the last weak link... maybe... The information typically contained in the surrounds is almost always ambiance - environmental sounds - noises. Do you really care that the crowd cheering or some explosion echo effects are 2% cleaner? If you don't believe me, disconnect or turn off the mains and just listen to some movie stuff with only the surrounds playing, and tell me again you're going to worry about bi-amping THAT.

I don't know about your priorities, but I have about 37 other things I'd rather spend the time and money on in my room to make the system a better system before I'd worry about bi-amping surrounds. Acoustic treatments? Hush box? Bass trapping? Better mains amps and wiring? Best source(s) and processing you can afford? I'd do ALL that stuff before I bi-amped surrounds.

Mains are a totally different story.

SC

rabies_70 · Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:23 pm Post subject:

Mr Crabb, as per usual the voice of reason. Thanks again. It's always nice to have someone slap you back to reality. I love the hey Dumbass ( my embellishment of self deprecating adjective) do you really care if the crowd sounds are 2% cleaner. I am sitting here laughing so hard I can barely see the screen whilst I type. I am quite certain you just saved me a buttload of money and time so I reckon once again I find myself owing you beer.

ecrabb · Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:31 pm Post subject:

Hey, glad I can be here for ya, buddy! Very Happy

SC

scoobydoo · Joined: 06 Apr 2006 Posts: 358 Location: Victoria BC

I've only bi-wired my audiophile system. I ran it first with the gold jumpers and then bi-wired and I definitely noticed a difference on my B&W speakers.

JustGreg · Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 3098 Location: Kenosha, WI

I went down to my theater late one night to get some doc's and caught the rears trying to do the bi thing...I put an end to THAT right quick I tell you what! Shocked

Seriously tho folks, I learned alot from this poll/thread. Very informative for the audio impaired. Thumbs Up

tri_joel · Joined: 03 Jul 2007 Posts: 646 Location: Northern Virginia

Just tell the bi-wires to take a look at emdawgz's avatar thread.

That will straighten them out.