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NVIDIA vs ATI
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WanMan



Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10261



PostLink    Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:04 pm    Post subject: NVIDIA vs ATI Reply with quote


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Morning All,

My Abit F-I90HD motherboard died about a week or two after it started giving me CMOS errors. First time I had a motherboard last so short of a lifetime. I think I probably had it only a year or so.

Anyway, I'm looking to replace that solution and its integrated video graphics. I wanted to ask for help in learning the Pro's and Con's of NVIDIA vs ATI.

I was about to consider buying a PNY 9500GT ($70) or 9600GT ($100) video card, but thought maybe it would be wise to ask for feedback here before anything else. I am not sure what ATI has in comparable price and performance, but the applied use is to be installed into an ASUS P5Q Pro motherboard and re-using an Intel E6300 processor and 4GB of RAM.

I was thinking about giving the BD-ROM another try as the drive prices are $100, which means I could actually justify buying a retail copy of playback software. Given the use/planned intent, is there reason to consider ATI as the graphics solution for playback of BD?

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Z-Photo



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 2753
Location: Huntsville - Alabama


PostLink    Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nvidia has pwned ati for gaming applications (toughest application for video cards.)

I would recommend the 9800gt

9600

GPU/VPU: NVIDIA GeForce 9600 GSO
Additional Features: HDCP Enabled
SLI Ready
DirectX 10
OpenGL 2.1
PCI Express 2.0
Game Physics Capable
Shader Model 4.0, Nvidia CUDA Technology
Maximum Digital Resolution: 1600 x 1200
Video Memory: 768MB
Memory Type: DDR2
Memory Clock: 1000 MHz
Interface Type: PCI Express 2.0
Connector(s): S-Video
HDTV
Dual DVI (Dual Link)
Power Requirement: 400-Watt power supply

9800
GPU/VPU: NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT
Fill Rate per Second: 33.6 Billion pixels
Maximum Resolution: 2560 x 1600 (Digital) - Dual Link DVI
Video Memory: 512MB
Memory Type: GDDR3
Core Clock: 600 MHz
Memory Interface: 256-bit
Memory Clock: 1800 MHz
Shader Clock: 1500 MHz
Stream Processors: 112
Interface Type: PCI Express 2.0
Interface Speed: x16
Connector(s): Dual DVI (Dual Link)
VGA (w/DVI to VGA Adapter)
Multiple Monitors Support: Yes



has a much faster memory/shader clock and max resolution

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nuttall_chris



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 832
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada


PostLink    Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you planning on using this for a gaming machine? Or just for HTPC?

If just for HTPC go with the fanless ATI4550. It has native HDMI audio/video out and has hardware acceleration for Blu-ray/HDDVD playback. Also it runs at less than 25W.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125250

I just ordered one to replace my power hungery ATI 4850. In Canada I orded mine from http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=34812&vpn=GV%2DR455D3%2D512I&manufacture=Gigabyte

Chris.
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WanMan



Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10261



PostLink    Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Z-Photo wrote:
nvidia has pwned ati for gaming applications (toughest application for video cards.)

I would recommend the 9800gt

9600

GPU/VPU: NVIDIA GeForce 9600 GSO
Additional Features: HDCP Enabled
SLI Ready
DirectX 10
OpenGL 2.1
PCI Express 2.0
Game Physics Capable
Shader Model 4.0, Nvidia CUDA Technology
Maximum Digital Resolution: 1600 x 1200
Video Memory: 768MB
Memory Type: DDR2
Memory Clock: 1000 MHz
Interface Type: PCI Express 2.0
Connector(s): S-Video
HDTV
Dual DVI (Dual Link)
Power Requirement: 400-Watt power supply

9800
GPU/VPU: NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT
Fill Rate per Second: 33.6 Billion pixels
Maximum Resolution: 2560 x 1600 (Digital) - Dual Link DVI
Video Memory: 512MB
Memory Type: GDDR3
Core Clock: 600 MHz
Memory Interface: 256-bit
Memory Clock: 1800 MHz
Shader Clock: 1500 MHz
Stream Processors: 112
Interface Type: PCI Express 2.0
Interface Speed: x16
Connector(s): Dual DVI (Dual Link)
VGA (w/DVI to VGA Adapter)
Multiple Monitors Support: Yes



has a much faster memory/shader clock and max resolution


I'm not sure where you are getting your information from. I got this on PNY's website:

Specifications – 9600GT 512MB
BUS Technology PCI Express 2.0
Memory Amount 512MB GDDR3
Memory Interface 256-bit
Memory Frequency (effective) 1800 MHz
Memory Bandwidth (GB/sec) 57.6
Core Clock (MHz) 650 MHz
Shader Clock (MHz) 1625 MHz
Fill Rate (billion pixels/sec.) 20.8

Stream Processors
64

Key Features:
NVIDIA unified architecture
Full Microsoft® DirectX® 10 Shader Model 4.0 support
NVIDIA SLI® -Ready1
16x full-screen anti-aliasing
True 128-bit floating point high dynamic-range (HDR) lighting
NVIDIA Quantum Effects™ physics processing technology
PCI Express ® 2.0 support
Two dual-link DVI outputs support two 2560x1600 resolution displays
NVIDIA PureVideo® HD technology2
HDCP Capable3
PCI Express® support
OpenGL® 2.1 support

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MikeEby



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5236
Location: Osceola, Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just put a new HTPC together using one of these with an ATI/AMD with on board graphics controller.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128341

With this CPU, runs very quiet and cool.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103233

Works with Powerstrip and flawless playback with the LG Combo drive running Vista. I was a total Intel geek but this combination works perfect. I also put one of these capture cards for time shifting OTA HD.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815116016

If you building an HTPC get a MSC remote, makes the machine work more like a STB. No fumbling around with a keyboard or mouse in the dark.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16880100851


Mike

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WanMan



Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10261



PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I wasn't planning on using the HTPC for timeshifting until DirecTV got off their slower than decomposition of gold with their PC integrated solution. I just thought it my be worth having a PC and a player for BD. No gaming and no DVR at this time.
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Chuchuf



Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 548



PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeEby wrote:
I just put a new HTPC together using one of these with an ATI/AMD with on board graphics controller.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128341

With this CPU, runs very quiet and cool.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103233

Works with Powerstrip and flawless playback with the LG Combo drive running Vista. I was a total Intel geek but this combination works perfect. I also put one of these capture cards for time shifting OTA HD.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815116016

If you building an HTPC get a MSC remote, makes the machine work more like a STB. No fumbling around with a keyboard or mouse in the dark.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16880100851


Mike


Mike,

That is an excellent MB setup that will do BluRay without breaking a sweat. Put 2G of Ram in it for XP MCE (4G for Vista) and dedicate 512 for video. I've built a few of these using this MB and was very happy with the results.
For gaming they aren't that good in the demanding video dept.
I used the Phenom processors.

Terry
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WanMan



Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10261



PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry, which Phenom processors? I'm new to the AMD CPU world.
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Chuchuf



Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 548



PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here u go Wanman:
MB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128090
Processor http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103244
Ram http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227139
HD http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073
BR Drive http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106273

Add 2G more RAM if you go Vista Home Pro else go XP MCE (both work fine). TT for DVD and MKV's and TMT for BluRay.

A case and PS and you have a great BR machine.

It has HDMI if you want to go that route for video or VGA for RGBHV.

The only problem with this latest gen of HDMI equiped MB's is that support sending any surround lossless HD audio via the HDMI port. But if you are running a receiver spdif, it doen't matter.


This is another interesting MB. Haven't tested it yet but it looks like it may be pushing the GPU integrated MB's to the next level.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1087407

Terry
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Z-Photo



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 2753
Location: Huntsville - Alabama


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry-

those were pulled from tigerdirect at the product spec - these are XFX boards so the specs may differ.

I currently have one Gigabyte mother board / ASUS and one XFX. I will never buy another gigabyte MB.....


for less $ you get twice the memory at TD

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3404049&Sku=O261-8038

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Chuchuf



Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 548



PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Z-Photo wrote:
Terry-

those were pulled from tigerdirect at the product spec - these are XFX boards so the specs may differ.

I currently have one Gigabyte mother board / ASUS and one XFX. I will never buy another gigabyte MB.....


for less $ you get twice the memory at TD

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3404049&Sku=O261-8038


I can't believe how cheap DDR2 memory has become when you consider the prices a few years ago.
Surprised to hear you don't like Gigabyte. I started using them about a year ago and have been very pleased with them. Prior to that we were using a lot of Abit and some Asus MB's.

Terry
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rod



Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 418
Location: Northern Ontario, Canada


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We recommend Nvidia for our customers. we really push the envelope with a lot of heavy 3D graphics. We seem to have more stability issues with customers using ATI.
I personally have an ATI in my HTPC. I don't use it that much anymore but always had to piss around with drivers (install, uninstall.....). Seemed ATI and Windows were always fighting for the resources. I'd change a resolution in Windows and ATI would puke all over it (lose the second monitor for example) and I'd have to remove the ATI drivers and reinstall. Admittedly that was 2-3 years ago and much could have change since then. I've since moved on an only use DVD players and a PS3

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Z-Photo



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 2753
Location: Huntsville - Alabama


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of it has to do with nvidia making huge inroads into the MB design/chipsets. They seem to work better together.

I tend to go like brand when I am setting up a high graphics use computer (read gamer) - the current one has the

XFX MB (nvidia 780i chipset)
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3523225&CatId=1533

XFX graphics (2 in SLI) (nvidia)
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4260639&Sku=P450-9834

OCZ ram (SLI/nvidia)
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3404049&Sku=O261-8038

All running off a intel Q9400 quad
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4089664


no setup issues - (still waiting for the rebates though)
and it screams - 1920x1200 @72hzs and maxed settings - getting over 60-80 fps and staying cool.

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Chuchuf



Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 548



PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Z-Photo wrote:
A lot of it has to do with nvidia making huge inroads into the MB design/chipsets. They seem to work better together.

I tend to go like brand when I am setting up a high graphics use computer (read gamer) - the current one has the

XFX MB (nvidia 780i chipset)
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3523225&CatId=1533

XFX graphics (2 in SLI) (nvidia)
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4260639&Sku=P450-9834

OCZ ram (SLI/nvidia)
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3404049&Sku=O261-8038

All running off a intel Q9400 quad
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4089664


no setup issues - (still waiting for the rebates though)
and it screams - 1920x1200 @72hzs and maxed settings - getting over 60-80 fps and staying cool.


LOL Nice gaming machine!! Just a bit overkill for a BRD HTPC.
I might have saved a few bucks and used a Q6600 and overclocked it on air to 3.6G w/ this heat sink http://images.bit-tech.net/content_images/2007/07/overclocking_intel_core_2_quad_q6600/si-2-800.jpg


Terry
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greg_mitch



Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5321



PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chuchuf wrote:
Here u go Wanman:
MB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128090
Processor http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103244
Ram http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227139
HD http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073
BR Drive http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106273

Add 2G more RAM if you go Vista Home Pro else go XP MCE (both work fine). TT for DVD and MKV's and TMT for BluRay.

A case and PS and you have a great BR machine.

It has HDMI if you want to go that route for video or VGA for RGBHV.

The only problem with this latest gen of HDMI equiped MB's is that support sending any surround lossless HD audio via the HDMI port. But if you are running a receiver spdif, it doen't matter.


This is another interesting MB. Haven't tested it yet but it looks like it may be pushing the GPU integrated MB's to the next level.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1087407

Terry


I was just getting ready to build a box like this. Does this do the audio over the built-in HDMI? I see the comment you wrote, but I think you left out a word or didn't finish the thought.

Can the HDMI output any audio? Everything BUT lossless?? Not really a deal breaker yet as I dont have surround sound or a receiver in the living room, but might soon if I get my way!
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MikeEby



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5236
Location: Osceola, Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

greg_mitch wrote:


I was just getting ready to build a box like this. Does this do the audio over the built-in HDMI? I see the comment you wrote, but I think you left out a word or didn't finish the thought.

Can the HDMI output any audio? Everything BUT lossless?? Not really a deal breaker yet as I dont have surround sound or a receiver in the living room, but might soon if I get my way!


At the current time I think the only true way to get lossless audio on an HTPC is with this card.

http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=25&l2=150&l3=0&l4=0&model=2385&modelmenu=1

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132008

The video is actually routed out the sound card. Not cheap, about $239, but is bundled with Arcsoft so that takes a little bit out of the ouch!

Mike

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Last edited by MikeEby on Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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greg_mitch



Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5321



PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have read several things about that card not working and the drivers not supporting all of the features yet.

I dont really need lossless but 5.1 over HDMI would be cool. Will the 780g chipset do that?
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WanMan



Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10261



PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would think that it would be worth one's effort to compare the best available HDMI transport from the motherboard directly and then compare it to a lossless solution. Some may find that they cannot tell the difference, or be enough of a difference to justify the solution.
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Chuchuf



Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 548



PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

greg_mitch wrote:
I have read several things about that card not working and the drivers not supporting all of the features yet.

I dont really need lossless but 5.1 over HDMI would be cool. Will the 780g chipset do that?


Yes the 780G will do 5.1 DTS or DD over hdmi. Just not lossless.

Terry
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secstate



Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 720



PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have used Nvidia for a long time but recently cut over to ATI for my HTPC. For me PowerStrip is an essential. To avoid the "curtian" effect on my 808 Data I need to use PowerStrip to alter the timing settings. I also run multiple resolutions and PowerStrip allows me to instantaly switch between them. The later Nvidia cards 8xxx+ are not fully suppoted by PowerStrip. The biggest issue I have with ATI is that their drives are more problematic in my experience. I am running the 8.4 version which is considerably behind the latest only because the later drivers introduce a number of problems with my relatively new (3450 ATI card).
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