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Who uses a High Gain screen?
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Mr. Green




Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1394
Location: Calgary

TV/Projector: Marquee 9501LC / NEC 9PG+


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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AnalogRocks wrote:
Who makes a really high gain material these days? Something stupid like 13 or 14 gain?




Try this...

http://www.mocomtech.com/technote/main.cgi/Mocom_Power_screen(english).pdf?down_num=1119936848&board=eng_3&command=down_load&d=&filename=Mocom_Power_screen(english).pdf

Copy the whole thing into your browser.

_________________
You can be young only once but, you can be immature forever.

Current Projector Marquee9501LC with PS3 (BLu-Ray) at 1080P LOVE IT! Screen is an Elunevision 120" 4:3 (2.4 gain - no hotspots). (also own a NEC 9PG+)


Last edited by Mr. Green on Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26690
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Green wrote:
AnalogRocks wrote:
Who makes a really high gain material these days? Something stupid like 13 or 14 gain?



You'll have to view this as HTML but, ... http://74.125.95.104/search?q=cache:QI2Ei94pa9YJ:www.mocomtech.com/technote/main.cgi/Mocom_Power_screen(english).pdf%3Fdown_num%3D1119936848%26board%3Deng_3%26command%3Ddown_load%26d%3D%26filename%3DMocom_Power_screen(english).pdf+high+gain+screen+6:1&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=ca


Cool! Looks like it's made in West Korea Wink

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Mr. Green




Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1394
Location: Calgary

TV/Projector: Marquee 9501LC / NEC 9PG+


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was surpried I could find anything. The PDF is easier to read.
_________________
You can be young only once but, you can be immature forever.

Current Projector Marquee9501LC with PS3 (BLu-Ray) at 1080P LOVE IT! Screen is an Elunevision 120" 4:3 (2.4 gain - no hotspots). (also own a NEC 9PG+)
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Mr. Green




Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1394
Location: Calgary

TV/Projector: Marquee 9501LC / NEC 9PG+


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, sorry was gone so long. I was playing with a piece of paper and my stupid camera.

I'll continue to edit this post and add pictures...

Look at the name of the file (stand or sit) and it will tell you if I was standing or sitting for the same picture.

I didn't use the paper in all of them. In the pnes where I used it, it's in the center of the screen.

MY CAMERA SUCKS!!! It's not red, the camera does that and there's 1500 mini-lights flashing as well. Wink

Man those shots look like a$$. I swear it looks nice and sharp.



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_________________
You can be young only once but, you can be immature forever.

Current Projector Marquee9501LC with PS3 (BLu-Ray) at 1080P LOVE IT! Screen is an Elunevision 120" 4:3 (2.4 gain - no hotspots). (also own a NEC 9PG+)


Last edited by Mr. Green on Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:56 am; edited 2 times in total
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26690
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow is that a standard 8.5 x 11 sheet of white paper?
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Mr. Green




Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1394
Location: Calgary

TV/Projector: Marquee 9501LC / NEC 9PG+


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, cheap photocopy paper coverpage from work.

If I'm quiet for a few minutes, I'm trying to mix a bunch of pictures together for you since you like the room.

There were 9 photos to edit together. Still looks like a$$, but you get the idea.



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_________________
You can be young only once but, you can be immature forever.

Current Projector Marquee9501LC with PS3 (BLu-Ray) at 1080P LOVE IT! Screen is an Elunevision 120" 4:3 (2.4 gain - no hotspots). (also own a NEC 9PG+)
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VideoGrabber




Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 933
Location: Michigan


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Green,

thanks for taking the time to do all the photos, and provide the extra commentary. I also like the open feel of the room... really nice.

Gary already covered the screen waves pretty well, but you should know they're not bad at all, and unavoidable with any pull-down screen. The retro-nature masks them really effectively, and they'd have to be significantly worse for you to ever notice them during a film, and then only during certain pans. So you're in good shape there.

On the LobSitting/LobStanding shots I'm not sure how you can tell if the lobster is sitting or standing? J/K. Smile BTW, don't worry about the focus on the camera (pretty blurry, but that's common to screen shots). All we're looking for here are the screen illumination characteristics.

I am a bit confused though on the sitting/standing differences. Did you have the camera in auto-adjust mode? You'd really need to have a fixed aperture/timing setting to be able to compare anything. Also, there's the oddity that your standing pictures (which put you closer to the light source) are darker than the sitting shots. That's backwards, and I'm surprised no one has commented on it yet.

Ah, yes. The paper. I see you must have used auto settings. The paper is going to be approximately the same, regardless of sitting/standing. So when standing, the screen gets much brighter, making the paper look dark, as the camera adjusts. When sitting, the screen gain drops off a lot, and the paper starts to look comparable. It's inverted, but it still tells the story pretty well.

One thing to keep in mind about the retro screens though is that even when you're not able to get the full benefit of maximized gain (the usual case), you still benefit from the uniformity characteristics, and lack of hot-spotting. That's sometimes overlooked. On an angular-reflective screen, edge falloff can be an issue, especially with gain. And higher gains mean hotspotting.

Jeremy commented:
> It's a 'magic' NEC floating CRT. <

LOL. I thought the same at first. But there's nothing magic about it. He's simply using an Acme AGSU2000. (Anti-Gravity Suspension Unit) Waiting for the road-runner to come along. Wink

Gary mentioned:
> Looks like your viewing spot is well below the projector... <

I thought so too. That would probably put your eyeballs at ~4' below the centerline of the lenses (when seated). I'd guesstimate your eyeball to screen distance at ~14 feet? That would make your viewing angle ~16-deg, and hence the gain at <1.5 (possibly 1.2). I have no details on the EluneVision, but could run the numbers from DaLite HP, if you provide the measurements. Of course, the important thing is if it looks good to you (whatever the numbers turn out to be), and it does. Others may need more data for comparison/evaluation purposes.

Thanks again for the screen shots! They provide good material for discussion.

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garyfritz




Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12024
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim is right -- it's the difference between "screen" and "paper" I was looking for, since that will compensate for the camera's adjustments. In the "sitting" pictures, it looks to me like the screen isn't any brighter than the paper. Especially the picture of the girl, where the paper doesn't seem much different at all. Which says to me your gain in the sitting position is something close to 1.0 -- you're not getting much "gain" benefit from the screen. But as Tim said, you still benefit from the uniformity and lack of falloff on the edges. You may also get some colorshifting as you move from left to right, but not as much as if the projector was table-mounted.
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VideoGrabber




Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 933
Location: Michigan


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRT_Ben wrote:
> It is about as good as you get get for ambient light performance, <

Yes, it rejects any ambient not coming from the same location as the PJ. Though if you're not viewing from close to on-axis, the contrast still suffers a lot. So it's not a magic-bullet.

> ...and the pop when your eyes are *right* in line with the tubes is phenomenal (mine is under a coffee table - the pop from sitting on the couch is good, but if I lay my face on the table, it's blinding!). <

It may be worth pointing out that the same blindingly impressive results can be achieved with a virtual source. I.e., because of the size of CRT PJs, it's difficult to locate your eyeballs in their immediate vicinity (and having your ears that close imposes other disadvantages). But if you use a 1st-surface mirror, the PJ could be located above or below it, and yet the "source" could be mere inches above your head.

Real, effective gains approaching 2.5x can be achieved that way (on the DaLite, which maxes out at 2.8x). I don't know if the ElunaVision (2.4x) is actually a bit lower gain, or they're just more modest in their claims.

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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26690
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim. It's funny you should mention a first surface mirror. That was Mr.Greens idea when he first got here. To bounce a PJ off a mirror. Someone talked him out of it.

We talked about this screen a year ago too: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7796

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nuttall_chris




Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 832
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm using the 135" 16:9 fixed non pulldown version of that EluneVision 2.4 gain screen from eastporters. It worked well with my 9500Ultra but there was visible colour shifting from left to right. I've since upgraded to a JVC RS2 on the same screen. The digital works much better with this screen as there is no colour shifting.

Chris.
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Mr. Green




Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1394
Location: Calgary

TV/Projector: Marquee 9501LC / NEC 9PG+


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry about the no fixed focus, it's a tiny point and shoot HP Photosmart E317, 5 MP camera. It's great for taking to weddings and such because I get a few hundred shots with my 2 AA rechargeable energizer batteries so I can shoot the whole event in a tiny camera... Well, it was really tiny when I got it several years ago. I know smaller and better can be had now. I don't have a tripod, but I have used the dining room level, under the railing for stability in the past.

I sit about 3 feet under the projector and the distance from my eyes to the screen is almost exactly 10 feet. The room is only 12 feet wide and the screen is in front of the mantle which comes into the room about 10 inches. Usually, I'm leaning forward in exciting moies so my viewing distance is about 8 feet then. Wink

If I'd stayed in that condo, I was going to try the first surface mirror idea anyways... but that was 3 houses ago.

_________________
You can be young only once but, you can be immature forever.

Current Projector Marquee9501LC with PS3 (BLu-Ray) at 1080P LOVE IT! Screen is an Elunevision 120" 4:3 (2.4 gain - no hotspots). (also own a NEC 9PG+)
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