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NEC XG-75 + 8800GT
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Satanier



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 185



PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:05 am    Post subject: NEC XG-75 + 8800GT Reply with quote


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I'm looking to setup the best custom resolution for this projector. Does anyone have the settings I need to do a decent 1080i? or 1080p. What resolution might be best and how do I set it up in graphics drivers.


Also, I have some kind of "ghosting" where there is a clearish squiggly line on the left of my image, and dark things on a white background will have a squigglyish clearish ghost following their contours a few inches to the right of them.


I'm also having gamma issues, I'm using a custom gamma curve by tse in my nvidia panel which helps a lot, but I'm wondering if a hardware device like box 1021 would work better, as darker areas are still a bit dark and I'm seeing some gain in areas that don't need it. Has anyone tried both a custom curve and a hardware solution? How do they compare? If I spend over 100 dollars and its not any better I won't be happy at all.
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dropzone7



Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really can't speak to graphics cards as I'm not a HTPC user and try to avoid the headaches myself. You need Mark to chime in for help on that or maybe MikeEby. Regarding the gamma curve, I think you would benefit greatly from a hardware device such as the RTC2200 that I use. I think that box combined with the HD Fury is the best bang for the buck HDMI and gamma solution around. I have heard good things about the Box1021 and some of the others as well. You can usually find someone selling an RTC2200 for around the price you want to pay or a little less. I recommend it highly. What are you running your brightness at right now? Have you tried a different source to confirm that the "ghosting" and "squiggly" lines are not coming from your PC/graphics card? Also, if you are looking for the most stable and film-like image possible from your XG then I would go with 1080i. Everything I read and hear about 1080p on an XG makes it sound like more trouble than it's worth. You will have to do much more tweaking and the projector will have to work harder as well. It will be much happier with 1080i in my opinion.
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WanMan



Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10261



PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was told many times that my XG135LC was not going to find its best at a progressive resolution above 960P. I was told that this had to do with bandwidth, and I can imagine if this was true it would be for the XG75, too.
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Satanier



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 185



PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dropzone7 wrote:
I really can't speak to graphics cards as I'm not a HTPC user and try to avoid the headaches myself. You need Mark to chime in for help on that or maybe MikeEby. Regarding the gamma curve, I think you would benefit greatly from a hardware device such as the RTC2200 that I use. I think that box combined with the HD Fury is the best bang for the buck HDMI and gamma solution around. I have heard good things about the Box1021 and some of the others as well. You can usually find someone selling an RTC2200 for around the price you want to pay or a little less. I recommend it highly. What are you running your brightness at right now? Have you tried a different source to confirm that the "ghosting" and "squiggly" lines are not coming from your PC/graphics card? Also, if you are looking for the most stable and film-like image possible from your XG then I would go with 1080i. Everything I read and hear about 1080p on an XG makes it sound like more trouble than it's worth. You will have to do much more tweaking and the projector will have to work harder as well. It will be much happier with 1080i in my opinion.



I have my resolution set to 1920x1080 at 60hz right now, I think it might be interlaced but I don't even know how to confirm... I know my 24" dell lcd is unable to display it. I had a dvd player hooked up at one point, but with the size of the scan lines I don't even know if I would have noticed the "ghosts". I was hoping a custom resolution might fix them.

Hopefully Mark or MikeEby can help me out, I guess powerstrip doesn't work with my 8800gt I've read, so I would have to use the nvidia custom resolution screen and I couldn't figure it out at all.
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MikeEby



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5236
Location: Osceola, Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are the PowerStrip settings I run, it uses 72Hz refresh and note my scan rate is 95kHz so I donít think the XG75 will sync that high. I tried Nvidia card a while back, I didn't have a great deal of luck getting it to work reliable with custom Nvidia custom resolution tool, this was one reason I went with an ATI card, perhaps they have improved since I used it other users have had good luck however. I would assume you have downloaded the latest driver from the NVidia website.



Mike

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Satanier



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 185



PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeEby wrote:
Here are the PowerStrip settings I run, it uses 72Hz refresh and note my scan rate is 95kHz so I donít think the XG75 will sync that high. I tried Nvidia card a while back, I didn't have a great deal of luck getting it to work reliable with custom Nvidia custom resolution tool, this was one reason I went with an ATI card, perhaps they have improved since I used it other users have had good luck however. I would assume you have downloaded the latest driver from the NVidia website.



Mike




Thank you for the reply,

XG-75 scans to 75hz according to the main page. But my problem is I read that powerstrip won't work with my 8xxx series graphics card, so I just take those settings and apply them using the nvidia custom resolution? Do I just change the scan rate? And is there any problem with using 1080p vs 1080i? I don't even know which I'm using right now and I don't know how to check, I think it might be interlaced since my lcd wont display it.
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MikeEby



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5236
Location: Osceola, Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Satanier wrote:

XG-75 scans to 75hz according to the main page. But my problem is I read that powerstrip won't work with my 8xxx series graphics card, so I just take those settings and apply them using the nvidia custom resolution? Do I just change the scan rate? And is there any problem with using 1080p vs 1080i? I don't even know which I'm using right now and I don't know how to check, I think it might be interlaced since my lcd wont display it.


Have you tried the latest Powerstrip with the latest Nvidia driver, it could be the issue is fixed.

Mike

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Satanier



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 185



PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeEby wrote:
Satanier wrote:

XG-75 scans to 75hz according to the main page. But my problem is I read that powerstrip won't work with my 8xxx series graphics card, so I just take those settings and apply them using the nvidia custom resolution? Do I just change the scan rate? And is there any problem with using 1080p vs 1080i? I don't even know which I'm using right now and I don't know how to check, I think it might be interlaced since my lcd wont display it.


Have you tried the latest Powerstrip with the latest Nvidia driver, it could be the issue is fixed.

Mike




My powerstrip trial has expired it says, so I didn't even try that. Instead I entered all those settings into my nvidia custom resolution and it worked, and was already all converged. When I went to select the resolution I still saw the 1920x1080 resolution I've been using, it's hard to say if its any different now, I'll report back later.
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Mark_A_W



Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia


PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jesus christ Mike, you can't go telling newbies to run 1080p 72hz.

It'll stress the hell out of the projector, it'll run hot, you'll get raster ringing on the LH edge, and it'll probably be blurry. It will need the most careful setup, and my XG won't do it - it won't scan high enough, and the raster ringing and blurriness are bad enough at 1080i 96 (same as 1080p 48hz).

1080i 72hz or 1080i 96hz work very well, and are much easier on the projector.

1080i 72hz:
"C:\Program Files\PowerStrip\pstrip.exe" /t:1920,56,128,112,1080,4,10,30,89505,286

1080i 96hz
"C:\Program Files\PowerStrip\pstrip.exe" /t:1920,40,96,240,1080,54,14,97,137079,542
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MikeEby



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5236
Location: Osceola, Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark_A_W wrote:
Jesus christ Mike, you can't go telling newbies to run 1080p 72hz.

It'll stress the hell out of the projector, it'll run hot, you'll get raster ringing on the LH edge, and it'll probably be blurry. It will need the most careful setup, and my XG won't do it - it won't scan high enough, and the raster ringing and blurriness are bad enough at 1080i 96 (same as 1080p 48hz).

1080i 72hz or 1080i 96hz work very well, and are much easier on the projector.

1080i 72hz:
"C:\Program Files\PowerStrip\pstrip.exe" /t:1920,56,128,112,1080,4,10,30,89505,286

1080i 96hz
"C:\Program Files\PowerStrip\pstrip.exe" /t:1920,40,96,240,1080,54,14,97,137079,542


Mark is right! I would not really recommend 1080p@72Hz on your projector. Sorry if that's the way it came across. Try the above 1080i timings Mark supplied, should work fine.

One thing about interlaced resolutions, it's likely the desktop will look terrible, don't worry about it. Do your setup then watch a movie and it will look great.

Mike

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Satanier



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 185



PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark_A_W wrote:
Jesus christ Mike, you can't go telling newbies to run 1080p 72hz.

It'll stress the hell out of the projector, it'll run hot, you'll get raster ringing on the LH edge, and it'll probably be blurry. It will need the most careful setup, and my XG won't do it - it won't scan high enough, and the raster ringing and blurriness are bad enough at 1080i 96 (same as 1080p 48hz).

1080i 72hz or 1080i 96hz work very well, and are much easier on the projector.

1080i 72hz:
"C:\Program Files\PowerStrip\pstrip.exe" /t:1920,56,128,112,1080,4,10,30,89505,286

1080i 96hz
"C:\Program Files\PowerStrip\pstrip.exe" /t:1920,40,96,240,1080,54,14,97,137079,542




If that works will I be able to setup dual monitors? or an easy way to switch between them? Because my HTPC is also my main PC.
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MikeEby



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5236
Location: Osceola, Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Satanier wrote:
Mark_A_W wrote:
Jesus christ Mike, you can't go telling newbies to run 1080p 72hz.

It'll stress the hell out of the projector, it'll run hot, you'll get raster ringing on the LH edge, and it'll probably be blurry. It will need the most careful setup, and my XG won't do it - it won't scan high enough, and the raster ringing and blurriness are bad enough at 1080i 96 (same as 1080p 48hz).

1080i 72hz or 1080i 96hz work very well, and are much easier on the projector.

1080i 72hz:
"C:\Program Files\PowerStrip\pstrip.exe" /t:1920,56,128,112,1080,4,10,30,89505,286

1080i 96hz
"C:\Program Files\PowerStrip\pstrip.exe" /t:1920,40,96,240,1080,54,14,97,137079,542




If that works will I be able to setup dual monitors? or an easy way to switch between them? Because my HTPC is also my main PC.


Can't help you there, I just use a single monitor. I did try a dual monitor setup a while back, it seemed like PowerDVD had HDCP issues with the setup for blu-ray I was never able to get it working right.

Mike

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Satanier



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 185



PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeEby wrote:
Satanier wrote:
Mark_A_W wrote:
Jesus christ Mike, you can't go telling newbies to run 1080p 72hz.

It'll stress the hell out of the projector, it'll run hot, you'll get raster ringing on the LH edge, and it'll probably be blurry. It will need the most careful setup, and my XG won't do it - it won't scan high enough, and the raster ringing and blurriness are bad enough at 1080i 96 (same as 1080p 48hz).

1080i 72hz or 1080i 96hz work very well, and are much easier on the projector.

1080i 72hz:
"C:\Program Files\PowerStrip\pstrip.exe" /t:1920,56,128,112,1080,4,10,30,89505,286

1080i 96hz
"C:\Program Files\PowerStrip\pstrip.exe" /t:1920,40,96,240,1080,54,14,97,137079,542




If that works will I be able to setup dual monitors? or an easy way to switch between them? Because my HTPC is also my main PC.


Can't help you there, I just use a single monitor. I did try a dual monitor setup a while back, it seemed like PowerDVD had HDCP issues with the setup for blu-ray I was never able to get it working right.

Mike



I think I'm using 1080p@60hz right now, I don't know how to tell if its interlaced or not, is there any reason I can't continue using this?
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MikeEby



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5236
Location: Osceola, Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you press Info on the remote it should tell you on the screen the information on the signal input.

fH = 33.XXX kHz for 1080i 60hz for 1080p 60hz it should be much higher in the 70-80kHz range.

Mike

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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25148
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeEby wrote:
If you press Info on the remote it should tell you on the screen the information on the signal input.

fH = 33.XXX kHz for 1080i 60hz for 1080p 60hz it should be much higher in the 70-80kHz range.

Mike


Actually it should read around 64.xxx, it's doulbe the frequency of 1080i. When you try 1080P72 it jumps to the 70-80 range.

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Satanier



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 185



PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:
MikeEby wrote:
If you press Info on the remote it should tell you on the screen the information on the signal input.

fH = 33.XXX kHz for 1080i 60hz for 1080p 60hz it should be much higher in the 70-80kHz range.

Mike


Actually it should read around 64.xxx, it's doulbe the frequency of 1080i. When you try 1080P72 it jumps to the 70-80 range.



fH is 67.3khz, what does that mean?
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MikeEby



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5236
Location: Osceola, Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That means it's probably 1080p 60...like AR said.

Mike

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yonexsp



Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 311



PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Satanier, just saw your email.

OK, I think Mark & myself over the last 4 years have probably tried and had the most experience with XG's using HTPC's.

Here is what I have learnt, Mark chime in with any corrections etc:

1) XG's will accept a standard 1080p@60 signal but won't resolve it like this, but will leave a lot of unused raster which is bad! Hence the need for custom timings via either a HTPC or external scaler like a VP50 to be able to use all the raster.
2) Powerstrip with interlaced signals only works with ATI cards and Non 8xxx series NVidia cards. Which if you have an 8800GT or an 8500GT in my case, sucks! BUT
3) ATI seem to have dropped Gamma correction for Vista (that maybe changed with the latest catalyst drivers, have not checked), really freakin BAD!, as to be honest the main benefit of a HTPC for me at this point is gamma correction, I hate Vista!
3) 1080i@96 is the best and closest to a Progressive looking image you will get with interlaced, but refer to #2 above
4) 108i@72 is the next best. Both resolutions are only really better because they get rid of judder.
5) 1080p@48 flickers to much
6) XG's will do 1080p AND Resolve the lines properly at 60hz BUT, and big BUT! Takes a perfectly setup XG, perfect astig, custom timings etc etc not worth the hassle to be honest, and a NON-LC version at that for the best 1080p resolving as well. NON-XG's are sharper, BUT LC's version are awesome, coz practically all the halo's are gone.
7) XG's are infinitely tunable, colours are great and just look stunning when done right
8) 108i@60hz from the component output of an NVidia card like the 8800GT is really really good. BUT you need AnyDVD to get over the DRM crap which you don't need over VGA, but you can't use an 8800GT over VGA in interlaced mode aggghhhhh!!!! oh and you need a component input card or transcoder. BUT, there is no Raster size issue, plenty of bandwidth to play with.
9) Things were so much easier before the need for fancy video cards for HD DVD and BD Sad
10) PowerDVD is not as good as it used to be. The Toshiba external HD DVD player HD-A3, is the best for DVD but you need gamma correction BUT for 1080i support you need a DVI/HDMI input card.
11) Vista sucks! I said that already right, well it sucks!
12) Powerstrip does not work basically with 8xxx series NVidia cards, what a nightmare!
13) NVidia's custom resolution feature sucks a ss! The lack of real time adjustments aka Powerstrip is a huge loss, and effectively makes the software almost useless

What do I use now:

8500GT with component output 1080i@60hz running AnyDVD. It is a drop dead image, but is so sharp right now I can see scanlines from 8ft on a 100", but they aren't really distracting in any meaningful way.

What is need to solve all of the above?

Cheap ATI card that supports Gamma correction in Windows Vista. The ATI cards support interlaced mode, work well with Powerstrip, just the gamma needs to be fixed. But, as I just spent the money on the PC & Card, I will wait. 1080i@60 over the component looks stunning already, and having seen all the other resolutions, it matches up really really well. Yes there is some slow pan judder, but I never see it now anyway.

So, try a copy of Anydvd, use the component and away you go is my advice.

Ken
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Satanier



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 185



PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yonexsp wrote:
Satanier, just saw your email.

OK, I think Mark & myself over the last 4 years have probably tried and had the most experience with XG's using HTPC's.

Here is what I have learnt, Mark chime in with any corrections etc:

1) XG's will accept a standard 1080p@60 signal but won't resolve it like this, but will leave a lot of unused raster which is bad! Hence the need for custom timings via either a HTPC or external scaler like a VP50 to be able to use all the raster.
2) Powerstrip with interlaced signals only works with ATI cards and Non 8xxx series NVidia cards. Which if you have an 8800GT or an 8500GT in my case, sucks! BUT
3) ATI seem to have dropped Gamma correction for Vista (that maybe changed with the latest catalyst drivers, have not checked), really freakin BAD!, as to be honest the main benefit of a HTPC for me at this point is gamma correction, I hate Vista!
3) 1080i@96 is the best and closest to a Progressive looking image you will get with interlaced, but refer to #2 above
4) 108i@72 is the next best. Both resolutions are only really better because they get rid of judder.
5) 1080p@48 flickers to much
6) XG's will do 1080p AND Resolve the lines properly at 60hz BUT, and big BUT! Takes a perfectly setup XG, perfect astig, custom timings etc etc not worth the hassle to be honest, and a NON-LC version at that for the best 1080p resolving as well. NON-XG's are sharper, BUT LC's version are awesome, coz practically all the halo's are gone.
7) XG's are infinitely tunable, colours are great and just look stunning when done right
8) 108i@60hz from the component output of an NVidia card like the 8800GT is really really good. BUT you need AnyDVD to get over the DRM crap which you don't need over VGA, but you can't use an 8800GT over VGA in interlaced mode aggghhhhh!!!! oh and you need a component input card or transcoder. BUT, there is no Raster size issue, plenty of bandwidth to play with.
9) Things were so much easier before the need for fancy video cards for HD DVD and BD Sad
10) PowerDVD is not as good as it used to be. The Toshiba external HD DVD player HD-A3, is the best for DVD but you need gamma correction BUT for 1080i support you need a DVI/HDMI input card.
11) Vista sucks! I said that already right, well it sucks!
12) Powerstrip does not work basically with 8xxx series NVidia cards, what a nightmare!
13) NVidia's custom resolution feature sucks a ss! The lack of real time adjustments aka Powerstrip is a huge loss, and effectively makes the software almost useless

What do I use now:

8500GT with component output 1080i@60hz running AnyDVD. It is a drop dead image, but is so sharp right now I can see scanlines from 8ft on a 100", but they aren't really distracting in any meaningful way.

What is need to solve all of the above?

Cheap ATI card that supports Gamma correction in Windows Vista. The ATI cards support interlaced mode, work well with Powerstrip, just the gamma needs to be fixed. But, as I just spent the money on the PC & Card, I will wait. 1080i@60 over the component looks stunning already, and having seen all the other resolutions, it matches up really really well. Yes there is some slow pan judder, but I never see it now anyway.

So, try a copy of Anydvd, use the component and away you go is my advice.

Ken



I don't have component inputs on my XG-75, I think my rasters are being fully used as well, and I guess I'm running 1080p but it looks very sharp, it looks about as good as my dell 2407wfp-hc 24" lcd, which is native resolution 1920x1200. I don't really want to buy more stuff if I can avoid it, I'm saving up for a gamma box and an HDMI option in the far future. Vista certainly does suck, that's why I still use XP =). Nvidia custom resolution sucks too, I agree. So I guess my question is, my raster seems totally used, the picture looks as sharp as my LCD monitor, (aside from the left side // corners because my green tube wont focus right there ---- issue is electronic), is there any real problem with just leaving it as is now? It's also nice to just use windows resolution config since I can easily manage my multiple monitors, one of which being the CRT. Is my XG special somehow? That I was able to get an incredible looking setup in 1080p as a newbie? I'm a bit confused I guess.
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MikeEby



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5236
Location: Osceola, Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your happy with the picture stay with it...Your the only one that has to be satisfied. Thumbs Up

Mike

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