First off, my brightness is 60 and my contrast is 75 on the projector. My projector is connected to my computer at 1920x1080p via VGA to RGBHV.
When playing DVDs with pc, everything was too dark. I recently changed reinstalled some codecs and players and everything got even darker, pretty much unwatchable. For example, in a dark room with someone standing during a face close-up I couldn't even make out details like the nose, mouth. Keep in mind though, it was too dark even before this.
Now::: I found that if I adjust my nvidia control panels video color options, so that nvidia settings manage video settings, and change the brightness from default 50 to about 60 or even 65, then the problem is completely solved except blacks become a bit greyish, so then I changed a setting in the same panel called "dynamic range" from limited, to full, 0-255. This made all the blacks inky, fade to black goes 100% black even on tube face, and movies pop way more now, all detail is visible like it is on my LCD monitor, and basically the projector looks 10 times better. However, 2d(not 3d) animation becomes washed out, but everything else becomes watchable, and looks fantastic, whereas it had been unwatchably dark before.
I had some concerns so I put everything back to default:
1. Why should I even have to change this, shouldn't it just look right to begin with?
2. Is this essentially the same thing as turning up the brightness on the crt? Would this shorten the life? Or is it different because maybe the crt settings adjust beam intensity, and this just increases source brightness levels? Does this drive the tubes harder? I don't know.... So confused right now.
I'm going to do a test later, I'm going to hook my DVD player up via S-VIDEO, and see if that is too dark, if it is, then I guess that means something is wrong with my projector? Since the brightness wouldn't be adjustable on that I wouldn't think. I will report back later with the results from the DVD player test
I'm losing sleep over this.... I hope nothing is wrong with my new investment. =\
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 12856 Location: West Seneca NY
TV/Projector: Marquee 8000, 8500 And a 9500LC RetroIV , 2 Longbow 8500 Ultras(2004!!)Hd145's , Ampro 3600, a G90!!
Link Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:50 pm Post subject:
Are you sure your G2 levels are ok? I dont own a NEC but it sound like that could be it, So i would try the dvd player and see if that is the same if it is then i'd check your G2 settings. te setting that you had on the nvidea might be ok when it looked better some set need a certain Video signal voltage and at first yours may have been to low. A NEC user needs to help more.
Athanasios _________________ Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"The government can't control the economy without controlling the people" RR
One Smart Dog!!! Tom Bauerle to Andre Cuomo" Elliot Spitzer Screwed some Prostitutes, you screwed the Constitution" On his call to Cuomo to Resign!!!
Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 5150 Location: Osceola, Indiana
Link Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:54 pm Post subject:
Nashou66 wrote:
Are you sure your G2 levels are ok? I dont own a NEC but it sound like that could be it, So i would try the dvd player and see if that is the same if it is then i'd check your G2 settings. te setting that you had on the nvidea might be ok when it looked better some set need a certain Video signal voltage and at first yours may have been to low. A NEC user needs to help more.
Athanasios
Yep, I would set the video card settings back to default try G2 calibration first.
Link Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:08 pm Post subject:
That G2 calibration looks quite complex and difficult, I would prefer to save that until all other options have been investigated:
I connected a dvd player via svideo to the unit, and did a quick convergence and setup job::
Things I noticed:::
-At the edges of image little dots floating around, eliminated with blanking
-High pitched noise from projector, similar to when no signal attached, so annoying I don't know if I could live with it.
-Large, obvious scan lines on screen, looks terrible in comparison to playing dvd on pc using 1920x1080p.
-Seemed harder to converge and align than via PC, certain areas I just couldn't get quite right.
-Image is brighter, hard to say ::for sure:: but I would say the proper brightness.
So that's where I'm at, the dvd player connected via s-video is brighter than the same dvd played from my pc, (The Matrix) I figured its quite dark so would be a good test. I would go as far as to say the brightness is correct. This movie has black bars at the top and bottom, and they are not true black from the dvd player, but perhaps they arent supposed to be? Because if they were then detail would be lost in other areas, and the image would appear too dark as it does with PC.
Not quite sure where I go from here, but there's some more info for you guys.
Joined: 12 Jun 2007 Posts: 1070 Location: Charlotte, NC
Link Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:26 am Post subject:
Mike wont like this answer but...if it were me I would drop the PC as a source all together. Even if you are a PC geek and understand everything about them it's just I have just never felt like they were a good source to setup or troubleshoot a CRT projector. Getting your mind around the way the projector works is hard enough without dealing with a computer. I prefer a HD DVD or Blu Ray player or even your HD cable box.
Don't sweat the G2 calibration too much. It's not that bad compared to what you have done already. If you have a voltmeter and good instructions then just set aside an hour or two to do it and it WILL make a difference if done correctly.
Oh yeah, S-video will look like dogshit as you have observed but sometimes using the composite video or S-video input is the only way to diagnose problems. I don't think you are the point where you need to be using those inputs. Do the G2 calibration and then try a good HD source besides your PC. _________________ "Coffee is for Closers."
Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 5150 Location: Osceola, Indiana
Link Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:44 am Post subject:
dropzone7 wrote:
Mike wont like this answer but...if it were me I would drop the PC as a source all together. Even if you are a PC geek and understand everything about them it's just I have just never felt like they were a good source to setup or troubleshoot a CRT projector. Getting your mind around the way the projector works is hard enough without dealing with a computer. I prefer a HD DVD or Blu Ray player or even your HD cable box.
Don't sweat the G2 calibration too much. It's not that bad compared to what you have done already. If you have a voltmeter and good instructions then just set aside an hour or two to do it and it WILL make a difference if done correctly.
Oh yeah, S-video will look like dogshit as you have observed but sometimes using the composite video or S-video input is the only way to diagnose problems. I don't think you are the point where you need to be using those inputs. Do the G2 calibration and then try a good HD source besides your PC.
I'm glad you said that to be honest it was a total PITA to get 1080p to work decent with an HTPC I probably has spent 50+ hour tweaking. I just got a new Dish Network Sat receiver a couple of weeks ago and it works really decent @ 1080i with my projector although I have to set 1.5 screen width away to not see scan lines. A scaler like a VP-50pro would be the most ideal solution...but that's big $$$$.
Mike _________________ Doing HD since the last century!
Link Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:48 am Post subject:
dropzone7 wrote:
Mike wont like this answer but...if it were me I would drop the PC as a source all together. Even if you are a PC geek and understand everything about them it's just I have just never felt like they were a good source to setup or troubleshoot a CRT projector. Getting your mind around the way the projector works is hard enough without dealing with a computer. I prefer a HD DVD or Blu Ray player or even your HD cable box.
Don't sweat the G2 calibration too much. It's not that bad compared to what you have done already. If you have a voltmeter and good instructions then just set aside an hour or two to do it and it WILL make a difference if done correctly.
Oh yeah, S-video will look like dogshit as you have observed but sometimes using the composite video or S-video input is the only way to diagnose problems. I don't think you are the point where you need to be using those inputs. Do the G2 calibration and then try a good HD source besides your PC.
The guide seems quite confusing, I have a multimeter but it doesn't specify where the test points are, or akb test switch location, and requires a test disc that I don't have. Also, I really want to use my PC as HTPC, I pretty much bought the projector for that purpose and input only.
Adjusting my G2 could increase brightness of the projector without having to adjust brightness in my graphic card control panels? And does adjusting brightness in control panel hurt the tubes? Also, I have noticed on my LCD (Dell 2407wfp-HC), changing "dynamic range" in my nvidia panel under video settings from 16-235 to 0-255 makes my blacks on this LCD appear as real blacks, and actually makes me realize just how sh*tty it looked before I changed this setting. It makes me wish I had discovered that setting a year ago.
So what I'm wondering:
1)G2 Calibration isn't just greyscale calibration? It will affect image brightness?
2)Can changing control panel video brightness hurt my tubes
3)What is the proper "dynamic range" to send to the CRT, "full" certainly looks better. Options are full or limited, with the ranges I described above.
Link Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:03 am Post subject:
I should also note, with the s-video dvd-player things are brighter, and with PC things are darker, so.... I would want to do a G2 adjustment for the source I would be using, correct?
Why would my G2 be out of alignment?
Is G2 calibration separate for each source?
Link Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:38 am Post subject:
Quote:
I'm losing sleep over this.... I hope nothing is wrong with my new investment. =\
I wouldn't worry about your new investment. Your results sound about standard for running 1080p. As many have found, you need to get the front and back porch adjustments to the scan of your PC video card to eliminate side foldover that is making your image so dark. The only successful adjustments that I've seen have been done using an ATI video card and PowerStrip to make the adjustments. I would start out with 1280x720p and see if that makes things look normal. If it does then I'm fairly certain the 1080p issue can be dealt with via porch adjustments. _________________ Jerry
Link Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 5:36 am Post subject:
jarseneau wrote:
Quote:
I'm losing sleep over this.... I hope nothing is wrong with my new investment. =\
I wouldn't worry about your new investment. Your results sound about standard for running 1080p. As many have found, you need to get the front and back porch adjustments to the scan of your PC video card to eliminate side foldover that is making your image so dark. The only successful adjustments that I've seen have been done using an ATI video card and PowerStrip to make the adjustments. I would start out with 1280x720p and see if that makes things look normal. If it does then I'm fairly certain the 1080p issue can be dealt with via porch adjustments.
Well I added a new resolution and converged it, 1280x720. Using my windows desktop video settings.
It was maybe marginally brighter, but honestly it's hard to tell, it's still way too dark. I also had trouble getting this one spot to converge on the screen, I couldn't quite get it to go right.
So that's where I'm at right now... still quite frustrated.
Link Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:05 pm Post subject:
Satanier wrote:
I should also note, with the s-video dvd-player things are brighter, and with PC things are darker, so.... I would want to do a G2 adjustment for the source I would be using, correct?
Why would my G2 be out of alignment?
Is G2 calibration separate for each source?
There must be an expert on these subjects here...
Curt Palme and Doug Baisey amoung others are the experts, but I'll give these questions a shot..
G2 can need re-adjustment as the tubes age, especially if you can look at the tube faces and see some amount of burn in (an area darker than the edges)
G2 calibration is global and not separate for each source.
How long is the VGA cable you are using from your PC? You might be getting some drop in the cable and that will make the picture darker. Can you temporarily try a short cable? _________________ Jerry
Link Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: NEC XG Brightness Issue
Satanier wrote:
I have an issue with my CRT:
First off, my brightness is 60 and my contrast is 75 on the projector. My projector is connected to my computer at 1920x1080p via VGA to RGBHV.
When playing DVDs with pc, everything was too dark. I recently changed reinstalled some codecs and players and everything got even darker, pretty much unwatchable. For example, in a dark room with someone standing during a face close-up I couldn't even make out details like the nose, mouth. Keep in mind though, it was too dark even before this.
Now::: I found that if I adjust my nvidia control panels video color options, so that nvidia settings manage video settings, and change the brightness from default 50 to about 60 or even 65, then the problem is completely solved except blacks become a bit greyish, so then I changed a setting in the same panel called "dynamic range" from limited, to full, 0-255. This made all the blacks inky, fade to black goes 100% black even on tube face, and movies pop way more now, all detail is visible like it is on my LCD monitor, and basically the projector looks 10 times better. However, 2d(not 3d) animation becomes washed out, but everything else becomes watchable, and looks fantastic, whereas it had been unwatchably dark before.
I had some concerns so I put everything back to default:
1. Why should I even have to change this, shouldn't it just look right to begin with?
2. Is this essentially the same thing as turning up the brightness on the crt? Would this shorten the life? Or is it different because maybe the crt settings adjust beam intensity, and this just increases source brightness levels? Does this drive the tubes harder? I don't know.... So confused right now.
I'm going to do a test later, I'm going to hook my DVD player up via S-VIDEO, and see if that is too dark, if it is, then I guess that means something is wrong with my projector? Since the brightness wouldn't be adjustable on that I wouldn't think. I will report back later with the results from the DVD player test
I'm losing sleep over this.... I hope nothing is wrong with my new investment. =\
You've solved your brightness "issue" with your computer input, yet you still think you have a "problem" ? You don't. Relax.
Quote:
I had some concerns so I put everything back to default:
So what ? You have no way of knowing if "Default" has any connection to the condition it would have been when it left the factory. When you are in "Service" mode you can easily change default, it is a capability so QUALIFIED service technicians can easily store NEW defaults when the particulars of the installation warrant it. Also, when it left the factory, it would have been setup to a baseline condition which was a fairly liberal compromise of settings designed to allow the projector to adequately display a whole host of different inputs signals. It does NOT mean that EVERY signal would be OPTIMIZED at those settings...
So stop assuming your "investment" is "broken" IT IS NOT. Period. It is functioning, as far as anyone can tell from a distance, EXACTLY the way it was designed to function. It is a VERY mutable thing, YOU control how it functions, for the most part...
Don't rush into making changes to the projector ASSUMING it is "broken". If it actually IS broken, changes to the setup won't make it UN-broken...
So stop worrying about that, it makes learning about your new prize and discovering its capabilities more difficult if EVERY time you do some learning, you waste time worrying about it being "broken", its not.
Now, as for "g2". If you can make the image from your sources look good WITHOUT messing with it DON'T !!
I would think that would be obvious, but I say that because it doesn't seem like you've come to that conclusion....
If 2D animation doesn't look AS GOOD with the same settings, CHANGE THEM...
Every different signal needs different setup tweaks, even within same playback methods, BluRay for instance, virtually EVERY disc is mastered differently... My buddy with a G90 has the ability to do very precise setups because of that projectors capabilities, but we had to do a compromise setup, where he tweaks the black level for most discs, because we found that EVERY DISC had a different black level, some by only a small amount, some by a very, very large amount....
Have you replaced those thin vga extenders yet ?? If not, then DO NOT CONTINUE WORRYING ABOUT YOUR IMAGE FROM THAT SOURCE.
With crt projectors, its always first things first....
I recall when I was a new user, I had an issue that my red channel suddenly went darker than the others...I worried and worried that my projector was "broken". Wiser, more experienced users told me: "did you check/replace the cable and verify it to be good ?". I didn't bother because it *had* been working fine, well, as you can imagine, eventually I got around to doing that and guess what, the cable was bad. Had I done the first things first and simply checked the cable properly, all would have been solved...
So please relax. DO NOT adjust your G2 unless you've been using your setup for a lot longer, reading a LOT more, and experimenting on a "user" type level for a LOT longer.
Your brightness "issues" sound like NORMAL variations from different sources, combined with some computer centric issues involving poor or wrong translation of brightness from "video" levels to "computer levels....
And no, you're not going to "ruin" your projector by running the brightness at the correct level ie. the level that looks good TO YOU. Brightness is black level, you need to raise or lower it according to the source in order to get to the point where you have a reasonable compromise between getting black when its supposed to be black, and having some shadow detail. Your tube life isn't much affected by brightness. Contrast, or white level is the more acute determiner of tube life, and personally, I would never recommend having contrast set below the level that looks good TO YOU only to "save" your tubes. If the picture doesn't look good to you with low contrast, why bother "saving" that ?? Set your contrast as high as you can without causing blooming and/or white clipping(ie. a homogenization of white where every shade of white appears the same blown out overbright white color. I find the THX setup pattern pretty much the easiest to do this with, but it will only apply to the disc its found on, of course....).
Any crt projector user can reasonably expect thousands of hours of enjoyment from their device, pretty much regardless of settings... Of course, with everything there are points of compromise...
Last edited by Elaine Benes on Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
Link Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:32 pm Post subject:
jarseneau wrote:
Satanier wrote:
I should also note, with the s-video dvd-player things are brighter, and with PC things are darker, so.... I would want to do a G2 adjustment for the source I would be using, correct?
Why would my G2 be out of alignment?
Is G2 calibration separate for each source?
There must be an expert on these subjects here...
Curt Palme and Doug Baisey amoung others are the experts, but I'll give these questions a shot..
G2 can need re-adjustment as the tubes age, especially if you can look at the tube faces and see some amount of burn in (an area darker than the edges)
G2 calibration is global and not separate for each source.
How long is the VGA cable you are using from your PC? You might be getting some drop in the cable and that will make the picture darker. Can you temporarily try a short cable?
I tried connecting just the short cable with no extension to my laptop, it didn't appearn any brighter.
Link Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: NEC XG Brightness Issue
Elaine Benes wrote:
Satanier wrote:
I have an issue with my CRT:
First off, my brightness is 60 and my contrast is 75 on the projector. My projector is connected to my computer at 1920x1080p via VGA to RGBHV.
When playing DVDs with pc, everything was too dark. I recently changed reinstalled some codecs and players and everything got even darker, pretty much unwatchable. For example, in a dark room with someone standing during a face close-up I couldn't even make out details like the nose, mouth. Keep in mind though, it was too dark even before this.
Now::: I found that if I adjust my nvidia control panels video color options, so that nvidia settings manage video settings, and change the brightness from default 50 to about 60 or even 65, then the problem is completely solved except blacks become a bit greyish, so then I changed a setting in the same panel called "dynamic range" from limited, to full, 0-255. This made all the blacks inky, fade to black goes 100% black even on tube face, and movies pop way more now, all detail is visible like it is on my LCD monitor, and basically the projector looks 10 times better. However, 2d(not 3d) animation becomes washed out, but everything else becomes watchable, and looks fantastic, whereas it had been unwatchably dark before.
I had some concerns so I put everything back to default:
1. Why should I even have to change this, shouldn't it just look right to begin with?
2. Is this essentially the same thing as turning up the brightness on the crt? Would this shorten the life? Or is it different because maybe the crt settings adjust beam intensity, and this just increases source brightness levels? Does this drive the tubes harder? I don't know.... So confused right now.
I'm going to do a test later, I'm going to hook my DVD player up via S-VIDEO, and see if that is too dark, if it is, then I guess that means something is wrong with my projector? Since the brightness wouldn't be adjustable on that I wouldn't think. I will report back later with the results from the DVD player test
I'm losing sleep over this.... I hope nothing is wrong with my new investment. =\
You've solved your brightness "issue" with your computer input, yet you still think you have a "problem" ? You don't. Relax.
Quote:
I had some concerns so I put everything back to default:
So what ? You have no way of knowing if "Default" has any connection to the condition it would have been when it left the factory. When you are in "Service" mode you can easily change default, it is a capability so QUALIFIED service technicians can easily store NEW defaults when the particulars of the installation warrant it. Also, when it left the factory, it would have been setup to a baseline condition which was a fairly liberal compromise of settings designed to allow the projector to adequately display a whole host of different inputs signals. It does NOT mean that EVERY signal would be OPTIMIZED at those settings...
So stop assuming your "investment" is "broken" IT IS NOT. Period. It is functioning, as far as anyone can tell from a distance, EXACTLY the way it was designed to function. It is a VERY mutable thing, YOU control how it functions, for the most part...
Don't rush into making changes to the projector ASSUMING it is "broken". If it actually IS broken, changes to the setup won't make it UN-broken...
So stop worrying about that, it makes learning about your new prize and discovering its capabilities more difficult if EVERY time you do some learning, you waste time worrying about it being "broken", its not.
Now, as for "g2". If you can make the image from your sources look good WITHOUT messing with it DON'T !!
I would think that would be obvious, but I say that because it doesn't seem like you've come to that conclusion....
If 2D animation doesn't look AS GOOD with the same settings, CHANGE THEM...
Every different signal needs different setup tweaks, even within same playback methods, BluRay for instance, virtually EVERY disc is mastered differently... My buddy with a G90 has the ability to do very precise setups because of that projectors capabilities, but we had to do a compromise setup, where he tweaks the black level for most discs, because we found that EVERY DISC had a different black level, some by only a small amount, some by a very, very large amount....
Have you replaced those thin vga extenders yet ?? If not, then DO NOT CONTINUE WORRYING ABOUT YOUR IMAGE FROM THAT SOURCE.
With crt projectors, its always first things first....
I recall when I was a new user, I had an issue that my red channel suddenly went darker than the others...I worried and worried that my projector was "broken". Wiser, more experienced users told me: "did you check/replace the cable and verify it to be good ?". I didn't bother because it *had* been working fine, well, as you can imagine, eventually I got around to doing that and guess what, the cable was bad. Had I done the first things first and simply checked the cable properly, all would have been solved...
So please relax. DO NOT adjust your G2 unless you've been using your setup for a lot longer, reading a LOT more, and experimenting on a "user" type level for a LOT longer.
Your brightness "issues" sound like NORMAL variations from different sources, combined with some compute centric issues involving poor or wrong translation of brightness from "video" levels to "computer levels....
Well, I can get the image to much brighter (and better) by adjusting the brightness for video in my graphic card settings.
But I have two questions::
1. Is this the same as turning up brightness on PJ? Will it damage my tubes?
2. This makes the black bars on the top and bottom of video that doesn't fill the full 16:9 become visible, are they supposed to be visible? when they are invisible everything else is too dark... Fade to blacks also become fade to not quite total blacks.
With the dvd player connected through s-video these are visible, and FTB isnt 100% black, you can see the aspect ratio as a very dark gray. So it makes me wonder if it's supposed to look like that?
Link Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:41 pm Post subject:
Also, BEFORE you use ANY disc for setup, be sure you know EVERYTHING about that disc. I would most emphatically NOT recommend using "The Matrix" for ANY setup work at all. All scenes in "The Matrix" which take place IN the Matrix are filmed with a green filter, pretty much the worst kind of image to use for judging your setup. Pretty much with "The Matrix" if it looks crappy and green, then you've got it right. Another thing about "The Matrix" is that the first movie has, IMHO, very poor focus which is inherent to the actual construction of the film and the subsequent transfers.
Link Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: NEC XG Brightness Issue
Satanier wrote:
1. Is this the same as turning up brightness on PJ? Will it damage my tubes?
2. This makes the black bars on the top and bottom of video that doesn't fill the full 16:9 become visible, are they supposed to be visible? when they are invisible everything else is too dark... Fade to blacks also become fade to not quite total blacks.
With the dvd player connected through s-video these are visible, and FTB isnt 100% black, you can see the aspect ratio as a very dark gray. So it makes me wonder if it's supposed to look like that?
1. Yes. No.
2. Not likely, but not necessarily no. I've found it varies from disc to disc. Usually, I will set my brightness(whether via source or projector) to the point where I *just* can make out the black bars. CRT projectors are a collection of compromises. If you want TOTAL fade to black AND shadow detail, you pretty much MUST have a low level gamma boost device. This is the case because CRT projection tubes simply do not emit light in a directly proportional way. A zero voltage level produces black, but a 5% voltage increase does not produce the equivalent light output to match a 5% increased brightness level from black.
What a low level gamma boost circuit does is leaves black at 0 voltage, but increases the voltage of low level black(darkest grey variations) in order that you can see it, then it leaves the voltage correspondence for higher light levels alone so they are NOT washed out, ok ?
Link Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:04 pm Post subject: Re: NEC XG Brightness Issue
Elaine Benes wrote:
Satanier wrote:
1. Is this the same as turning up brightness on PJ? Will it damage my tubes?
2. This makes the black bars on the top and bottom of video that doesn't fill the full 16:9 become visible, are they supposed to be visible? when they are invisible everything else is too dark... Fade to blacks also become fade to not quite total blacks.
With the dvd player connected through s-video these are visible, and FTB isnt 100% black, you can see the aspect ratio as a very dark gray. So it makes me wonder if it's supposed to look like that?
1. Yes. No.
2. Not likely, but not necessarily no. I've found it varies from disc to disc. Usually, I will set my brightness(whether via source or projector) to the point where I *just* can make out the black bars. CRT projectors are a collection of compromises. If you want TOTAL fade to black AND shadow detail, you pretty much MUST have a low level gamma boost device. This is the case because CRT projection tubes simply do not emit light in a directly proportional way. A zero voltage level produces black, but a 5% voltage increase does not produce the equivalent light output to match a 5% increased brightness level from black.
What a low level gamma boost circuit does is leaves black at 0 voltage, but increases the voltage of low level black(darkest grey variations) in order that you can see it, then it leaves the voltage correspondence for higher light levels alone so they are NOT washed out, ok ?
I've read that turning up brightness or contrast shortens tube life, so if this is equivalent wouldn't that be bad?
What sort of range does a low level gamma boost device work with? I feel like the whole image overall could use a boost, although the dark areas are of course the worst.
Link Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:22 pm Post subject:
MikeEby wrote:
I wouldn't worry about it unless you are trying to overcome ambient light. In a light controlled home theater tubes should last 15000-25000 hours.
Mike
I have my CRT's brightness at 60 and contrast at 75, then I'm adjusting my video brightness on my computer's control panel to 60 instead of default 50, blacks are no longer perfect pure black, but the entire image benefits immensely overall, with detail emerging all over the picture and the image really popping. Then I change "dynamic range" from 16-223 to 0-255 on my control panel, and the range of black levels seems to deepen a bit.
Link Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:30 pm Post subject: Re: NEC XG Brightness Issue
Satanier wrote:
I've read that turning up brightness or contrast shortens tube life, so if this is equivalent wouldn't that be bad?
What sort of range does a low level gamma boost device work with? I feel like the whole image overall could use a boost, although the dark areas are of course the worst.
The question is, though, so what if it DOES shorten tube life ???
Simply USING the projector shortens tube life, but you wouldn't consider NOT using it, right ??
If you have an image you HATE watching, then WHO CARES how long your tubes last ?
Why bother worrying about stuff that you have little to no control over. Pretty much, if you want a pleasant image, you have to make your projector put out the light. If that means pushing the brightness, by ANY METHOD, then do it.
There is a finite amount of light ANY projection tube can put out without lighting up the parts of the image that are supposed to be black. Period. You can adjust your "G2" which I would personally avoid like the plague, if you like, but in the end, only so much light comes out till the black areas start to turn grey. Pretty much the ONLY way to avoid this is to employ SOME KIND of low level gamma boost. Some people achieve this by using a custom gamma curve in Nvidia control panel, some use a device between their sources and projectors which applies a uniform low level gamma boost to all sources, some people have expensive scalers that allow customized low level gamma boost in such a way as to preserve ruler flat gray scale as well. There are ANY NUMBER OF WAYS to achieve the same result. Low level gamma boost devices generally only affect the lowest range of brightness, from just above black to dark gray. Electronic gamma controls, like the Nvidia gamma curve, can be used to affect the entire gamma range if you so prefer, but MOST people ONLY boost the very low brightness part of the curve.
You've already stated you got a satisfactory image by adjusting your computers graphics card color controls, SO USE THAT.
As I've already stated, the "Brightness" control has little effect on the overall life of your tubes, as it controls the BLACK level. It doesn't matter WHAT brightness control you use, be it the projectors or sources, you're still always adjusting the same thing, the BLACK level.
What you can be concerned about, if you must be concerned about something, is your CONTRAST levels... If you run your CONTRAST levels excessively high, you will cause abnormally fast tube wear, but note I say abnormally fast. What that implies is that the tubes WEAR NORMALLY. And by "abnormally fast" I mean you might get 6000 hours of satisfying use instead of 8000 hours, NOT like you'd only get 4 hours of satisfying use instead of 10,000. The effects of higher than normal contrast are *generally* not profound.
Simply using your projector in a normal fashion will cause the tubes to wear/degrade, it is the nature of the display technology. The phosphor coating has a finite amount of light that can be emitted in relation to the amount of electrons that bombard it. The difference in useful tube life is affected by ABNORMALLY high contrast settings a lot more than slightly higher brightness settings.
You will know if your contrast is set too high if you have poor focus. You will also know if your contrast is set too high if you have no distinction in varying white scenes. Use the THX test pattern to check this, it is one of the best for this. It is found on many DVD's with the THX logo.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You can download files in this forum
Forum FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Photo Albums
Register
Profile
Private Messages
Log in
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Link
A scaler like a VP-50pro would be the most ideal solution...but that's big $$$$.
