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How to add an Isolation Transformer to AV system.Thanks Bob!
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


        Register to remove this ad. It's free!
this looks like a god one for you:

XENTEK-INC-EXTREME-ISOLATION-TRANSFORMER, what Bob sugests is that you plug this in after the power conditioner i believe so it be:

=======>


Athanasios

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Ohmess



Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 242
Location: Vienna, VA


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very cool. I was already looking at that one.

Can you comment on this, as a backup in case I get outbid on the other one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=330283981319
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not that one its only 350volt output, the more the merrier!! This be much better. 3.5KVA, but not sure of the noise supression the Xenteck is ultra isolation, which is the best for noise but its not as strong current wise as this next one. But this one is 30 amp so youd have to make sure the plug you connect to it is cabable f a 30 amp draw but i dont think your system will even get close !!!!! 30 amps is a lot!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260311259191&indexURL=0&photoDisplayType=2#ht_917wt_0

this next one is a nice alternative to both and the 8 amps should be enough, if not you can always look for another similar one to plug into another outlet.
I have one that is similar but 12 amps and it was the same price. This type come up on Ebay a lot so you can always wait.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220284364841&_trksid=p3907.m32&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching#ebayphotohosting


And this one looks very very intresting, I might get one myself for my computers.

http://cgi.ebay.com/UPSI-1500-va-ISOLATION-TRANSFORMER-Power-Conditioner_W0QQitemZ280283686154QQihZ018QQcategoryZ100184QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem




Athanasios

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Ohmess



Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 242
Location: Vienna, VA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dang. Missed that one. I'll keep watching.
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is another plug in one that is 15 amps!!!!! Might be more than you want to pay but I think it is worth it, especially if you sell your other power conditioner to offset the cost.

Isolation Transformer Made By Hulda Transformers For General Electric

Athanasios

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Ohmess



Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 242
Location: Vienna, VA


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snagged one of those. Good suggestion. Thanks man.

I can probably get a couple of bucks for the surge protector I'm using now.

Gotta figure out how to get the sub onto it; its on the other side of the room.

Hope I get all this done for the Super Bowl!
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Ohmess



Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 242
Location: Vienna, VA


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yo Nashou66. I installed that puppy today, and fired up the amplifiers the improvement is amazing. All the hum/background noise etc. is gone. Between songs, dead silence. My theater gear has never sounded this good.

Thanks for the help.
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah it does make a difference, I was skeptical at first, but the hum I had was so annoying , And i knew that Adcom Preamps were known for a slight hum but was never sure if it was the Adcom or just bad power or a both. I actually also just grounded my satellite distribution box and switcher to the Isolation transformers ground I was using a line level iso in the coax till now and was losing bandwidth and channels as a result. Now its all good, and I can for sure hear the ever so slight inherent Adcom noise(this is going out of my system as soon as the new Outlaw Preamp is out Smile ) I have just located the two breakers that go to my upstairs every day system and will be putting one in between those outlets too!!!

Athanasios

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wallace123456



Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 2235
Location: Northwest VA area


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the risk of starting a "heated discussion" about AC power conditioners/isolation, has anyone used any of the iso units for the video portion of your home theater?

If so, any improvement?

wallace

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine powers my Whole theater, 5Kva's !!!! its rated at 41 amps which is more than enough. It does improve the picture better than those monster power supplies. Lets put it this way, before when My Air conditioner or Dishwashing machine would turn on or switch to different cycles(dishwasher) My PJ would do a quick flash, and it was on its own
circuit breaker in a separate sub panel box dedicated for the theater from one of my mains, I have two in my hose one on each end of the basement. And the Sub panel that is for the theater runs off the main box that is NOT feeding the dishwasher or the Central air, that is my second Breaker box. Even thought it was separated by two panel boxes the air and dishwasher caused that issue. Now I have no problems with brownouts, its a nice steady power flow. The Iso Xfrmr isolates the hot and neutrals from all the other circuits in the house, its like its own power company ,so to say, providing 5000 VA with a 41 amp current ability. Mine can also can take a full lighting strike to the main incoming power sources, from what I have read, and its output is not affected. Like bob says you can touch the hot and ground and not get zapped the way I have it set up.

Bob will be able to explain it much better as he used to install these in Hospitals. I love it, sure it was one heavy MOFO but it does the job and worth the 250 i paid for it and it has a -120db noise reduction, i did a search for the one i got and found out it goes for over 2g's new!!! this one powered an entire array of HP main frames for some military base.

I paid more for the Monster HTS2600 I have that weighs only 5Lbs compared to 150lbs, and now i have no Hum the Monster Power did Shite!!!!!

Athanasios

Athanasios

_________________
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wallace123456



Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 2235
Location: Northwest VA area


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Athanasios,
Not sure if I missed something or not (normally, I do Embarassed ), but do the iso units provide surge protection? I looked at the Hulda website, but still dont see anything about surge protection.

I ask because the last 3 years, we have had terrible A/C service (outages that sometimes will go off and on several times within a few minutes).

Are there re-set switches/buttons on the iso units?

Again, maybe I'm having a complete mental block, but have to ask.

wallace

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, they can handle a lightning strike. That was one of the things I asked Bob about when i first started this thread. I also read it somewhere also.
A big one like mine i do believe is better than smaller units. I remember also that in some of Richard Grays Power station units were just isolation transformers and they stated that they handle lighting strikes as well. They are the same thing I have but just packaged and promoted for high end audio and cost a lot more.

Bob can answer this best.

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


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Ohmess



Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 242
Location: Vienna, VA


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wallace123456 wrote:
At the risk of starting a "heated discussion" about AC power conditioners/isolation, has anyone used any of the iso units for the video portion of your home theater?

If so, any improvement?

wallace


I've read where lots of people say this makes no difference for video. On the other hand, the user manual that came with my Lumagen HDP that I use as a video processor states that it makes more difference with video than with audio.

Right now, my projector is in pieces, so I cannot mess with this. And, my projector is on another circuit than all the audio and source equipment. Before I button up everything and consider it done, I am planning to test the project hooked up to the isolation transformer. It likely will be several weeks before I can get to this.
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Boilermaker



Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 527



PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Not sure if I missed something or not (normally, I do ), but do the iso units provide surge protection?


Wallace - There is no "surge" protection device as a part of an isolation transformer. There is, however, a single pole filter effect as the result of the windings of the transformer. Tear apart one of the "filters" available and you will find series inductors and parallel capacitors. The only difference is that the inductor in the filter is tiny in comparison to the transformer! If, for some reason, you feel the need to add any filters or over-voltage breakdown devices, make sure that you install them on the primary side of the isolation transformer or you lose some of the benefits of the transformer.

As to whether or not there could be a difference in video - It all depends on whether or not you have a problem - The isolating effect applies exactly the same for video as audio.

Video signals use coax cables that are designed to transport a signal from one device to another. If there are any ground loop issues at all, the ground current (along with all its noise and harmonic components) can use the video cable. You have just lowered the S/N ratio of your signal.

Even if you have leakage problems arise with a component, the transformer will block it.

There is no rocket science to a power isolation transformer and no matter how much it costs, there can be no functional difference between one made by Square D or one made by a hyper hi-end company!

Bob
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boilermaker wrote:
Quote:
Not sure if I missed something or not (normally, I do ), but do the iso units provide surge protection?


Wallace - There is no "surge" protection device as a part of an isolation transformer. There is, however, a single pole filter effect as the result of the windings of the transformer. Tear apart one of the "filters" available and you will find series inductors and parallel capacitors. The only difference is that the inductor in the filter is tiny in comparison to the transformer! If, for some reason, you feel the need to add any filters or over-voltage breakdown devices, make sure that you install them on the primary side of the isolation transformer or you lose some of the benefits of the transformer.

As to whether or not there could be a difference in video - It all depends on whether or not you have a problem - The isolating effect applies exactly the same for video as audio.

Video signals use coax cables that are designed to transport a signal from one device to another. If there are any ground loop issues at all, the ground current (along with all its noise and harmonic components) can use the video cable. You have just lowered the S/N ratio of your signal.

Even if you have leakage problems arise with a component, the transformer will block it.

There is no rocket science to a power isolation transformer and no matter how much it costs, there can be no functional difference between one made by Square D or one made by a hyper hi-end company!

Bob


Bob Couldn't you add in the main panel box before the Isolation Transformer one of those in panel box surge arestors?
How do those work and where in the panel box should it be located or doesn't it matter?

Athanasios

_________________
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"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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Boilermaker



Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 527



PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Bob Couldn't you add in the main panel box before the Isolation Transformer one of those in panel box surge arestors?
How do those work and where in the panel box should it be located or doesn't it matter?


Athanasios,

They are usually an over-voltage device that has a decreasing resistance with increasing voltage. The concept is that as an overvoltage spike hits the power line it can travel to ground through the safety device and limit damage to other things. As you could imagine, if the power spike is high enough and of long enough duration, the safety device will itself fail, sometimes creating a fire. Therefore, the best place to put any of these devices is on your service entrance main panel. Just put them on a circuit breaker so that they are also protected.
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curt not sure if I can post this here but tis not a crt so i don't think you'll mind,if you do I'll remove it.

There is a 15KVA Isolation transformer for sale on the bay. its basicly 3 5KVA units in series to make a 15 KVA unit.
it doesnt say it has a reserve but its starting low and it does have a buy it now price that is High unless you split them up and resell them:

Topaz 15Kva Isolation transformer



Topaz make high end units with good noise figures.

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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Boilermaker



Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 527



PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Athanasios - Actually this is a three phase transformer, so it would not be reasonable to use for our applications. The transformer was designed specifically for healthcare (operating rooms) as it has 208 volt primaries.

Thnks,
Bob
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob here are the specs on the listing:

TOPAZ 1511T35T ULTRA ISOLATION TRANSFORMERS

INPUT 120/208, 30

VOLTS 60 HZ

OUTPUT 120/208

VOLTS 15KVA

Isn't it selectable to either 120 input or 208 input
and the same for the output just depending on how you wire it up?
Also its three connected so each could be used separately right?

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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Boilermaker



Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 527



PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Isn't it selectable to either 120 input or 208 input
and the same for the output just depending on how you wire it up?
Also its three connected so each could be used separately right?


Athanasios,

Depending on how it is configured, yes you can feed it either 208 single phase or 120 single phase. The 208/120 distribution systems used in hospitals is three phase with 208 volts phase to phase and 120 volts phase to neutral.

The secondary side will be 120 either way.

The pita is that in order to supply the full 15KVA, you would need about 125 amps at 120 volt.

But hey, who needs 15KVA, right?

Bob
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