CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

IWantMyHD

I have an Electrohome ECP 4100 sourced by a PS3 HDMI to RCT2000 - HDFury based upon recommendations in this forum. Picture quality is good but as anybody reading this forum knows you always want more. So I read the Greyscale and Coloration for Dummies novel (Great job Kal!) and purchased an Eye One and Bluray HD basics to see if I could make things better. I have made progress but am stymied by what Kal refers to as the Blue Hump and a few other items that maybe someone has found a work around.

1) I blurred the blue electronic focus and was able to smooth the curve a little but when I blurred too much I started to get a blue halo around whites against dark backgrounds. So I took the sharpened the focus to where this was not a problem but have that pesky hump and it drops off dramatically before 30% and after 80%. Is there anything else that I can do to deal with this?

2) The blue drive turned to max at the high end and the only way I can get this to 100% is too lower green. Is this advisable?

3) The gamma is low and terrible for blue. I thought the RTC2000 would get me to spec. Is there some setting on the RTC2000 that I am missing?

4) In setting the G2 pots they are incredibly sensitive. I mean with an imperceptible turn/touch I jump 10% points on a given color. It makes getting 100%B 100%G 100%R at the low end a very tricky act. Is this just my machine?

Lastly, a couple of notes to Kal.

1) In you manual you should note that when you choose a calibration for a CRT you have to set the HD Basics to 100% and point the Eye One to the projector (not the screen - it would not pick up the refresh rate from there). Not knowing this caused me some frustration. I assume the little white box that comes up is to let you put the sensor on the PC screen to calibrate but since it is looking for the refresh rate of the device you are working with this did not seem appropriate.

2) The manual is great and shows real effort and thought. It would be great to add an addendum of problems and solutions that people like me who have used the manual could summit our thoughts.

Thank you for your effort! Sorry for the long email - I just spent the last two days playing with my new coloration toy and wanted to get it out.

PS: I have attached the before and after coloration tables if anyone is interested.

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

IWantMyHD · Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:04 am Post subject:

The CRT mode is necessary for CRT projectors. My Electorhome projects onto a 104" screen. My point was that the screen was useless for calibrating the Eye One. The CRT mode doesn't want a black surface - it wants a white source to apparently calibrate the refresh rate. Thank you for your feedback.

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

No you dont use CRT for CRT front Projectors , You need to set it to LCD and aim it to the screen for CRT front Projectors, this is how every one deos it, Only if you have a rear CRT projector you use CRT and place the probe on the Screen since the tubes are behind it. I have a Marquee 8500 and 8000 and have done it this way for both and I have had it proffessionaly calibrated before and they did it the same way. Unless you have the 20,000 dollar Phillips Probe that has three probes for each tube that you put on the lenses, you aim it at the screen and you calibrate it with LCD and place it on a flat surface to block out light. Truse me on this.

Athanasios

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

I just read the guide and realized Kal changed it but I still think it should be LCD, I dad about 15 tests and it would only catch the refresh rate about 50% of the time. I ahve used LCD and faced the screen using the diffusor and achived similar results but the calibration process facing the Tubes is sketchy for me. using the calibration methode of reading complete blackness is more assuring as that blac is black, with using the white feild of an uncalibrated set doesnt seem correct to me, unless I have the wrong way of looking at it.

Athanasios

IWantMyHD · Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:39 am Post subject:

Okay Athanasios,
I accept what you're saying. I just reread Kal's document (see below) and see that although it states CRT mode should be used for "CRT projector or CRT rear projector" this is in parens for "Users with CRT displays". I guess it meant for CRT displays that use a CRT projector. A little confusing since CRT rear projector is in the parens also, but a possible explanation. So the big question to me is if the calibration is wrong, does this mean all my measurements are wrong? Do I need to start over? And does that mean my other other questions are irrevelent given bad measurements?

Kal's document:
"Ensure that the "Calibration Mode" is set to "LCD" for all types of display types except for the following situations:

Users with CRT displays (direct view tube, CRT projector, or CRT rear projection) should select "CRT". This is for both the Eye-One and Spyder2 sensors."

David_Web · Joined: 02 May 2007 Posts: 418 Location: Sweden

I think the CRT mode is for when you put the sensor very close to the screen (on a crt monitor or rp, or pointing it at the screen). The 'pulses' of light that the sensor sees will have to be locked on to as they are so short.
When you aim the sensor at the screen the pulses will be a lot longer and thus don't need to be locked on to.

Or somewhere in that direction. At least that is one reason I can think of. Why would i else want to lock on to the refresh rate?
I would switch it to LCD mode and aim it at the screen. But that's just me. Although I don't have the same sensor.

richmond5 · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 48 Location: Toronto, Canada

I have a Electrohome 8500 and I calibrate using IWantMyHD way. I am pretty happy with the result. That the way HCFR suggested anyway. I did try to use LCD mode and facing the screen without the diffuser. The software lockup at no time. No way I can finish the whole calibration. IWantMyHD, out of curiosity, tried doing the LCD mode and see how that compare with your old result and please let us know! Thanks!

IWantMyHD · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:42 am Post subject:

I wanted to try the LCD mode but my wife made me put the home theatre together for guests so I probably won't get back to it until Tuesday. I will let you know. In the mean time anybody out there with any suggestions to my other issues? I will post them here again so you don't have to go to page 1.

I have an Electrohome ECP 4100 sourced by a PS3 HDMI to RCT2000 - HDFury based upon recommendations in this forum. Picture quality is good but as anybody reading this forum knows you always want more. So I read the Greyscale and Coloration for Dummies novel (Great job Kal!) and purchased an Eye One and Bluray HD basics to see if I could make things better. I have made progress but am stymied by what Kal refers to as the Blue Hump and a few other items that maybe someone has found a work around.

1) I blurred the blue electronic focus and was able to smooth the curve a little but when I blurred too much I started to get a blue halo around whites against dark backgrounds. So I took the sharpened the focus to where this was not a problem but have that pesky hump and it drops off dramatically before 30% and after 80%. Is there anything else that I can do to deal with this?

2) The blue drive turned to max at the high end and the only way I can get this to 100% is too lower green. Is this advisable?

3) The gamma is low and terrible for blue. I thought the RTC2000 would get me to spec. Is there some setting on the RTC2000 that I am missing?

4) In setting the G2 pots they are incredibly sensitive. I mean with an imperceptible turn/touch I jump 10% points on a given color. It makes getting 100%B 100%G 100%R at the low end a very tricky act. Is this just my machine?

**kal** · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:00 am Post subject:

FWIW, I'm still confused myself as to what the correct mode (LCD or CRT) is for CRT front projectors. I did work with LCD mode but the sensor was very very slow at reading at higher IRE levels.

My EyeOne Display LT sensor's been lent out to someone so I can't see if CRT mode helps out.

We'll get to the bottom of this for sure...

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

Kal, I have had no problems using LCD mode, no hang ups, no slow reading and I have done it many times trying to perect the grey scale and its just plain fun to me!, I have done both my PJ a few times. never did it lock up, also i teid the crt mode twice and just didnt look right, had a red push to everything even though the graphs looked as close as the lcd readings.

I wonder if it has something to do with the computer's being used? I figured I'd have the most problems as I am using a mac running bootcamp with XP instaled...no issues at all with the Eye1Display2.

Athanasios

richmond5 · Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 48 Location: Toronto, Canada

I tried with both LCD and CRT mode with my Marquee last night. I was lucky, HCFR did not hang up on me when doing the grayscale in LCD mode. The results are very similar. I like the CRT mode better, because with the sensor facing the crt , physically, the setup is a lot easer!

rajdude · Joined: 10 Mar 2006 Posts: 65

Hey Kal!
This is a pretty big change. But I am still confused.

Are you 100% sure that now we should point the sensor to the CRT progestor's guns ONLY while doing the calibration?
Not later (while doing the rest of the procedure) right?

And yes..........the iOne LT is VERY slow in taking readings. Especially in the continous mode.
HCFR also seems to hang IF I end the continous mode. I had to reboot my laptop a few times. Finally I just let it be in the continous reading mode all the time!

BYW, I have not tried any other mode , other than the LCD.

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

Raj, I have done and redone and redone my calibration on my marquees to see how close I can get the grey scale. I tried many many methods using the diffusor facing not facing, no diffusor facing not facing, different modes CRT,LCD.Plasma, justto see what happens to the results. The three that have had the closets readings were these:

Facing the screen using LCD mode no diffusor.
Facing the screen using LCD with diffusor.
Facing projector Using Diffusor meter close to screen.

All were calibrated placing eye1 on a flat surface blocking out any light, I have had no hang ups at all on high readings. Only a few times at below 20.
When i tried CRT mode and calibrating for that, I got readings way off from my LCD readings using the above methods.
I would use LCD facing the screen, its the color off the screen we want to calibrate, Some screen reflect light in different spectrums I would assume, so by facing the PJ you would not be taking in the factor of screen material and its reflective properties.

Regarding the hangups, I feel this could be a problem not with the sensor but with the laptop being used. Whn I first tried it i borrowed a freinds Dell it hung up all over the place, I put Bootcamp and XP onto a partition on my MAC and have not had any issues of hang ups except for the lower IRE's below 20.

Athanasios

David_Web · Joined: 02 May 2007 Posts: 418 Location: Sweden

Have you turned off power savings for the USB port?
Could be that causing it.

**kal** · Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:36 pm Post subject:

rajdude · Joined: 10 Mar 2006 Posts: 65

Ok, Thanks for clarifying guys!

Now back on the topic of this thread......how do you minimize the blue hump on CRTs (other than defocussing)?
I notice defocusing causes image degradation.

How do the pros do it?

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

if you have a VP yopu can use its controls to help. The lumagens are great as they have 11 point color and gamma controls.

Athanasios

rajdude · Joined: 10 Mar 2006 Posts: 65

No dude....I'm not that lucky/rich to own a VP. Mine is just a HTPC fed G70.

Maybe the HTPC can control the blue hump?

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

I still have a hump as I have not used the Lumagen because it will be feeding two PJ's for my blend, and each PJ will need separate color calibration. But even having that slight hump the image is much much better than before so if you can see the difference and it looks better than before dont sweat it. Asl long as its close i wouldnt worry.

I am sure you can do some work with the HTPC to help it out.

Athanasios