Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4901 Location: Flower Mound, TX
Link Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:10 pm Post subject:
The Lumagen DVI does not accept 1080p/24. You will need to input 1080i/60 into and have it scale to 720p/60. alternatively, you could have the source scale to 720p/60, then have the Lumagen frame rate convert to 720p/72. See which is better.
If you have recent firmware--the Lumagen DVI has per pixel motion adaptive 1080i deinterlacing. Most of the time, this produces results as good as film mode, but it does not have a true 1080i film mode.
The Lumagen HDP would get you:
- 1080p/24 input
- True film mode deinterlacing (for sources that can't do 1080p/24 such as your sat or cable)
- 10 bit scaling (as opposed to the DVI 8 bit).
Downscaling is easier than upscaling, so the 8 bit is not too bad if you are outputting 720. But, there are rare times when you would notice that the HDP scales better. _________________ Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
I saved them to different memorys to switch them fast. But i cant see in one of them that the stutter is completly away
Another problem is that when i switch to digital output, i will not get any picture on the crt. But i cant understand this, because on the output is the HDfury wihcih should accept my digital signal and convert it to analog. Or am i wrong with this?
So the lumagen HDP is the first model who can handel 1080p24 and convert it to 720p72? So i have to get some for testing, would be nice if this realy works good, because the differnce of dvd scaled up to 720p and hd scaled down to 720p is amazing What a sharp picture
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4901 Location: Flower Mound, TX
Link Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:50 pm Post subject:
Malakay wrote:
720p75
You should only use this for SD PAL material.
Malakay wrote:
720p72 (71.93?? cant remember exactly)
71.93 should be correct. If your source is a player that can output 720p/60 well, try this (I did this and got smooth playback from the DVI):
1) Set the SCALE setting for this input to "PASS".
2) Set the Lumagen for 720p 71.93 output
Malakay wrote:
720p60
If you are going to do this, you don't need the Lumagen!
Malakay wrote:
I saved them to different memorys to switch them fast. But i cant see in one of them that the stutter is completly away
All film source being 24fps stutters. Make sure you are not just seeing the normal stutter. If slow pans are not jerky, then it is right. If they are jerky (not smooth stuttering), then something is not right.
Malakay wrote:
Another problem is that when i switch to digital output, i will not get any picture on the crt. But i cant understand this, because on the output is the HDfury wihcih should accept my digital signal and convert it to analog. Or am i wrong with this?
I don't understand what you are saying here. What is the source, connection, and sequence in which you are doing things.
Malakay wrote:
So the lumagen HDP is the first model who can handel 1080p24 and convert it to 720p72?
Yes.
Malakay wrote:
So i have to get some for testing, would be nice if this realy works good, because the differnce of dvd scaled up to 720p and hd scaled down to 720p is amazing What a sharp picture
Just curious, what is your projector and why not 1080i? _________________ Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
Link Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject:
Person99 wrote:
You should only use this for SD PAL material.
Yes, the main material i use is pal dvd atm.
Person99 wrote:
71.93 should be correct. If your source is a player that can output 720p/60 well, try this (I did this and got smooth playback from the DVI):
1) Set the SCALE setting for this input to "PASS".
2) Set the Lumagen for 720p 71.93 output
Oh, ok, i will try this settings on the next HDDvD
Person99 wrote:
Malakay wrote:
720p60
If you are going to do this, you don't need the Lumagen!
Hmm, ok, thats right but i just want so see the differnce between Lumagen and standart HD EX1 output
Person99 wrote:
All film source being 24fps stutters. Make sure you are not just seeing the normal stutter. If slow pans are not jerky, then it is right. If they are jerky (not smooth stuttering), then something is not right.
i did take a look at riddick and pitch black. At the beginning there is the "universal" trailer where the universal font comes around the world. And there is stutter ive never seen before, not on normal pal dvd.
Can i find any movies anywhere in the internet to make shure what stutter i see??
Person99 wrote:
Malakay wrote:
Another problem is that when i switch to digital output, i will not get any picture on the crt. But i cant understand this, because on the output is the HDfury wihcih should accept my digital signal and convert it to analog. Or am i wrong with this?
I don't understand what you are saying here. What is the source, connection, and sequence in which you are doing things.
the HD Fury converts the digital HDMI/DVI signal into RGB Signal. But when i try to set the output of the lumagen scaler to "digital only", there is no picture on the CRT. So i have to select "both analog/digital" and then i get back my picture. But i dont understand this oO
My connection: HD EX1 - HMDI to DVI cable - Lumagen DVI Input 1 - Lumagen Output DVI - DVI Cable - HD Fury - RTC2200 - ECP4100 crt.
Person99 wrote:
Malakay wrote:
So the lumagen HDP is the first model who can handel 1080p24 and convert it to 720p72?
Yes.
This is the most important fact for me
Person99 wrote:
Malakay wrote:
So i have to get some for testing, would be nice if this realy works good, because the differnce of dvd scaled up to 720p and hd scaled down to 720p is amazing What a sharp picture
Just curious, what is your projector and why not 1080i?
I only got an Electrohome ECP 4100, but this crt was color calibrated and looks amazing to me. And i dont want to buy an new crt which can handle full hd. I also tried 1080i but i cant live with that flickering picture
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4901 Location: Flower Mound, TX
Link Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:36 pm Post subject:
Malakay wrote:
But when i try to set the output of the lumagen scaler to "digital only", there is no picture on the CRT. So i have to select "both analog/digital" and then i get back my picture. But i dont understand this oO
My connection: HD EX1 - HMDI to DVI cable - Lumagen DVI Input 1 - Lumagen Output DVI - DVI Cable - HD Fury - RTC2200 - ECP4100 crt.
I've only used Lumagens with the BNC option, so I can't test this for you. However, when switching the output of the DVI, it will drop and need to handshake again. If you are doing this while playing back an HD DVD, what the player as the front panel will probably report the HDMI link was lost, then it will say "STOP". You will have to push play again.
Otherwise, try putting the Lumagen into digital only mode and saving the config (without the HD DVD player on). Turn everything off. Power up as normal and give it a go. As I said, my DVI has BNC, so my DVI is "digital only" all the time, and I don't have this issue with an HD Fury. _________________ Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
Link Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:13 pm Post subject:
Something strange happend yesterday:
I played with some settings, i searched the menu for the "pass" option. And while i played with the lumagen scaler i also changed tha resolution of the HDDvD player to 1080p/24. And i cant believe it, it did work. I was able to look 2 movies with 1080p/24 input scaled to 720p/71.93 When i hit the "OK" button, it shows me 1080p 24 input. The picture was completly stutter free, perfekt and smooth
But now i tried it again, but it wont work anymore. Damn, i dont know whats wrong.
So it seems that also the Lumagen DVI is able to handle that resolution, but lumangen disable it. Seems they want to sell the high price scalers first.
Is it possible to pay an update price to lumagen and i can get an vision vdp??
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4901 Location: Flower Mound, TX
Link Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject:
Malakay wrote:
Something strange happend yesterday:
I played with some settings, i searched the menu for the "pass" option. And while i played with the lumagen scaler i also changed tha resolution of the HDDvD player to 1080p/24. And i cant believe it, it did work. I was able to look 2 movies with 1080p/24 input scaled to 720p/71.93 When i hit the "OK" button, it shows me 1080p 24 input. The picture was completly stutter free, perfekt and smooth
But now i tried it again, but it wont work anymore. Damn, i dont know whats wrong.
So it seems that also the Lumagen DVI is able to handle that resolution, but lumangen disable it. Seems they want to sell the high price scalers first.
Yes, they disable 1080p output and 1080p input on the Lumagen DVI. Same code runs on both. By switching the resolutions, you may have "fooled" it into allowing it until the power off. They could enable 1080p/24 if they wanted, but as you stated, I don't think they want to.
Malakay wrote:
Is it possible to pay an update price to lumagen and i can get an vision vdp??
The trade in value of the DVI is $300 if you want to upgrade to any of their other devices. _________________ Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 12856 Location: West Seneca NY
TV/Projector: Marquee 8000, 8500 And a 9500LC RetroIV , 2 Longbow 8500 Ultras(2004!!)Hd145's , Ampro 3600, a G90!!
Link Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:55 pm Post subject:
Malakay wrote:
Lol, seems that i found out how to force the Vision DVI to accept 1080p/24
Can i post it here? Or can the forum get problems? Its legal, no modification in firmware or hardware, only in the settings.
I also did a complete restart of all components(i removed it from mains) and it still works.
The lumagen DVI outputs perfect, stutterfree picture
thats what this forum is for, showing new ideas and discussing them, go for it if they delete then you know its not ok
You might just have to hit the save in the menu to save what you did also from your previous post.
Athanasios _________________ Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"The government can't control the economy without controlling the people" RR
One Smart Dog!!! Tom Bauerle to Andre Cuomo" Elliot Spitzer Screwed some Prostitutes, you screwed the Constitution" On his call to Cuomo to Resign!!!
Link Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:48 pm Post subject:
Ok, this is the key for looking 1080p/24 and scale it down to 720p/71.93 with the cheap Vision DVI:
Menu
- IN
- Config
-DVI
-EDID
-USER
And in this USER settings, i changed all resolutions to "NO", except the 1080p/24and 1080p/25.
I did a restart of all components and after this, the scaler accept 1080p/24 input signal
Only problem with this: if i insert a normal DVD, the Toshiba HD player outputs 1080p/50, which is too much for the lumagen. So i used the YUV output and switch to YUV if i look dvd, and back to DVI if i want to look HD material.
I dont know if it works with all firmware version, i use the latest one from the website. So hurry and download it before lumagen disable this option
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4901 Location: Flower Mound, TX
Link Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:39 pm Post subject:
Malakay wrote:
Ok, this is the key for looking 1080p/24 and scale it down to 720p/71.93 with the cheap Vision DVI:
Menu
- IN
- Config
-DVI
-EDID
-USER
And in this USER settings, i changed all resolutions to "NO", except the 1080p/24and 1080p/25.
I did a restart of all components and after this, the scaler accept 1080p/24 input signal
Only problem with this: if i insert a normal DVD, the Toshiba HD player outputs 1080p/50, which is too much for the lumagen. So i used the YUV output and switch to YUV if i look dvd, and back to DVI if i want to look HD material.
I dont know if it works with all firmware version, i use the latest one from the website. So hurry and download it before lumagen disable this option
Thanks for that!
I have a DVI with latest firmware, I'll give it a try when I get my 1080p/24 BD player (my Tosh A1 doesn't do that and I'm not upgrading it NOW. ). _________________ Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
Link Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 4:15 pm Post subject:
Hehe, no problem, i like to help ppl if i can
Did it work for you wiht your BluRay player? I am planning to get a PS3 for playing and film. But i think this should not be a problem
Anyone here tryed to upload the HDP firmware on the DVI?
I am wondering if this would work or my DVI is dead after this. The option is selectable in the firmware update toll, but i was to scared and did select DVI Firmware
Oh, and what bandwidth do you need for 1080i/72?? Maybe i also try this But my crt only can handle 84KHz
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4901 Location: Flower Mound, TX
Link Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 2:36 pm Post subject:
Malakay wrote:
Did it work for you wiht your BluRay player? I am planning to get a PS3 for playing and film. But i think this should not be a problem
Don't have a 1080p/24 source, but will in about 1 week. I'll let you know.
Malakay wrote:
Anyone here tryed to upload the HDP firmware on the DVI?
I think the updater checks the hardware and won't install if not the correct hardware. But I could be wrong. In any case, the HDP firmware would not work on the DVI because it attempts to scale in 10 bit space and the DVI (I think) is hardware limited to 8 bit space.
Malakay wrote:
Oh, and what bandwidth do you need for 1080i/72?? Maybe i also try this But my crt only can handle 84KHz
You are confusing bandwidth and scanning frequency. 85KHz is the max scanning frequency. 1080p/60 is only 67KHz! As far as bandwidth, 1080i/72 takes less bandwidth than 720p/72! _________________ Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4901 Location: Flower Mound, TX
Link Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject:
Malakay wrote:
Did it work for you wiht your BluRay player?
With an LG BH100 combo player, I did not have to turn everything off but 1080p/24. I turned off all the AAAxBBB resolutions and I had to turn off 1080i. So, the only ones I left on where:
480i
480p
720p
1080p/24
With these settings, the LG selected 1080p/24 by itself since it was the best resolution. When I put in a DVD to the LG, I can then select 480p from the LG resolution menu. If I take off 720p (so just 480i, 480p, and 1080p/24 are left on), the the LG goes to 1080p/24 with HD DVDs and BD and 480p for DVD automatically. I've set up MEMA and MEMB with the same settings. MEMA is calibrated for HD and MEMB is calibrated for SD. All works flawlessly.
I'm about to compare the Oppo 970 (which does 480i over HDMI) to the LG doing 480p on DVDs to see if the Oppo even needs to stay in the rack. _________________ Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4901 Location: Flower Mound, TX
Link Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject:
Malakay wrote:
SD -> befors starting SD DVD film, i take a look if setting is at 1080i
the 1080p/24 is converted to 1080i/48 with the lumagen -> looks very good
What is your source? The Lumagen will probably scale DVDs to 1080i better than your source. Try outputting 480p to the Lumagen and see if it looks better. One of the tell tales is to put in a 2.35 movie. With the Lumagen, you will not see ringing at the edge of the letterbox bars and the image, with your source, you probably will.
Malakay wrote:
the 1080i is pass through in the lumagen
Actually, the Lumagen will always deinterlace 1080i even if it reinterlaces it. This is also why 480p from a DVD player would be better than 1080i. I have talked to Randy, Patrick, and even Jim at Lumagen, and no one could tell me how to get the Lumagen to leave a 1080i signal alone and only do frame rate conversion of the 540 fields. Just an FYI. _________________ Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
Link Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 3:28 pm Post subject:
I use the Toshiba HD XE1 (HD-XA2 in USA). There is a Reon-VX scaling chip in the player who did a good picture(with edge enhancement which pushes the dvd to another lvl)
This is the reason why i use the internal. But i will test if 480p looks better. When i had the time, the sun is so great atm, so i will not be often in my homecinema
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4901 Location: Flower Mound, TX
Link Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 3:35 pm Post subject:
Malakay wrote:
I use the Toshiba HD XE1 (HD-XA2 in USA). There is a Reon-VX scaling chip in the player who did a good picture(with edge enhancement which pushes the dvd to another lvl)
Well, this will scale at least as good as the DVI. So, the only issue is going to be the Lumagen's deinterlacing. If the lumagen doesn't mess up the 1080i, then coming of the XA2 may be better. _________________ Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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