CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

ADRIANKELLY · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 185 Location: Anchorage Alaska

Has anyone added a power amp to a Denon or similar AVR ? If so what improvement did it make ? What type of amp is considered best sound for a reasonable price ? Does anyone have a reasonable amp for sale ? BTW I have Ascend Acoustic Speakers 340SE mains and 4 170SE surrounds with 4 HSU Subs.

ecrabb · Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 7:51 pm Post subject:

My Marantz probably has a pretty similar amp in it (compared to your 3808ci), but is a little smaller at 105wpc vs. 130wpc. I have relatively inefficient 4-ohm M&K mains... The Marantz sounded great with them, but just didn't have much oomph. I liked the sound, but it was just a little "weak" or "thin", and it definitely didn't have much "authority" at higher SPL's. The problem was compounded when I put up some basic absorptive sound treatments. Then, I had to drive it even a little harder to get the same SPL, which meant it sounded even weaker and more strained. I went from listing at -10dB for "demo" mode to more like -0dB.

So, I had heard prosound amps in two other HT's, and the price was pretty reasonable with rebates, so I added a couple of Crown XLS-202's. I was really blown away by the change. Huge difference. Going from 105wpc to 200wpc (actually probably 150wpc or so to 300wpc into the 4-ohm M&K's), I guess I shouldn't have been that surprised, but I really was amazed at just how much better - not just louder - it sounded.

Right away, it was obvious that the sound had a more authoritative "punch" to it. Mid-bass and percussion like toms and kicks actually had a "feel" to them at higher SPL's. Dynamics like guitar strings were much more articulate.

There are several threads discussing amps, and all the options. Prosound is much cheaper in bang-for-buck department, but most of them have fans - so, unless you want to mod them or you have a separate equipment room, they're not an option for most. Audiophile stuff is pretty price (several times that of the receiver), but obviously has no fans.

I would image it will probably really depend on your room, how powerful the Denon AVR amp is, and how efficient the Ascends are when it comes to wheter you'll see a huge difference or not in the sound.

Do a search for Crown, Behringer, and Emotiva and you'll find a couple of the threads where we were discussing separate amps, and the price, pros and cons of some different options.

SC

ADRIANKELLY · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 185 Location: Anchorage Alaska

The Emotive was one I have considered and have looked at the A site for more recommendations .I remember Curt had mentioned some cheap pro amps that were cheap and powerful and I cant seem to find who else here was in a similar situation ,and was seeing if they had tried the (Curt) recommended amps.
The Ascend speakers are extremely efficient and in reality I am now considering just getting a min 3 or 4 channel amp to power the fronts and then using the Denon amps to biamp the 4 surrounds, does that sound like it would work ?

ecrabb · Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 6:06 pm Post subject:

I'm not sure you'd even need to bi-amp the surrounds. I don't know that there would be any significant difference between using 8 amp channels to power the 8 drivers or 4 amp channels to power the 4 drivers, since the amps are all sharing the same power supply. Total system output is probably significantly reduced the more amp channels you use. Besides, how would you use the amps in the receiver for anything other than what they were intended? I mean, you've got only 6 amps for the surround and surround backs (plus assignable zone 2), right? The other amps would be running the program material for the mains, so you couldn't use them. Or, did you mean bi-wiring as opposed to bi-amping?

Regardless, I think running the mains off an outboard amp or two, and the surrounds on the receiver is an excellent way to maximize performance without breaking the bank. The bandwidth, dynamics, and articulation isn't nearly as critical for the surround channels as for the mains, and the AVR's map power supply would be freed up big time not running the mains.

That's how I run my system. The LCR's are on 3 channels of the two Crowns, and my 3 surround channels (I'm running 6.1) are running off the AVR.

SC

ADRIANKELLY · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 185 Location: Anchorage Alaska

I need to do more research ,I am new to the ext amp idea and don't even know the difference of bi-wiring and bi-amping.

I was under the impression that the more amplifiers you use the higher quality output you would get because you would be limiting the wattage needed for a higher output levels and it would reduce the heat within the amp .
I was also under the impression that audessey would work better with using all available amps.

papalek · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 1537 Location: Longs SC

I am using six Carver amps and two Crown amps totaling over 7000 watts. I do not use any of the internal amps in the AVR. The power makes everything sound clear as a bell.

ADRIANKELLY · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 185 Location: Anchorage Alaska

Would this do?
It is local and any deal I might find elsewhere would automatically add $150-200 for shipping . Yes we get screwed in Anchorage for all shipping.
http://anchorage.craigslist.org/ele/680581362.html

ADRIANKELLY · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 185 Location: Anchorage Alaska

Does anyone know why the 7 channel amp costs less than the 5 channel?
http://emotiva.com/lpa1.html
http://emotiva.com/xpa5.html

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 5:56 am Post subject:

Power. The 5 channel amp puts out more per channel than the 7 channel one.

enigma · Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 24 Location: Australia

Hi, nice speakers.

I run my surround processor into individual power amplifiers (one for each speaker - also bi-wired) and recommend this is the way to go.

The result is a clearer sound with crisper highs and deeper bass.

You will get an improvement if you by the right amp for your speakers. Check the specs of your speakers and look at sensitivity, if they are rated 89db or higher @ 1 watt @ 1 meter, you will be ok with 50w and above from an amp.

If the sensitivity is only 86db, then you will need 100w as a minimum.

Always try to stick with 100w per channel anyway.

Bi-wireable is when you use 4 core speaker wire, connect two + and two - together at one end, plug these into their respective + & - on the amp and then each 4 (at other end) + & - on the 4 seperatey marked (+&-) connectors on the back of your speakers. Make sure you take off the two little gold strips that connect the two + and two - together on the back of the speakers.

Bi amp, same as above except you use two amps as opposed to one and instead of having two + & - (wire) together at the amp end, you leave them seperate. The important thing here is to have one amp run the tweeters + & - on the speakers (L&R) and the other run the bass + & - on the speakers (L&R).

What bire wire (smaller scale improvement) & bi amp (bigger improvement) is supposed to do is improve the clarity, bass treble, soundstage (stereo), depth of field, etc etc.

Your rear speakers are not bi-wirable, only the 3 front ones.

Hope this helps.

I run valve amps on my system as opposed to solid state & that is another can of worms.

Cheers.