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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17844 Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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Link Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 7:06 pm Post subject: Colorimeter comparison: Spyder2 (boo!) vs. Eye-One (yay!) |
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Got my Eye-One Display LT package today!
I'll be doing some "formal" and polished comparisons in my in my GREYSCALE CALIBRATION FOR DUMMIES guide but I thought some people may like a quick review of it:
- They Eye-One is a hell of a lot faster at reading than the Spyder2 it's not even funny. More than 3 times faster on average! In continuous read mode the data updates every second instead of every 3-20 seconds as with the Spyder2.
- You don't have to adjust the read time for the Eye-one. It extends the read time at lower IREs as needed to get accurate readings instead of the Spyder2 which will give you inconsistent numbers unless you increase the read time. The end result is that you're constantly fussing with the read time with the Spyder2, or have it set so high that readings are very slow. Even at 10 IRE the Eye-One only needs about 2 seconds instead of 20 seconds for the Spyder2.
- The bundled software that the Eye-One Display 2 package comes with for doing computer displays/laptops is a lot nicer/polished and lets you choose different colour temps and gamma. The Spyder 2 Express software gives you next to nothing.
- The big one: It's a lot more accurate! I calibrated my laptop quickly using the bundled software with both and it just doesn't look right with the Spyder2. With the Eye-One the result is perfect with great shadow detail. With the Spyder2 I just didn't end up using it. It just wasn't right. It was that obvious.
- One of the reasons for the increased accuracy in the Eye-One is the fact that you quickly calibrate it before use every time (by placing it on a flat surface and clicking the mouse). The Spyder2 doesn't have any sort of calibration so over time and in varying temperatures it'll drift.
Here are some screenshots of my laptop's greyscale to show how the Eye-One does better than the Spyder2:
Gamma:
Solid yellow line is the Eye-One, dotted yellow is the Spyder2. Notice how much closer to the target Eye-One gets than the Spyder2.
RGB levels:
Solid R/G/B lines are the Eye-One, dotted R/G/B lines are the Spyder2. Notice how the Eye-One lines do not have the same problem at 10-30 IRE that the Spyder2 does. The lines curve away from the 100% target for the Spyder the farther down you go. The Spyder2 (or is it just my unit?) just doesn't seem to be able to read accurately below 40 IRE.
The funny thing is I spent a hell of a lot of time pulling my hair out a few weeks ago trying to "fix" a apparent greyscale problem on my front projector setup where the blue curved downwards too much in the lower IRE range. Now that I see this graph for my laptop and see how the Spyder2 is actually behaving, I bet that my graphs for my CRT projector are actually fine! It's the Spyder2 that just wasn't reading right in the first place! %*&$%@! I could have sworn I had a good one!
More testing is required but at this point I highly suggest the nobody waste even ~$60-70 on the Spyder2. Get the Eye-One for about $140 for the Eye-One Display LT package or ~$195 Eye-One Display 2 package which comes with more tools for digital photographers (actually thinking I should have splurged the extra $45 for the Display 2 package as I could have used some of those tools as I do a lot of digital photo work too. Damn - I ordered too fast without really reading.)
I don't understand how they can sell the Spyder2. It just doesn't seem to be correct. At least not mine. If it wasn't for the fact that I've had it for almost 2 years I'd return it.
Kal
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Last edited by kal on Tue May 06, 2008 7:22 pm; edited 3 times in total
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12021 Location: Fort Collins, CO
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Link Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, that low-IRE response is really messed up. Kal, it would be an interesting experiment to try calculating a correction matrix to make the Spyder match the Eye-One. Since you do that using readings at 100IRE, it should cause the Spyder to match the Eye-One at 100IRE. But given what you're showing above, I doubt the Spyder will look much better at the low IREs than it does now.
Nuts. I was hoping to calculate a correction matrix for my Spyder and sell my old Minolta colorimeter. Guess I'll sell the Minolta and buy an Eye-One...
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007 Posts: 1069 Location: Charlotte, NC
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Link Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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I'm reluctantly going to order the Eye-One as it seems I jumped the gun with the Spyder. That figures as I typically talk myself out of things for months before committing to buy. I might even have a good Spyder but seeing as how I'm new to greyscale calibration and colorimeters in general, I would rather not take a chance and waste my time with something that may not yield accurate results. I'm sorry that you spent so much time with the Spyder only to be disappointed Kal but on the positive side it allowed you to write the guide that I will hopefully be able to follow as others here have. I appreciate your hard work on this and I'm sure the other "dummies" like me do as well. Or...am I the only dummy here?
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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Link Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Anybody ever tried to return stuff to Amazon? I bought the Spyder at Amazon and would obviously rather just return than have to sell on ebay (I already have too much crap to ebay). Damn, I have those stupid mounts to get rid of now, too. Sigh. More crap to ebay.
SC
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007 Posts: 1069 Location: Charlotte, NC
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Link Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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ecrabb wrote: | Anybody ever tried to return stuff to Amazon? I bought the Spyder at Amazon and would obviously rather just return than have to sell on ebay (I already have too much crap to ebay). Damn, I have those stupid mounts to get rid of now, too. Sigh. More crap to ebay.
SC |
I need to do the same thing and started through the process but stopped. It let me get as far as printing a postage paid shipping label but the fine print said it was for DVD's, CD's and software only so I stopped.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17844 Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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Link Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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SC:
The problem with returning colorimeters is that most stores do not allow you to do this as it's the sort of thing that people tend to buy, use once, and then return. (Ever try and buy the $80 BNC crimpers at Home Depot? Same thing).
Amazon's great for returns though, so I would try if I were you. Out of all the online stores I've bought things at (upwards of 100 probably) Amazon's been the absolute best to deal with. I bet they would accept it. I would try. Let us know how it goes.
Don't go through the regular return method. Just call them directly and explain your story. Maybe if enough people return their Spyder2's word will get back to the manufacturer and they'll stop making this junk.
Kal
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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Link Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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kal wrote: | (Ever try and buy the $80 BNC crimpers at Home Depot? Same thing). |
Apparently, you have!
Exactly. I thought if I got somebody on the phone and could both set up the return for the Spyder (the $70 doodad) and setup the order for the EyeOne (the $150-200 doodad), then they'd know I wasn't doing the "use and return" routine and it would be obvious that I was indeed trading the defective/junk product for the superior product - and spending more money in the process.
I'll give it a whirl and see what happens.
Thanks,
SC
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17844 Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007 Posts: 1069 Location: Charlotte, NC
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Link Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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kal wrote: |
P.S. Never tried getting the BNC crimpers that way , just that whenever I wanted to buy them or other similar items they're not out in the open. You have to ask someone to unlock a cabinet for you. |
Funny! I went to Lowes looking for some of those once and they were out of them. The guy told me to wait a day or two and someone would return a pair and then I could buy them and do the same thing! Fortunately, my cable guy lives close by and lets me borrow those and any other cable tv tools I might need.
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waho63
Joined: 30 Apr 2008 Posts: 3
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Link Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:22 pm Post subject: Same tests with spyder3 ? |
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did you plan any similar with the new spyder3?
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GEBrown
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 729 Location: Denver
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Link Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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FWIW, the same conclusion was reached by members of the Display Calibration forum over on the A-site. They had professional colorimeters - laboratory grade instruments - to compare their results to.
While they didn't say the Spyder was trash, the DisplayLT was noted as being the best of the low-cost colorimeters.
Tom Huffman who has a pretty good reputation over there for knowing what he is talking about says the same thing in his Basic Guide to Color Calibration using a CMS (updated and enhanced) at this URL: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852536
My 2 cents,
Gary
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GEBrown
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 729 Location: Denver
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Link Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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garyfritz wrote: | . . . .
Nuts. I was hoping to calculate a correction matrix for my Spyder and sell my old Minolta colorimeter. Guess I'll sell the Minolta and buy an Eye-One... |
Gary,
I have a Display LT that you can borrow to make sure it is what you want before you spend the money.
Just let me know when you will have time to spend on it and I'll mail it to you.
OK?
Gary
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17844 Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 5643 Location: Comedy Central
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Link Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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ecrabb wrote: | kal wrote: | (Ever try and buy the $80 BNC crimpers at Home Depot? Same thing). |
Apparently, you have!
Exactly. I thought if I got somebody on the phone and could both set up the return for the Spyder (the $70 doodad) and setup the order for the EyeOne (the $150-200 doodad), then they'd know I wasn't doing the "use and return" routine and it would be obvious that I was indeed trading the defective/junk product for the superior product - and spending more money in the process.
I'll give it a whirl and see what happens.
Thanks,
SC |
That should probably work. I would also add that if they don't take it in return than you will purchase the EyeOne somewhere else.
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Posts: 2920 Location: Ithaca, NY
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Link Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:25 am Post subject: |
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I get that low IREs are tough to measure, but sheesh.. half the point of a colorimeter is to get stuff right down there! You'd think they'd be extra careful to make the thing reasonably accurate.
Has anybody tested using a reasonably good digital camera to get this kind of data? Essentially a colorimeter is a one pixel digital camera, so it seems it ought to work if you have raw data output. At least it'd be interesting to compare results with a colorimeter, which I cannot, since I don't have one.
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mike calcott
Joined: 18 May 2006 Posts: 307 Location: Australia
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Link Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 4:12 am Post subject: |
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Would a conventional web cam with a higher pixel count achieve a better result?
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Posts: 2920 Location: Ithaca, NY
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Link Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:29 am Post subject: |
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A webcam will do auto white balancing and other stuff to try to make the image look good, so it'll be useless for any kind of calibration. You'd need a camera that can output completely raw sensor data, and to use software which lets you have access to it.
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delphiplasma
Joined: 06 May 2008 Posts: 14
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Link Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Kal,
Glad you enjoy the Eye One Hardware.
Unfortunately, the software is not compatible with Plasma displays, and the manufacturers have stated that it will not be accurate for Plasma displays.
I must say that I find the HCFR software more comprehensive than the Eye One 2 software.
Can't wait to see your findings documented for this Sensor!
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