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'Greyscale & Colour Calibration for Dummies' Q/A thread
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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D65 is the standard for all display types for watching colour content. Gamma may vary a bit depending on who you talk to from 2.2 to 2.3 or even as high as 2.5 if you watch in a bat-cave and have a display technology that does true black or close to true black.

You're right: The guide does indeed show you how to calibrate to D65 and Rec601/709 with whatever gamma you want to use.

Kal

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fallengt




Joined: 09 Mar 2012
Posts: 9



PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm about to calibrate my 2nd HDTV, to watch cable TV mostly... here are some confusing things b4 to get it started:

- TV programs are in SD (NTSC). But i don't have any SD test disc, I only use the AVSHD709. Should i use it and which colorspace in HCFR shoud I set to (REC 601 ?)
- In CMS adjusment part. We have to adjust primary colors' brightness to match with 100% white Y. The Lightness you mentioned in this section = RGB LowEnd (brightness)? My TV has RGB brightness/contrast to adjust 2-points greyscale and primary & secondary colors' Sat & Tint adjustment and I can't tell which is lightness control ( if it wasnt RGB brightness) here...
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SecondaryColorsSent




Joined: 13 Feb 2012
Posts: 7



PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:00 am    Post subject: DeltaE for Greyscale Reply with quote

Hi Kal,

Which DeltaE are you using for greyscale calibration? Oh, I saw you in the AVS forum the other day. Ha ha...I was kind of surprised to see you there.

Thanks.
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fallengt wrote:
I'm about to calibrate my 2nd HDTV, to watch cable TV mostly... here are some confusing things b4 to get it started:

- TV programs are in SD (NTSC). But i don't have any SD test disc, I only use the AVSHD709. Should i use it and which colorspace in HCFR shoud I set to (REC 601 ?)

Set it to whatever the test disc is.

Quote:
- In CMS adjusment part. We have to adjust primary colors' brightness to match with 100% white Y. The Lightness you mentioned in this section = RGB LowEnd (brightness)? My TV has RGB brightness/contrast to adjust 2-points greyscale and primary & secondary colors' Sat & Tint adjustment and I can't tell which is lightness control ( if it wasnt RGB brightness) here...

I have no idea.

Kal

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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:32 am    Post subject: Re: DeltaE for Greyscale Reply with quote

SecondaryColorsSent wrote:
Which DeltaE are you using for greyscale calibration?

I don't understand the question. DeltaE is a level of error. You don't "use" it.

Quote:
Oh, I saw you in the AVS forum the other day. Ha ha...I was kind of surprised to see you there.

Been a member there since 2000, over 7000+ posts.

Kal

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SecondaryColorsSent




Joined: 13 Feb 2012
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:49 am    Post subject: Re: DeltaE for Greyscale Reply with quote

[quote="kal"][quote="SecondaryColorsSent"]Which DeltaE are you using for greyscale calibration?[/quote]
I don't understand the question. DeltaE is a level of error. You don't "use" it.

[quote]Oh, I saw you in the AVS forum the other day. Ha ha...I was kind of surprised to see you there. [/quote]
Been a member there since 2000, over 7000+ posts.

Kal[/quote]

When you recommend getting the Delta's below 10, are you referring to Cie94, cie76, etc....


Thanks.
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Afraid I have no idea what deltaE calculations ColorHCFR uses. Calibrators usually always refer to CIE 1931 and say that a DeltaE under 10 is ok and a DeltaE under 3 is no visible to the human eye. YMMV.

Kal

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Adhanda




Joined: 05 Jun 2012
Posts: 6



PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:51 am    Post subject: DVE NTSC DVD only has 4 Greyscale levels Reply with quote

Colour Cal Guide says NTSC DVE DVD works with HCFR software, but the DVD only has 4 greyscale levels - 20, 40 80, 100%...HCFR needs 10 right?

Thanks.
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:58 am    Post subject: Re: DVE NTSC DVD only has 4 Greyscale levels Reply with quote

Adhanda wrote:
Colour Cal Guide says NTSC DVE DVD works with HCFR software, but the DVD only has 4 greyscale levels - 20, 40 80, 100%...HCFR needs 10 right?

I've never used the DVD version. If it only has 20 IRE steps then I'd recommend using the 80 and 20 or 40 IRE points.

You don't "need" step of 10 IRE to calibrate, but having them gives you more flexibility. When you run measurements from0 to 100 in HCFR there's likely a way to only do 20/40/80/100. Off the top of my head I'm not sure of the steps.

Kal

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HogPilot




Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383


TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:03 pm    Post subject: Re: DeltaE for Greyscale Reply with quote

SecondaryColorsSent wrote:
kal wrote:
SecondaryColorsSent wrote:
Which DeltaE are you using for greyscale calibration?

I don't understand the question. DeltaE is a level of error. You don't "use" it.
Kal


When you recommend getting the Delta's below 10, are you referring to Cie94, cie76, etc....


Thanks.


IIRC, most pro calibrators use CIE94 for color and CIE76 for greyscale errors. I may have those backwards, but I'm relatively positive that they use those for dE, because those standards use newer data and better account for how errors in lightness account for our perception of color error. Normally I could dig one of the answers out of a couple calibration threads on AVS but it's down right now.

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ecrabb wrote:
Curt Palme wrote:
Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure.

He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.

SC
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GrandPixel




Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 2



PostLink    Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The calibration for dummies thread says it's for people who don't want a doctorate in colorimetry, but I found it to be very verbose and complicated, repeating the same thoughts all the time - full of good information, but difficult to understand.

I have an HD20 and just received my X-Rite ColorMunki display. Is there an updated version of the "dummies" thread?
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kal
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TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrandPixel wrote:
The calibration for dummies thread says it's for people who don't want a doctorate in colorimetry, but I found it to be very verbose and complicated, repeating the same thoughts all the time - full of good information, but difficult to understand.

I have an HD20 and just received my X-Rite ColorMunki display. Is there an updated version of the "dummies" thread?

No. There is no other version. The steps performed are the required steps.

It is indeed verbose at 20,000 words or so however. I found it was important to explain some of the principles so that people would understand what they were doing as every calibration is slightly different. Just presenting a series of steps leaves too many unanswered questions.

The ColorHCFR software you're using is 100% free but it has no workflow built in at all. It's basically just a bunch of graphs that you can use to take measurements. You need to know what order to do things in and how to interpret the results. This is why I write the "Dummies" guide. If you don't want to have to read/follow a guide like mine, consider ChromaPure software. It has a good workflow process. In fact, I based my workflow in the "dummies" guide off of ChromaPure. ChromaPure is like my "dummies" guide but walks you through the steps so a written guide isn't needed. It tells you what to do.

If you want completely automated calibration consider going to the next level: ChromaPure auto-calibrate. It requires absolutely no knowledge of calibration nor do you have to even perform the calibration. You simply click a button and it performs the calibration automatically and stores the results in a video processor (Duo or Radiance) that sits in the signal path before your display. This solution is more expensive of course. ChromaPure is not free, nor is the video processor. Auto-calibrate can give you a much more accurate calibration since 20+ point can be adjusted in the video processor instead of only 2 or so as is usually done in the display.

ChromaPure also does not support the ColorMunki meter however.

Links:

ChromaPure: http://www.curtpalme.com/ChromaPure.shtm
Radiance video processor: http://www.curtpalme.com/Radiance.shtm
Duo video processor: http://www.curtpalme.com/ChromaPure_iScanDuo.shtm

Kal

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MSL_DK




Joined: 16 Oct 2012
Posts: 1



PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for a well written and extremely useful guide.

I am the owner of a Spyder4 pro and have the following options

A refresh type display with a generic calibration
A non-refresh type display with a generic calibration [Default]
LCD, CCFL Backlight
Wide Gamut LCD, CCFL Backlight
LCD, White LED Backlight
Wide Gamut LCD, RGB LED Backlight
LCD, CCFL Type 2 Backlight

I'm about to calibrate an Samsung UE46D5000 edge-LED screen, do you know which option to choose?

The TV is connected to a PC with full rgb and is calibrated through it.
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MSL_DK wrote:
I'm about to calibrate an Samsung UE46D5000 edge-LED screen, do you know which option to choose?

I do not, sorry. I've never seen/used that TV or meter.

Kal

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johnnywyoming




Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 2



PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very glad that I have discovered this forum and the calibration info. I will be adding an Oppo BDP 103 to my system in the next few months and have a few questions. TV is a Samsung 61" DLP. I have the DVE standard calibration disc and a EyeOne Display 2/LT that I calibrate my computer monitor with. From reading and searching through this forum and the ColorHCFR info I am fairly certain that I have all I need, but, would it be beneficial to upgrade to the DVE disc for Blu-Ray?

Also, I have searched this forum for similar information on 5.1 audio setup but can't find it... is there a link?

Again, thanks, this looks like it will be the answer to fine tuning the home theater!
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnnywyoming wrote:
Very glad that I have discovered this forum and the calibration info. I will be adding an Oppo BDP 103 to my system in the next few months and have a few questions. TV is a Samsung 61" DLP. I have the DVE standard calibration disc and a EyeOne Display 2/LT that I calibrate my computer monitor with. From reading and searching through this forum and the ColorHCFR info I am fairly certain that I have all I need, but, would it be beneficial to upgrade to the DVE disc for Blu-Ray?

If you wish to calibrate colours to Rec709 (HD) standards then yes. The primary/secondary colour points are different than with Rec601 (standard def). Greyscale does not change.

For more information on this see the guide.

Quote:
Also, I have searched this forum for similar information on 5.1 audio setup but can't find it... is there a link?

Nope. At least nothing I've written. I've seen some articles over the years but they're usually fairly high level.

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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johnnywyoming




Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 2



PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Kal, What about the Disney WOW disc... Does it include the correct test patterns? It is $$ less that the DVE Blu-ray
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnnywyoming wrote:
Thanks Kal, What about the Disney WOW disc... Does it include the correct test patterns? It is $$ less that the DVE Blu-ray

I don't know. I have the disc but have only glanced at it quickly (I was sent a free copy by the manufacturer). Without going through it carefully step by step to make sure it's all there, I don't know if it'll work.

Kal

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Samsungfan




Joined: 27 Dec 2012
Posts: 5



PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:29 am    Post subject: eye one meters still a good idea? Reply with quote

Hi Kal,

I am about to attempt your do it yourself calibration using your dummies guide. It looks fantastic and im very excited to go step by step through it.

the TV i am going to calibrate is a PN43E450. a 43inch plasma from samsung

I have purchased a tripod and the DVE HD basics, and now I need a meter. So my question is:


Do you still recommend the Eyeone display 2 or LT? Or is there a newer bigger and better meter out there you recommend in the same league as those Eyeones? I read many reviews on amazon.com about those two eyeone meters and there seems to be mixed results, which makes me leery about purchasing one

thanks so much!
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Display 2/LT still work reasonably well. The Display 3 is a considerably better step up but it is not natively supported by ColorHCFR software. Some intrepid users have supposedly taken the software and modified it to make it work however from what I understand. I remember seeing threads about it over at AVSforum.com some time ago.

Kal

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