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David_Web
Joined: 02 May 2007 Posts: 418 Location: Sweden
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Link Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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Or just leave the browser open.
_________________ SNR of people are ridiculously low.
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LastButNotLeast
Joined: 15 May 2008 Posts: 13 Location: 08077
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Link Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 12:09 am Post subject: Mac users |
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kal wrote: | I guess I figured in this day and age everyone had a $20 wireless router as I don't think any laptops built in the last 4-5 years come without wireless.
Kal |
Bingo. Hence this post:
Fellow Mac users will be happy to know that I have successfully used HCFR software and the Eye One sensor on a G3 iBook running OS 10.2.8 under Virtual PC 6.1.2. Only "problem" is that it needs to be set for CRT, not LCD. And, of course, you have to put up with XP.
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delphiplasma
Joined: 06 May 2008 Posts: 14
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Link Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:52 am Post subject: |
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Hi,
You may, or may not, remember I originally had a gamma problem with my Sony Plasma display. This I have managed to rectify. The problem being with the DVD player. A control, that Sony labels 'DVE' (Digital video enhancement) and is described in the Sony manual as a sharpness control, was the problem. Came by it by accident. I noticed the Grey scale ramp shifting as I moved it from the 3 settings. The control has a distinct effect on the gamma.
Also, I originally posed a question to the forum as to which sensor configuration to use for the following:
Eye one sensor
HCFR Software
Plasma display
After being told to use the 'LCD' setting, rather than the 'Plasma' setting, that I had been using, I set about testing the measurements for the 2 modes.
Both modes show the same measurements for gamma, but when it comes to grey scale measurement, the measurements are very different. What mode should I be using to measure a plasma display?
Thanks
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17860 Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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GGA
Joined: 19 May 2008 Posts: 3 Location: Topanga CA
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Link Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Graph 2 - Gamma:
Gamma (or more accurately the gamma correction value) controls the overall brightness of an image or how fast the brightness curve comes out of fast. |
Not sure what that means. Should the last "fast" read "black"?????????
Also if the projector is HD like all the new 1080p digitals, shouldn't we always use Rec709 to calibrate even if the source is SD?
Congratulations on this exceptional tutorial. I have always wanted to do a calibration but have resisted for all the reasons you listed in your introduction. The tutorial has inspired to buy the colorimeter and attempt my own calibration. Many, many thanks.
Look forward to the next installments.
=
George
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17860 Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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Link Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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GGA: Thanks for heads up - yes, that should be "how fast the brightness curve comes out of BLACK".
Re: using Rec601 or 709, use 709 if you watch any HD material on the display. It won't matter for the greyscale calibration however, only when you go to measure primaries (the upcoming section that's taking me forever to find the time to write - I'm about 1/2 done so far).
Kal
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CRT_Ben
Joined: 28 Aug 2006 Posts: 1684 Location: Northern Virginia
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Link Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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While we're playing editor, here's something I noticed:
"To adjust electronically either use the remote (on newer electrostatic CRT projectors) or the G2 pot (older electromagnetic CRT projectors). See your user manual on how to access this control. "
Electrostatic and electromagnetic should be reversed.
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12026 Location: Fort Collins, CO
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Link Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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kal wrote: | Re: using Rec601 or 709, use 709 if you watch any HD material on the display. It won't matter for the greyscale calibration however, only when you go to measure primaries (the upcoming section that's taking me forever to find the time to write - I'm about 1/2 done so far). |
So as part of that, have you tried that test we discussed, displaying SD and HD content to see if the primaries change? I'm 100% sure they can't, but.....
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17860 Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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Link Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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CRT_Ben wrote: | While we're playing editor, here's something I noticed:
"To adjust electronically either use the remote (on newer electrostatic CRT projectors) or the G2 pot (older electromagnetic CRT projectors). See your user manual on how to access this control. "
Electrostatic and electromagnetic should be reversed. |
Oops! Yep. That's backwards. I'll fix it...
Gary: primaries are fixed for the display unless it has advanced CMS functionality. So it doesn't matter if the source is SD or HD, the primaries will display the same.
Kal
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delphiplasma
Joined: 06 May 2008 Posts: 14
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Link Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 7:29 am Post subject: |
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Phew!!! thanks for that, Kal.
Can't wait to see the Primaries/secondaries article!
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12026 Location: Fort Collins, CO
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Link Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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kal wrote: | Gary: primaries are fixed for the display unless it has advanced CMS functionality. So it doesn't matter if the source is SD or HD, the primaries will display the same. |
That's what I thought too, but I didn't think you were convinced when we last talked about it. Sounds like you are now.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17860 Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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SGN2008
Joined: 22 May 2008 Posts: 1 Location: THAILAND
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Link Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject: How to attach Eye-One Display LT to projector screen |
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Hi Kal,
I've read your GREYSCALE CALIBRATION FOR DUMMIES. I want to calibrate my DLP front projector. I plan to buy Eye-One Display LT. In STEP 1.11 in the guide, I don't see how to put Eye-One Display LT sensor on projector screen, please advise.
You guide is very useful, thanks a lot.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17860 Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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Link Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: How to attach Eye-One Display LT to projector screen |
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SGN2008 wrote: | Hi Kal,
I've read your GREYSCALE CALIBRATION FOR DUMMIES. I want to calibrate my DLP front projector. I plan to buy Eye-One Display LT. In STEP 1.11 in the guide, I don't see how to put Eye-One Display LT sensor on projector screen, please advise.
You guide is very useful, thanks a lot. |
I'm not sure what you mean or which part of STEP 1.11 isn't clear for someone with a front projector. Can you elaborate?
You attach the probe to your tripod (masking tape works fine) and face the screen. Here's what I wrote:
Quote: | For front projector setups with screens there's a bit more work involved: we need to position the sensor so that it's perfectly square to the screen. We do this by adjusting the position until the light reading we get is at a maximum. Attach the sensor to the tripod with some masking tape, rubber bands, or the free Spyder2 tripod mount. It doesn't have to be a good solid mount. It just needs to not move or shift while you take readings.
Forum member Andrew Low sent us this tip: A standard 1/4″-20 nut will screw onto a standard tripod mount. Simply glue the nut to the Spyder2 as follows:
Using your tripod, place the sensor 3-4 inches from the screen, slightly below center, and titled upwards facing the screen as shown here for the Spyder2:
A closeup:
The Eye-One probe attaches in a similar manner to the Spyder2 probe. Simply use masking tape or something similar to hold it to the tripod such that the little suction cups on the underside of the probe face the screen.
If your projetor is floor mounted you'll have to put the sensor off the side a bit and angle towards the center of the screen instead. Exact placement isn't critical at this point as we will be fine-tuning it in the following steps. |
Kal
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Plasmid
Joined: 25 May 2008 Posts: 4
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Link Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 12:29 am Post subject: |
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I'm quite surprised this thread is only three pages long.
I came across the grayscale guide a week or so ago. After quickly skimming through it, I felt overwhelmed and decided not to pursue this type of calibration. I already had the DVE blue-ray disc, and even though I wasn't very successful when I used it to try and calibrate my friend's LCD, I thought it was the best choice I had, especially since I wasn't going to spend hundreds of dollars to professionally calibrate my TV.
Last week, I got my own Samsung plasma and started breaking it in. That's when i came across your guide again. This time, I started reading it from the start. I think it was the testimonials that made me realize how simple the steps were presented. I think I only got to the equipment needed section when I rushed to Amazon and order the Eye-One Display LT. I have since read the guide once and re-read a great deal of it. I think I'm fully prepared for the actual calibration, which is great since the Eye-One arrives tomorrow.
It's funny: I'm more excited about calibrating it than I am about watching it.
I plan on taking a few before and after shots to compare and then share on this board. I'm all set, but I have some questions regarding my specific plasma TV:
1. I believe I've located my RBG HighEnd and RBG LowEnd controls, but I'd like to be positive before doing anything. In my picture settings menu, I have some controls under "White Balance." These controls are labeled either Offset or Gain, with each of the three colors corresponding to both. The R-Gain, G-Gain, and B-Gain are, of course, the RGB HighEnd controls. However, am I correct in assuming the R-Offset, G-Offset, and B-Offset are the RGB LowEnd controls?
2. I've turned off all advance settings (i.e. Digital NR, Movie Plus, Edge Enhancement). Should I also leave Black Adjust and Dynamic Contrast off as well?
3. Finally, I have something called My Colour Control, which controls individual Pink, Green, Blue, and White. Should I use this at all? I'm mostly referring to the last part of your guide, Advanced Colour Management. I don't have any options to adjust my set's primaries, so would these help in any way?
Thanks for the great guide and I'll hopefully be back tomorrow with my results.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17860 Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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Link Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 3:20 am Post subject: |
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Plasmid wrote: | It's funny: I'm more excited about calibrating it than I am about watching it. |
Welcome to the club!
Quote: | I plan on taking a few before and after shots to compare and then share on this board. |
That would be great! I've love to see them!
Quote: | 1. I believe I've located my RBG HighEnd and RBG LowEnd controls, but I'd like to be positive before doing anything. In my picture settings menu, I have some controls under "White Balance." These controls are labeled either Offset or Gain, with each of the three colors corresponding to both. The R-Gain, G-Gain, and B-Gain are, of course, the RGB HighEnd controls. However, am I correct in assuming the R-Offset, G-Offset, and B-Offset are the RGB LowEnd controls? |
I would assume they are. It certainly sounds like they are. I don't see what else they could be.
Quote: | 2. I've turned off all advance settings (i.e. Digital NR, Movie Plus, Edge Enhancement). Should I also leave Black Adjust and Dynamic Contrast off as well? |
Good question. Very display specific. What does the manual say those features do?
Quote: | 3. Finally, I have something called My Colour Control, which controls individual Pink, Green, Blue, and White. Should I use this at all? I'm mostly referring to the last part of your guide, Advanced Colour Management. I don't have any options to adjust my set's primaries, so would these help in any way? |
I don't know as I don't know what those controls do in your TV I'm afraid.
Kal
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LastButNotLeast
Joined: 15 May 2008 Posts: 13 Location: 08077
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Link Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 4:06 am Post subject: |
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Plasmid wrote: | Thanks for the great guide and I'll hopefully be back tomorrow with my results. |
Just make sure to write down your original settings and keep them in a safe place.
Learned that lesson (and many others) the hard way.
Good luck, and have fun.
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VideoGrabber
Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 933 Location: Michigan
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Link Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 9:29 am Post subject: |
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Plasmid commented:
> I'm quite surprised this thread is only three pages long. <
I'm not. It's to be expected, when the topic and discussion about it are separated. Proximity fosters a lot more immediate response.
Kal, while I agree with your decision to keep the main Guide topic locked, I really think you at least need to have a link from there over to here. When you conclude with, "Comments/corrections are appreciated! [Topic LOCKED]", it's like, "Huh? OK, where?". Sure, people can track it down, but that shouldn't be necessary. You'll get a lot more feedback if people can get here easily after reading the Guide.
_________________ - Tim
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17860 Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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Link Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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I do have a link Tim. In the closing comments section I say:
But then that's 20,000 words into the guide.
You're entirely correct that people will not post as much because the REPLY button is locked. I do this a little bit on purpose to make people have to look. When I allowed people to post directly in the thread, people would often ask questions for things that were already mentioned right in the guide. It's a quick knee-jerk reaction when you're allowed to post easily.
People just didn't spend the time to look around a bit right in the guide to get the answer they wanted. I really don't want to spend my entire life linking people to information already in the guide. So I make them hunt a bit. This way if/when they post, it's more likely to be a legit question or comment as they've read to the end and see where questions should be posted.
I also used to have my email address at the bottom of the guide, but I would much rather that people post on the forum so that when I reply others can benefit as well. It also gets them to register too. While I wrote this guide mostly for the 'greater good' of HT everywhere (sounds cheesy) at the same time I wrote it to get more people over to this site. The more eyes we get over here, the more successful we are. I'm trying to grow this site and forum as much as possible. I've posted links to this guide in over a dozen other HT forums and the response has been very good.
By all means, if any of you guys want to mention this guide anywhere please feel free to do so. I'm going to create a banner for it as well that people will be able to use on their own sites if they wish.
Kal
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Last edited by kal on Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Plasmid
Joined: 25 May 2008 Posts: 4
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Link Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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kal wrote: |
Quote: | 2. I've turned off all advance settings (i.e. Digital NR, Movie Plus, Edge Enhancement). Should I also leave Black Adjust and Dynamic Contrast off as well? |
Good question. Very display specific. What does the manual say those features do? |
Not much, unfortunately:
Black Adjust: Off/Low/Medium/High
You can directly select the black level on the screen to adjust the screen depth.
Dynamic Contrast: Off/Low/Medium/High
You can adjust the screen contrast so that the optimal contrast is provided.
From that description, I think leaving them off would be the better choice. It seems somewhat artificial from the description.
Anyway, two more minutes and I hit the 30-minute mark. My Eye-One has been warming up on my plasma long enough. I'll be back with the results when I'm done.
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