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'Greyscale & Colour Calibration for Dummies' Q/A thread
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15384
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:08 pm    Post subject: 'Greyscale & Colour Calibration for Dummies' Q/A thread Reply with quote


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We've locked the GREYSCALE & COLOUR CALIBRATION FOR DUMMIES guide to keep it clean for printing purposes, so feel free to post your questions or comments about the guide here instead!

Note:

This thread is only for questions/comments about the usage of the guide. I will use your comments and questions to maintain the guide and make sure it's easy to follow and as correct as possible.

Please don't post your calibration files or graphs in this thread asking for feedback on how to better calibrate your thread. Start a new thread instead. You'll get more responses this way too.

Questions about a specific display model (ex: "Where are the controls in my TV?") or questions on the results of your calibration (i.e. "How can I make it look better?") will not be answered here. Feel free to start a new thread.


DEC 2014: This thread's now locked too as the guide is deprecated.

Thanks!

Kal

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16165
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal I was over on the Calibraion AVS forums and Tom Huffman gave the advice to me that when pointing any colorimeter at a screen the diffusor is not needed because the screen acts as a diffusor. I know you said you have tried it both ways , do you think its because of the talked about inconsistancies with the Spyder TV that you were geting strange readings?

And Bear5k said this:
Quote:
We've found the consistency of the DisplayLT to be better than the Spyder2. We actually started by supporting the Spyder2, but had to quit recommending it once we started seeing significant inconsistencies in our sample (we have over 20 in-house).


What do you think? its in the thread :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13763748#post13763748

Athanasios

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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only strange readings I see with the spyder2 get are at 10 IRE if I use the default 300 ms read time. The readings are all over the place. If I increase the read time to 2000 ms then it reads perfectly and consistently from 10 to 100 IRE. That's not to say that the readings are ACCURATE, but at least they're CONSISTENT.

I've seen others mention that the DisplayLT is a better (more accurate) sensor. It's $140 which is more than twice the price of the $60 Spyder2. So if people want that last little bit of accuracy they can go for the DisplayLT instead of the Spyder. I mention both in the guide.

I'd have to try it again but it worked fine for me with the filter on. If it works with the filter off when facing the screen then that's ok too.

Kal

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dropzone7



Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC


PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal, do I need to do G2 calibration on my XG before attempting greyscale or is it the other way around?
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dropzone7 wrote:
Kal, do I need to do G2 calibration on my XG before attempting greyscale or is it the other way around?

See Step 3.3. It's done before you do the actual step 6 greyscale adjustments.

Kal

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dropzone7



Joined: 12 Jun 2007
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PostLink    Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great, now I read that this Spyder I just bought is a piece of crap...
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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PostLink    Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yepp it does suck if you got a bad one .I would suggest those who have it try it and see how it works you might be lucky and have a good one. I bought one just for the Greyscale calibration for dummies to compare to my Eye One display2LT and mine sucks. well so far i will try it again most likely on sunday.

Athanasios

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dropzone7



Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
yepp it does suck if you got a bad one .I would suggest those who have it try it and see how it works you might be lucky and have a good one. I bought one just for the Greyscale calibration for dummies to compare to my Eye One display2LT and mine sucks. well so far i will try it again most likely on sunday.

Athanasios


Yeah but if I'm a greyscale "dummy" how will I know the difference? Perhaps ignorance is bliss? Confused
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garyfritz



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 10339
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ideally you'd have somebody nearby with a known-good colorimeter, so you can see if your Spyder's readings match the reference. If your Spyder works OK but is just inaccurate, you can use HCFR 2.0.1 to compute a correction matrix that maps your bogus Spyder's readings onto the known-good readings.
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dropzone7 wrote:
Great, now I read that this Spyder I just bought is a piece of crap...

Sorry guys. Lots of people has comments on the Sypder2 including professional calibrators. I couldn't leave it as is and let people continue ordering it if indeed 2/3 of them are not very good.

Kal

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dropzone7



Joined: 12 Jun 2007
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PostLink    Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garyfritz wrote:
Ideally you'd have somebody nearby with a known-good colorimeter, so you can see if your Spyder's readings match the reference. If your Spyder works OK but is just inaccurate, you can use HCFR 2.0.1 to compute a correction matrix that maps your bogus Spyder's readings onto the known-good readings.


I'm sure your right Gary but that just sounds much more complicated than I wanted this to be. I think I will just return the Spyder and buy the other one. I'm not familiar with the software so I would like my first attempt to at least be based on accurate readings without having to split the atom.
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16165
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dropzone7 wrote:
Nashou66 wrote:
yepp it does suck if you got a bad one .I would suggest those who have it try it and see how it works you might be lucky and have a good one. I bought one just for the Greyscale calibration for dummies to compare to my Eye One display2LT and mine sucks. well so far i will try it again most likely on sunday.

Athanasios


Yeah but if I'm a greyscale "dummy" how will I know the difference? Perhaps ignorance is bliss? Confused


Lol I know what you mean because i am a greyscale dummy too, but you can tell when the probe is not right when its off by that much, my Spyder was showing the mids were wayyyyyy off on the reds but when i put up the internal stair step just to check it was more blue as the Eye One shows. So my spyder is way off on the reds.

Athanasios

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HV-MAN



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 18
Location: Brisbane, Australia


PostLink    Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ordered a spyder 2 on amazon lucky for me it was on back order so when I saw the update I cancelled the order... Now looking at the eye-one solution, now what is the difference between the eye-one display LT and the eye-one display 2? seems to be more of the later being offered....
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HV-MAN wrote:
I ordered a spyder 2 on amazon lucky for me it was on back order so when I saw the update I cancelled the order... Now looking at the eye-one solution, now what is the difference between the eye-one display LT and the eye-one display 2? seems to be more of the later being offered....

The software it comes with. These sensors are primarily meant for photographers so you get more software if you buy the more expensive packages. You don't need the more expensive software to use HCFR, but if the more expensive package does look useful to you for other things you do by all means go for it. Just make sure to first click through the links in the guide. Wink

Kal

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Fredrik



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 46
Location: Stockholm


PostLink    Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick question,

Just got a Spyder2, I heard about issues with it but it was really cheap and I couldn't get the LT localy without going for the Display2 package.
But I would like to confirm if the colorimeter has issues, so what would be the quickest way to see if the colorimeter is having problems ?
I don't have anyone that has another colorimeter or other sensor so the only option is to go to the shop I bought the spyder from.
They sell other sensors but it would be good with the quickest way to check the other senser with the current.
E.g. which measurement/s are usualy out of whack with the spyder2 ?
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fredrik wrote:
Quick question,

Just got a Spyder2, I heard about issues with it but it was really cheap and I couldn't get the LT localy without going for the Display2 package.
But I would like to confirm if the colorimeter has issues, so what would be the quickest way to see if the colorimeter is having problems ?
I don't have anyone that has another colorimeter or other sensor so the only option is to go to the shop I bought the spyder from.
They sell other sensors but it would be good with the quickest way to check the other senser with the current.
E.g. which measurement/s are usualy out of whack with the spyder2 ?

There's not one certain thing that isn't right with a lot of Spyder2s, it's just that in general you run the risk of getting one that's off by significant amounts when you measure and it'll be off across the scale. Though I have heard that the lower end is usually the worst, but that's probably because the low end is hard to read to begin with.

The only way to test it is to test against one that works and compare.




The Eye One Display 2 isn't a bad package either. It's only about $40-50 more than the Eye One Display LT and gives you a bunch of extra stuff if you're into photography.

I'll add it to the list too in case people can't find the cheaper one.

Kal

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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal,
I have only glanced at the primer, but great job! Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up

I was going to add that you should invite the Calman people over to this forum.
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spanky Ham wrote:
Kal,
I have only glanced at the primer, but great job! Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up

I was going to add that you should invite the Calman people over to this forum.

Already in progress. I'm in negotiations with them regarding a few things.

Kal

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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get them mixed up. Is it Calman or Accucal? I know Jeff from Accucal posts over on AVS. You might send an email over to Greg Rogers of Accupel and Widescreen Review. I think he finally went digital last year, but he may still have his CRT.
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delphiplasma



Joined: 06 May 2008
Posts: 14



PostLink    Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Just a quick question, regarding the setting of 'Black level' using the 'DVE' test pattern.

There are 3 stripes, One below video black, one just above video black and one for reference.

On the 'Dummies guide' it is suggested that the 'Black level' is adjusted so that the 1st stripe (Below video black) is invisible.
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but the commentator, on the 'DVE' disc, suggests that all 3 stripes should be visible!? the 1st stripe (Below video black) should just be barely visible. Have I heard this correctly? I am a bit mutton at the best of times!!

Thanks
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