CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

Meese · Joined: 11 Apr 2008 Posts: 48 Location: Minnesota

I am playing with a Denon DN-A7100 preamp, love the HDMI inputs (for my PS3) and overall design. I am needing some power to drive a set of 5 Velodyne DF-661 speakers.

I won't have the money for an amp for a few months, so I was wondering if I could get by just using the 5 channel analog inputs on my Pioneer AVR (it's 100x5). I am aware that both the Preamp and the AVR have volume levels, so I'd have to fiddle with that to find the right levels to set them at. Has anyone done this? My sub, a Sunfire TruSubwoofer, is self-powered, so no problems there.

Also looking for advice for a nice 5 (or 7) channel amplifier to drive these speakers. The Denon has XLR outputs, so XLR inputs would be great. I'm probably saying this to the wrong group, but I don't need anything overboard... with small kids in the house, I never listen to it all that loud! I'd love something in the $500-$1000 range, but could go a bit more if needed.

Thanks. Thumbs Up

Meese · Joined: 11 Apr 2008 Posts: 48 Location: Minnesota

On a side note, this amplifier looks intriguing power and price wise

http://www.emotiva.com/xpa5.html

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject:

If you don't have a lot of space then a 5 channel amp is the way to go, but why not consider getting three used 'pro' power amps? They rack mount, put out gobs of power, have XLR inputs and you'll have one spare channel. They also will most likely outlast consumer amps.

Check out QSC, Crown, Crest, etc. All can be had in used condition for cheap on eBay.

Meese · Joined: 11 Apr 2008 Posts: 48 Location: Minnesota

Nice idea... space is a concern I guess but that might work out.

I have access to a Crown Macro Reference E, it's rated at 760/w/channel... not sure my little Velodyne's would stand up to that power!

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject:

Whoa, nice amp!!!!!

I use 4 channel amps in my own HT called Inter M. Made in Korea, 150 watts per channel, they've been on 24/7 here for the last 5 years.

www.inter-m.com. Distribution is poor in the US for them, but google them and you'll find some dealers.

ecrabb · Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:28 pm Post subject:

I've got a couple of current-model Crown XLS 202's. At 300wpc into my 4-ohm M&K's, they play plenty loud and clean. They're amazing compared to the receiver's amps I was using (which was no slouch). I paid about $300 ea., but there's a dealer selling refurbs for about $200 on fleabay. New, they have excellent warranties. They do sound great. The only complaint I have is that because they're commercial gear designed for harsh environments, they have some pretty loud fans. I need to mod them to run way slower, but haven't gotten around to it, yet. It's also a good thing, because one of them has a little turn-off thump I need to send in to have repaired under warranty.

That said, the Emotiva at $799 looks like a damn good buy if it performs up to spec. If they had a 6-ch version that was close to that price, I'd be all over it. You're only talking about $160 or so per channel - which isn't much more than I paid for my Crowns. More power with lower THD numbers and no fans... What's not to like? Kal and I were talking about the Emotiva stuff in another thread if you want to look there. I hadn't even ever heard of it until he mentioned it as a reasonable-cost separates alternative to receiver power.

Speaker wattage question...

SC

Meese · Joined: 11 Apr 2008 Posts: 48 Location: Minnesota

So, for my poor man's interim solution, anyone have any feedback?

Person99 · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4901 Location: Flower Mound, TX

ecrabb · Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject:

Yeah, should work fine - like Dave says. If you don't ever listen very loud, you'll probably end up setting the volume level on the AVR at around 1/2. That'll probably give you a nice balance between little to no noise and enough amplification within the range of the attenuator on the prepro. What you could do to set it is, load up a loud scene in your player. Turn your AVR all the way down, turn the prepro up to -0db, then slowly turn up the AVR until it's about as loud as you'll ever want it. Done.

I hadn't seen that Denon Professional piece before. Nice. I've been looking at AVR's and had kind of written off separates because they're so damn expensive - usually about double a comparable AVR. But, that Denon Professional prepro is only a little more than $800 online. If they come out with an updated version with HDMI 1.3 and advanced codecs, I'd be seriously interested. How do you like it?

SC

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject:

ecrabb · Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject:

Curt, I think he meant the fans are loud. Wink

SC

Person99 · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4901 Location: Flower Mound, TX

Curt, what SC said. The commercial amps have loud fans that most HT folks would find offensive if they were sitting 6-8 feet from them.

ecrabb · Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:20 pm Post subject:

I don't really find them offensive as much as just annoying. Wink

Seriously - Dave's right - most commercial amps that have fans are annoying in a nice quiet HT environment. Mine are almost as loud as the G70 when I don't put a little cover piece in that section of the rack that blocks most of the sound. But, they really need to be in a separate room from the HT or modded to reduce or eliminate the fan noise. Most of the guys that use the Crown amps I use completely disable the fans or insert a thermo-switch to allow the fans on only in the event the amp gets too warm. Given the relatively light duty they see in HT, they rarely even get warm, let alone hot enough to do any damage.

The fans are really there for commercial use. These amps typically drive large monitors, installed in a road rack in a hot smoky bar or in the hot summer sun on a 95-degree day sandwiched between a bunch more amps all pumping out the heat.

Running even large floor-standing speakers in an air-conditioned HT is a walk in the park for a prosound amp.

SC

Person99 · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4901 Location: Flower Mound, TX

Point taken. Smile

I didn't know that they would not cook with the fans disabled. Interesting option.

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:39 pm Post subject:

ecrabb · Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:05 pm Post subject:

Your Inter M amps must be a lot quieter. The Crown's are multi-speed and they range from mildly annoying at normal operating temps (low speed) to amazingly obnoxious (full speed). I've never heard them run at anything besides slow (still annoying) during normal operation. I've heard the fans at full-speed only during power-on test. Man, are they ever obnoxious at that speed.

SC

Meese · Joined: 11 Apr 2008 Posts: 48 Location: Minnesota

macgyver655 · Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 8508

Interesting on the fan noise. I'm running QSC's and I'm occasionally putting my hand near the fan to see if it,s running because I don't hear it.

Meese · Joined: 11 Apr 2008 Posts: 48 Location: Minnesota

perisoft · Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Posts: 2920 Location: Ithaca, NY

I've got a technics 5.1 receiver that I use to drive my mains... it's got a fan sticking out of the back, and it gets hot enough to fry bacon - probably literally. If you accidentally lean on it, you go "Yeaaugh!" in a second or two. Oddly, that's apparently normal for these things, and it's still kicking after 5 years of having the ever-loving hell pounded out of it by loud trance music.

Obviously not pro gear. Very Happy

Still, it's quiet, and it does a passable job of driving my Cerwin Vegas at 4ohms (They're rated 250 watts @ 4ohms).

I have a pseudo-separate setup, where I use my best kit for the fronts and drive the rest with separate amps - one for the center, one for the surrounds, and a whole crew of them for the subs. This seems to work reasonably well, though I haven't been in a kick-ass HT to compare. I know it matches or exceeds almost all of the commercial theaters I've been in.

If you want a commercial theater nightmare - I watched the latest Harry Potter in a locally owned theater that's usually fantastic. But they put in another, smaller screen - which is fine, and the sound is good as those guys care about sound. But there was a big f*ck-off HVAC vent in the middle of the room, which periodically turned on and made a jet-engine kind of sound.

So you'd have Harry Potter just about to get all mushy with some chick, and it's all quiet as they get close, and then

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Wonderful stuff.