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PR650 (1996) vs i1 Pro (2 years old), Check it out Doc !!!

 
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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:17 am    Post subject: PR650 (1996) vs i1 Pro (2 years old), Check it out Doc !!! Reply with quote


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Well I was given a Photo Research PR 650 to play with about a couple months ago.

It's a 1996 vintage with a MS 75 lens. When I fist got it it had no power supply and no Interface
for the PC, and most importantly no original calibration file or restore program.

These units have a PCI memory card with all the info of the cali file and software on it.
The card and PR650 are tied to each other and the Probe is useless with out it.

So I had it for a while as I waited for us to find a power supply and USB interface.
After some time the items came and then all I needed was some time for me to get to test how
close this was to my known calibrated i1 Pro. In my curiosity to see how this probe worked I found
a 12 volt power supply and powered it up, aimed it some lights and pressed the measure button.
It took some readings and registered then in the display. I looked around at the probe and pulled out the
PCMI card. In a second I said uh OH!!!! on the card it says to not remove while powered on!! Oh sh*t!!!
I put it back in and now the card was corrupted and probe was dead. WTF !! Why would they not put a warning
near the entry for the card!! I would have seen it and not messed it up!!!
So now the scramble to find the cali file since this probe was not mine. I called the owner and he tried to
contact the original owner, no dice!! So i call PR to see if they have it, they do!! Yes!!!
After a few back and forth phone calls the deal was made and all i waited for was them to call back for payment.
i get a call the next day and they tell me they can't do it since they no longer service old probes!!!!
Also they will not send me the file!!!!! WTF !!!! What good does it do them to have a file that only this priobe can use?
With out I am done, i felt horrible i broke the probe that wasn't mine.

So i waited a few days and sent out one more e-mail. I got a call a few days later and I made a deal and got the file and program to load it!!!

Whheeeeeeoooouuuuuu!!!!!!

So i finally got a chance to tonight to play with it. I had to figure out setting in Calman to get the best performance along with
messing around with positioning. low light is not handled well with this probe as is the same with the i1 pro. Colorimeters do better at low light levels. So i had to only read 10% and higer. the probe pout the 100% values at 0% if i used that
parameter. I also noticed i got best results setting the exposure time to 4 seconds , auto would not read 10% and 5 seconds would not read 100%?? why??? It put a 0 for the value there.

So once i got it to behave i did a few runs of the i1 Pro to make use the PJ was stable.

Then i did a few runs with the PR 650. Looks pretty good i think for a 15 year old probe last calibrated in 2003.
I would love it if Craig would give me some tips on the probe .
one thing i could not figure out was the focusing, it seams like i could not see a clear image through the view finder.

Well here are the screen shots of Calman

i1 pro



PR 650




Athanasios

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dochlywd




Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's Alive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes! Yes! Yes!!! You rock Athy!!!!!

Thanks so much for following through and getting this thing back up and running!!!!! If you can make it to the 3D meet in Chicago, then you are going to have to fly in here to the LOU and drive up with me!!! I could use a quick 101 on what you will have learned until that point. Besides, it would be nice to finally sit down and have a beer with a good dude that I've only gotten to know via computer and phone!!!!!

Thanks!!

Doc
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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dochlywd wrote:
It's Alive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes! Yes! Yes!!! You rock Athy!!!!!

Thanks so much for following through and getting this thing back up and running!!!!! If you can make it to the 3D meet in Chicago, then you are going to have to fly in here to the LOU and drive up with me!!! I could use a quick 101 on what you will have learned until that point. Besides, it would be nice to finally sit down and have a beer with a good dude that I've only gotten to know via computer and phone!!!!!

Thanks!!

Doc


No problem Doc, it was a long road to get this. i am just glad I got it up and running.
I need to get a smaller PS for this as the one i am using now is about 1 pound. Plus Id like to
try and find the proper connector to use it, I could always just cut and splice it together.


It is a bit finicky reading low light , I think this is where it be best to profile my Chroma 5 to the PR 650 for the low light levels.

I will try to use this for doing the greyscale and CMS on the blend with out any profiling first to see
how it does with greyscale and CMS compared to the other probes I have. it might be good for one or the other and then will
help me decide which to use for the best results. I have a feeling it be bset to use the PR 650 for the CMS and then profile the Chroma 5 to it for the greyscale. just because I cant get below 10% readings.

Spectros have a hard time reading low light levels compared to tri stimulus probes like the Display 2, chroma 5 or DTP 64.


Hopefully I can get away on the week end of the meet. Still working short a cook. i might be able to
get away for saturday and sunday but have to leave sunday night of the meet.

Chris at Spectracal said they can compare it to their reference probe but have to build a rig.

here was his reply to me.

We can likely do some testing, but we can't do it immediately and would need to charge you some sort of fee. Primarily that would be to cover the costs of building an appropriate jig for your meter, since we can't service PR meters we don't have a set-up in our calibration lab for them.

Maybe we can have Craig compare it to his?

One thing for sure is it does have better repeatability compared to my i1-Pro.

Athanasios

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WTS




Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1276
Location: Calgary


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey glad to hear you got it working.......again. OKay this time don't pull the memory card when powered up.LOL.
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Walter
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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WTS wrote:
Hey glad to hear you got it working.......again. OKay this time don't pull the memory card when powered up.LOL.


LOL, yeah...But now I have the calibration file and loader program so I am good Wink

Athanasios

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dochlywd




Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri


PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, if you can make the 3D meet, then you will just have to bring it with you and I'm sure Craig will run a quick side by side to compare. And if we both have our computers with us, then can't he even profile ours to his??


Doc
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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dochlywd wrote:
Well, if you can make the 3D meet, then you will just have to bring it with you and I'm sure Craig will run a quick side by side to compare. And if we both have our computers with us, then can't he even profile ours to his??


Doc


I agree, we could profile our PR 650 to his.

I also just got a license key from Tom Huffman for my Chromapure
Pro program. I will play with that possibly tomorrow and test it with that.

I had some time this week end to play with it and profile my Chroma 5 to it.
I found that to best have the profile be close is to also set the exposure value the same for
both Probes. The PR 650 worked best for me on my screen with a 3 second exposure.
Then With the profiled Chroma 5 I found it was closest to the PR 650 at a 3 second exposure as well.

With Low light level displays it works best as close to the screen as possible.

I also tried it facing the PJ from the same location as i had it for facing the screen. The xy values were very close but i did not expect the Y value to be so much higher. I did this not using a PC program and only the display on the PR 650
facing the screen I got a little over 6.6ftl facing the PJ i got 390 ftl's !!! I did not put a filter on it but the x,y values were pretty close off at the .00x place.

What does all this mean? Not sure since its the first PR 65x probe I have used so it might not be working properly.

I wish I had a manual for it.

I also think I found a bug in CalMan, When doing the pre calibration capture after it does the greyscale reading and sets the RGB and Gamma curves it takes another 100% white reading for the gamut. After it does this the lowest % reading drops to 0 for the gamma and RGB graphs .

I have to try this again and document it more accurately and post it on the CalMan site.

I am eager to try this with Chrompure to see if it is supported, Tom said he only wrote the code for the PR 655 , not sure how different the older probe is but we'll find out tomorrow if it is compatible.

Athanasios

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Noveltone




Joined: 16 Mar 2021
Posts: 2
Location: Philadelphia, PA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello folks, I’m really interested in this old thread because I'm trying to measure spectrum and luminance in buildings. I can spend hundreds but not thousands. I have some neat old PR instruments using PMT detectors fixed and running. Not likely accurate but close enough for me. Just recently I got an old PR-650 probe but its card is also corrupt, like Athanasios’ some ten years ago. I really like the way the Pritchard optics provide positive confirmation of the measuring field. I have contacted Photo Research Corp but no help. They have some really nice current offerings, but all in the thousands. Would some kind soul be willing to please send me the cal file and loader program?

I do have the manual for it, I'd scan it if someone requests. My ultimate hope/plan is to output spectrum data to a 8" tablet pc running the PR software, then stick it to the top of 650. First, however I've got to revive this old probe. Can someone please help me out with this ? Thank you sincerely!

Collin.
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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noveltone wrote:
Hello folks, I’m really interested in this old thread because I'm trying to measure spectrum and luminance in buildings. I can spend hundreds but not thousands. I have some neat old PR instruments using PMT detectors fixed and running. Not likely accurate but close enough for me. Just recently I got an old PR-650 probe but its card is also corrupt, like Athanasios’ some ten years ago. I really like the way the Pritchard optics provide positive confirmation of the measuring field. I have contacted Photo Research Corp but no help. They have some really nice current offerings, but all in the thousands. Would some kind soul be willing to please send me the cal file and loader program?

I do have the manual for it, I'd scan it if someone requests. My ultimate hope/plan is to output spectrum data to a 8" tablet pc running the PR software, then stick it to the top of 650. First, however I've got to revive this old probe. Can someone please help me out with this ? Thank you sincerely!

Collin.


No way to get he calibration file as its specific for each unit. I begged PR to get mine and promised to complain about the results if it wasn't a perfect calibration.

Back then It cost me 150$ I think.

Good Luck

Athanasios

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Noveltone




Joined: 16 Mar 2021
Posts: 2
Location: Philadelphia, PA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Athanasios, thank you for this reply! It makes sense that it’s specific to each unit. It’s helpful to know what kind of cost to expect if they end up responding. I’d pay it if it works. As it is I’m building that RS-232 interface cable from scratch. Thankfully they provided the schematic in the manual. If I get it going I’ll share details Smile

Collin
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lessbones




Joined: 22 Jun 2022
Posts: 2



PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ugh--

I now find myself in the exact same position as a few of you-- Bought a PR-650 off ebay in insanely good condition, but without the RAM card, and without properly doing research first. Called PR and they said absolutely no way they can do anything about it except trade up for %15 off of a $15K instrument....

Really looking just to play around with this thing, did anybody ever figure out a solution? Or even know what TYPE of RAM card it is? I would take anybody's calibration file, realizing it won't be actually relevant, just to mess around for the sake of messing around with it.
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17844
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi!

The Photo Research PR 650 is a colorimeter, and like all colorimeters it will drift. What "condition" the unit appears to be in physically doesn't matter. It will have drifted and given the age of these units likely quite a bit, enough that you wouldn't want to to use it. So it needs to be sent off to be recalibrated, assuming that's even possible.

I recommend just going with a known good/fast/recent meter so that you know it's accurate, like ours here:
http://www.curtpalme.com/ChromaPure_EyeOneDisplay3.shtm

Cheers!

Kal

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lessbones




Joined: 22 Jun 2022
Posts: 2



PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, totally understand all that. I've got an i1D3, as well as i1pro1, 2, and plenty of other devices, so this is completely just for fun--
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kal
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Posts: 17844
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good news then! Happy calibrating.

Kal

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