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Cine 9 ni video,

 
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jaredjaric




Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 228
Location: Philippines


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:55 pm    Post subject: Cine 9 ni video, Reply with quote


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I have a new issue again,

My Cinema9 is being used as a test bed , and was working with all original barco boards two weeks ago.

I always need this PJ to be in good normal condition to test boards and to harvest parts.

I left it off for two weeks to attend to my regular day to day activities.

But previously or two months ago ,this unit has a tendency to have no video , even if there are no scan fail indications.
The G2 diagnoistics will have no red led and the rgb switcher board will respond to my remote and have green leds on and off.
The solution was to keep alternately swapping the g2 diagnostic board to get it working.
And so i thought it was all good to go. i used it for the next two weeks to check on my DIY splitters without suffering any shorts or scan fail. Then put back the original Barco splitter, double checked for the next succeeding days that all is normal, then left it off for the next two weeks until now.

I have swapped out all the HV parts, and smps, and tried on another new barco splitter. Tried the g2 switch again and again.

Decibel had an almost similar issue, for his situation it was the eht board. I have four good eht swapped in and still no go.

it is as if the three crts are not connected to the splitter, though the splitter's sub board does measure 33.7 volts, and no red leds on all eht boards used.

Hope the experts can help me on this.
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24296
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you need to figure out if you have high voltage. Do you hear the HV crackle when you turn on the set? If you do, and it stays on, then you have a video or G2 or controller board problem. Right now it's too vague of a description for me to be helpful.
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jaredjaric




Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 228
Location: Philippines


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curt Palme wrote:
you need to figure out if you have high voltage. Do you hear the HV crackle when you turn on the set? If you do, and it stays on, then you have a video or G2 or controller board problem. Right now it's too vague of a description for me to be helpful.



Yes , there seems to have HV , as i can hear the usual crackle and have swapped out quads , splitters and eht boards.
Plus i was able to measure 33.7 V Dc on the coaxial cable from the splitter mini board each time on each swap,
the coax cable works as a HV probe i believe.

i have a 919 controller board,
I swapped out the controller board but it got worse, would not start up, so i went back to the original.
i swapped out g2 boards also, the rgb boards i have not,
the neck boards were from a working projector and was working consistently two weeks ago.

I can be sure that it was left working prior to this.
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jaredjaric




Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 228
Location: Philippines


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:51 pm    Post subject: going at it again Reply with quote

i am going back at this cinemax again,
There is just no video output,
I have swapped out the controller board, still no video.
swapped out four controller boards already but still no.
smps swapped just for the sake of it, still no video.

EHTs , quads , splitters, swapped, still no video.
High voltage measured at the splitter is 33.7v dc. which means no eht fail.
Hiss and crackle on start up means no high voltage failure.

swapped the focus boards still no video.

G2 board , which is the suspected board, still no video.

all leds on G2 boards are green and lit, and no scan fail.
H board no red leds,
V sync board no red leds.
checked 17 volts on smps.

press on the remote ,adjustment mode, still no video.


I do not know what is next,
the neck boards were swapped before this issue and was working well prior to this issue.
I am looking into swapping the neck boards , but i highly doubt all three boards would have video amp failure all at the same time.

Hoping someone can help me on this no video issue.
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24296
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think at this point you need extender cards. I have had the RGB switcher and quad decoder boards fail, causing no video. Assuming that the HV starts up and stays up, then I'd look at a video fault.

(make sure the HV is staying up, if it shuts down, that's a lot more quiet of the HV crackle than when it turns on).

Since I am sending you boards, I should have a pair of extender boards that I can sell you for cheap for the boards in the card cage, to bring them up out of the chassis to test the various voltages and waveforms on them.

I'm also assuming that the red scan fail isn't on, and that the LEDs on the HV board aren't on?
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Hulio




Joined: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 469
Location: Belgium


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are not running without the jumper on J5 connector of the RGB driver board, do you ?
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jaredjaric




Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 228
Location: Philippines


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curt Palme wrote:
I think at this point you need extender cards. I have had the RGB switcher and quad decoder boards fail, causing no video. Assuming that the HV starts up and stays up, then I'd look at a video fault.

(make sure the HV is staying up, if it shuts down, that's a lot more quiet of the HV crackle than when it turns on).

Since I am sending you boards, I should have a pair of extender boards that I can sell you for cheap for the boards in the card cage, to bring them up out of the chassis to test the various voltages and waveforms on them.

I'm also assuming that the red scan fail isn't on, and that the LEDs on the HV board aren't on?



I have a tester clipped on the splitter where the coaxial cables connect, it monitors any voltage drop (33.7vDC) and yes ,the voltage never dropped.

The scan fail is not lit and no red leds on the hv boards,and v boards.

And yes, i would want the extender cards to test points on the boards,this would be the best tool to have in maintaining the Barco Pjs.
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jaredjaric




Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 228
Location: Philippines


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hulio wrote:
You are not running without the jumper on J5 connector of the RGB driver board, do you ?


i did run it with the jumpers on, boards were from seos 909s with soft edge option.
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jaredjaric




Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 228
Location: Philippines


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just swapped three rgb driver boards , still no video.

leds still indicates everything is normal.
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24296
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you look into the lenses with the lights off, do you see a flickering at the very bottom or top of the tubes? That's the AKB line, usually just off the surface of the tube, but you should see a very faint glow, indicating that the HV and deflection is OK.
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jaredjaric




Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 228
Location: Philippines


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curt Palme wrote:
If you look into the lenses with the lights off, do you see a flickering at the very bottom or top of the tubes? That's the AKB line, usually just off the surface of the tube, but you should see a very faint glow, indicating that the HV and deflection is OK.


there is no flickering at the top or bottom, it is all dim, with the lights out and lenses off.

I hope it is not another bad splitter?, i have run out of splitters if this is the case.

And my DIY splitter is really bad and have not gotten around starting on a better one.
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jaredjaric




Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 228
Location: Philippines


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

New developments , things are getting worse but at least leading somewhere.

swapped in a new H board just for the sake of it, arcing on either blue and green tube face.

led D13 on eht board lit up, Eht fail! HV drop.
restarted three to four times , arcing persisted on tube face and HV arrester on neck board.
and eht failure each time,


took out all g2 plugs on the splitter , Restart again.

All came to normal, no eht fail, no HV drop (33.7K DC) measured on the splitter.

Plug each g2 cable on the splitter one by one, only the red is causing the eht fail.
But now,
Still no video with green and blue g2 cables connected to the splitter, but all is normal on g2 board.

Do i need another set of neck boards?
Just swapped these in due to G2 retrace lines on the CRT raster.
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24296
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is really strange. The only way that I've seen arcing on a tube face, or within a tube is if a tube has lost the vacuum, but in that case, the HV would never start up, as the EHT board would see the cracked tube as a dead short, and then shut the HV down before it ever got close to 34Kv.

The alternative is if the HV is too high, causing arcing within the tube, even if the vacuum is OK. It would have to be well over 40Kv though for that to happen.

A bad CRT neck board can cause excessive current in a tube, but that generally would shut the HV down as well to prevent tube damage. If your HV is too high, that's generally cause by the white wire not being soldered correctly on the HV splitter. If that wire becomes disconnected, then the HV will be uncontrollable, and shoot to well above 40Kv, causing arcing.
Take off all 3 CRT neck boards completely, remove them from the set, and turn the projector on. If you see arcing on the CRT pins, then you have excessive HV. Don't turn the set on until I send you the replacement HV parts that have been tested. You can damage the tubes or other boards in the set.
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jaredjaric




Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 228
Location: Philippines


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curt Palme wrote:
This is really strange. The only way that I've seen arcing on a tube face, or within a tube is if a tube has lost the vacuum, but in that case, the HV would never start up, as the EHT board would see the cracked tube as a dead short, and then shut the HV down before it ever got close to 34Kv.

The alternative is if the HV is too high, causing arcing within the tube, even if the vacuum is OK. It would have to be well over 40Kv though for that to happen.

A bad CRT neck board can cause excessive current in a tube, but that generally would shut the HV down as well to prevent tube damage. If your HV is too high, that's generally cause by the white wire not being soldered correctly on the HV splitter. If that wire becomes disconnected, then the HV will be uncontrollable, and shoot to well above 40Kv, causing arcing.
Take off all 3 CRT neck boards completely, remove them from the set, and turn the projector on. If you see arcing on the CRT pins, then you have excessive HV. Don't turn the set on until I send you the replacement HV parts that have been tested. You can damage the tubes or other boards in the set.




I pulled out the g2 board ,plus two more G2 boards that were used to test on this Cine9.

and installed each of these boards to my working 909, not one of these boards worked on my 909.

You are right Curt , the g2 board is causing the no video. These made the same effect on my 909.


Can a bad neck board destroy the g2 board?
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jaredjaric




Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 228
Location: Philippines


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

after 7 months,

This other cinemax is now fixed.

There was a crack in the red CRt, hidden iniside the focus/ deflection Unit.

Very excited and planning to replace the Barco tubes with rebuilt simulation grade CRTs,

Looking for offers and suggestions for CRTs source.



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